Can some one look at this and tell me why i cant set the intonation

[BowerR64]

I have 2 guitars with the same bridge and i cant get the orange one intonated. The D string saddle is as far forward as it wil go and its still flat by about 20-30 cents. I cant get it to move forward anymore it hits the body and falls off the bridge base.

 

The blue one is setup perfect.

 

 

When i measure the scale from the nut to the bridge they look the same, i dont get it.

[BowerR64]

I thought it was routed wrong at first but when i measure them they are the same.

[TheBigScaryBat]

Do you have the same gauge strings on both?

If not, that could be the problem.



It also looks like you have the bridge saddle-height set-up much higher on the orange guitar. If you lower them to a height similar to the height on the blue guitar, it may fix the problem.

Are those Steinberger "Spirits"?

[BowerR64]

Well it was the same way before i raised the string height, i thought raising it might fix it but it didnt help any.

They are both spirits.

They are both the same guage strings...009s

[d_dave_c]

Maybe the nut needs to be filed. It looks like the A string is a lot farther forward, too. I'd look at where the strings sit on the nut, if you haven't done that.

[Ronzo II]

I'd try bringing the saddles as far back from the zero fret as possible, tune to concert pitch, then work the saddles forward to intonate.

The shorter the string, the shorter the distance from the saddle to the twelfth fret. The distance from the zero fret to the twelfth fret is a constant. It's possible that it's impossible to intonate with the saddle that far forward.

String heights matter, too. Are they the same on both of your Steinbergers?

[mc5nrg]

Try a different string.

[mattburnside]

Originally posted by mc5nrg Try a different string.

 

 

Yeah, every once in a blue moon I'll get a duff string that just will not intonate.

[BowerR64]

Some one else mentioned the strings on the steinberger site but i cant see how that would make it not intonate. Ill have to try that, they are the stock "made in korea" strings, who knows what brand they are.

Thanks for the info!

[555]

It's either the strings, or your pickup is too close to the strings.

[BowerR64]

Man you guys are good, i would of never thought a string could do this. I dont see how, what causes the string to do that?

I put on an older set of strings that i know are a good brand and it looks good and i got it intonated fine with all the saddles centered on the plate. I have plenty of room both ways to readjust it.

OK now that ive learned somthing today, other then the stock spirit strings suck. Would a heavier guage put the intonation back further or closer?

So my quastion is, a heavier guage changes the intonation how? will it put the intonation sharp or flat?

[fishfartz]

Originally posted by BowerR64 Man you guys are good, i would of never thought a string could do this. I dont see how, what causes the string to do that? I put on an older set of strings that i know are a good brand and it looks good and i got it intonated fine with all the saddles centered on the plate. I have plenty of room both ways to readjust it. OK now that ive learned somthing today, other then the stock spirit strings suck. Would a heavier guage put the intonation back further or closer? So my quastion is, a heavier guage changes the intonation how? will it put the intonation sharp or flat?

good thing it was just dead strings causing your problems this time, thats an easy fix


if it happens again and you are having trouble finding the reason - before you try filing frets or anything drastic like that, check the neck relief. its a simple procedure (to adjust) but you should know what you are doing first. id suggest having a tech or knowledgable friend show you the first time (how to check to see IF it even needs adjusting).

sometimes a guitars neck will bow either this way:

(I

thats a side-view. the "I" is the neck going up & down. so the top of that little "I" in the "pic" would be the headstock. see how the neck bowed? thats got too much relief and needs to be tightened. it is pretty common, especially after being exposed to differences in humidity or dropping string size a bit. theres not enough pull by the tuned-strings to keep the neck straight. this problem called a "bowed neck" usually causes the action to seem unusually high.


here is the oppisite bow:

)I

same theory but the guitars neck has "back-bowed". this will cause tuning problems most notably certain frets may seem dead. if you pick a note and its a dead "plink" with no sustain it may be from back-bow. you can pick a low note but due to the way the bow is angled the string will quickly vibrate against a higher fret causing the dead note. if thats the case the neck is too tight and needs to be loosened.


there are many other factors that should be checked as well with dead-note problems. it could be many things including bad frets or frets not fully leveled. this is just another thing to check, because if the neck needs adjusted either way you can have tuning issues and intonation issues.

i dont feel like explaining it in full here partly because you make make things much worse if you adjust the neck while it does not need adjusting. but once you learn the proper way to check neck relief then you will know which way the neck needs to go. there are some sites on the net witch pics to explain how to check.

i just wanted to throw this out as another option, something to check for before doing any fretwork or anything like that.

[Kevman]

Thats one of the coolest stickers ever.

[BowerR64]

Originally posted by fishfartz good thing it was just dead strings causing your problems this time, thats an easy fix if it happens again and you are having trouble finding the reason - before you try filing frets or anything drastic like that, check the neck relief. its a simple procedure (to adjust) but you should know what you are doing first. id suggest having a tech or knowledgable friend show you the first time (how to check to see IF it even needs adjusting). sometimes a guitars neck will bow either this way: (I thats a side-view. the "I" is the neck going up & down. so the top of that little "I" in the "pic" would be the headstock. see how the neck bowed? thats got too much relief and needs to be tightened. it is pretty common, especially after being exposed to differences in humidity or dropping string size a bit. theres not enough pull by the tuned-strings to keep the neck straight. this problem called a "bowed neck" usually causes the action to seem unusually high. here is the oppisite bow: )I same theory but the guitars neck has "back-bowed". this will cause tuning problems most notably certain frets may seem dead. if you pick a note and its a dead "plink" with no sustain it may be from back-bow. you can pick a low note but due to the way the bow is angled the string will quickly vibrate against a higher fret causing the dead note. if thats the case the neck is too tight and needs to be loosened. there are many other factors that should be checked as well with dead-note problems. it could be many things including bad frets or frets not fully leveled. this is just another thing to check, because if the neck needs adjusted either way you can have tuning issues and intonation issues. i dont feel like explaining it in full here partly because you make make things much worse if you adjust the neck while it does not need adjusting. but once you learn the proper way to check neck relief then you will know which way the neck needs to go. there are some sites on the net witch pics to explain how to check. i just wanted to throw this out as another option, something to check for before doing any fretwork or anything like that.

Yeah i check all that first, thats why i was so puzzled why i couldnt set the intonation. I really never thought strings could do that. Really weird

[BowerR64]

Originally posted by Kevman Thats one of the coolest stickers ever.

 

 

Wich one? The pinup sticker or the "made whole grain" sticker?

[greystoke 2]

I was gonna agree with whoever mentioned nut issue. Cripes! You mean you did'nt check obvious 1st!?? Besides - you think intonating a solid fixed bridge w/adjustible saddles is tough...LUXURY! Try a archtop guitar with a fixed saddle wooden bridge and tailpiece ala early Gibson ES's among others.
From experience, I can tell you that understanding the fundamentals of set-up can save ya money and a mistake of getting rid of a guitar for the wrong reasons[frustration/impatience] I know...It only cost me a late '60s Gibson L4C
J. Smith 3/4 "one-off" Custom that I've never seen a copy of since. That stupidity cost me mucho dinero.

Greystoke, the chump:rolleyes: