Ideas to get a good heavy sound

[ArrMatey]

I am recording tuesday two sets of guitars for a song:

1 peavey 5150 with a 4x12' cabinet (marshall)

1 mesa boogie dual rectifier with same cabinet.

 

I was wondering if anyone had any extra ideas to fatten up the sound on recording. I'm gonna double track each of these guitars and then have another track for leads but I was just wondering if people had any ideas EQ or effects wise?

Does the reverb help that much or not?

Or is there any special mic position I should try?

 

Thanks

 

Emre

[Kiwiburger]

I would track with no effects - leave reverb for the mix. Consider running both amps simultaneously with a spitter box, and put a couple of mic's on each. Find the best sounding cones in each cabinet. Maybe a 57 straight onto the centre of the cone, and another angled and more onto the edge.

 

Don't worry about bleed - you can have the two amps side by side. Between the four mic's, you would be able to choose or mix some useful tones. Maybe create a stereo mix if you want.

 

Not sure how useful room mic's would be to you - you could add a couple for options.

 

You might even want to capture a clean DI track, for extra reamping or amp sim options as well. Heavy guitars can often suit DI.

 

Plenty of other options too. Some people like condensors on guitar cabs. I've been happy with my NTK on guitars.

[The_Idiom]

 

Originally posted by Kiwiburger I would track with no effects - leave reverb for the mix. Consider running both amps simultaneously with a spitter box, and put a couple of mic's on each. Find the best sounding cones in each cabinet. Maybe a 57 straight onto the centre of the cone, and another angled and more onto the edge. Don't worry about bleed - you can have the two amps side by side. Between the four mic's, you would be able to choose or mix some useful tones. Maybe create a stereo mix if you want. Not sure how useful room mic's would be to you - you could add a couple for options. You might even want to capture a clean DI track, for extra reamping or amp sim options as well. Heavy guitars can often suit DI. Plenty of other options too. Some people like condensors on guitar cabs. I've been happy with my NTK on guitars.

 

 

 

 

adding to your 4 mic idea... i was once told to get a thick but defined guitar sound mic all 4 speakers of a 4x12 but delay each one slightly different and pan... also mic each speaker in a different spot

 

i haven;t tried it yet, give it a shot

 

Brandon

[Phil O'Keefe]

Kiwi, they might only have one cabinet... at least that's the impression I got from reading The_Idiom's post.

 

I do agree with Kiwi - kill the 'verb and save it for the mixdown. I also agree that it's beneficial to listen to each individual speaker in a multi-speaker cabinet to find the "best" one.

 

As for mics, the SM57 is tried and true on guitar cabs. Do you have anything else available? I'm a big fan of Audix mics on guitar cabinets... especially the D2 and i5. Also, the Sennheiser 609 can be cool on amps too. I would probably lean towards the '57 or an Audix on the Dual Rectifier tracks, with the (somewhat darker sounding) 609 on the (generally brighter sounding) 5150.

 

I normally start with the mic in close - a couple of inches or so - and near the edge of the speaker cone, but angled inwards somewhat towards the center of the dustcap (IOW, center of the speaker). In many cases, that gives me a good balance of fullness and brightness. Remember, closer to the edge of the speaker is generally rounder / darker, and closer to the center is brighter... so knowing that, you can play with the positioning and get what you're after.

 

Don't be afraid to mess with the amp controls to get the tone you want happening in the room first... no matter what mic positioning you use, or what mics, IMO, the sound has to "be there" from the amplifier / speakers first.

 

When layering tracks, try one with each amp.. and maybe different guitars if you have them available. Also try different amp settings as well as possibly LESS distortion on one track or the other. Many people make the mistake of thinking you have to dime the gain on the amp to get a raging tone, but while distortion amount / type is a personal taste thing, I often find that less is needed than you might think. And if one is raging and fairly dark (Dual Rectifiers can be pretty dark sounding), but you've lost a little definition, a second, somewhat cleaner (relatively speaking) track can add some of that back to the sound.

 

I also frequently use an additional condenser mic further out (4'-12', depending on what we're after) for some "room tone" and early reflections. I nearly always print that to a second track, and sometimes I'll time align it with the close mic(s) (I ALWAYS check phase ), but sometimes I actually want it a bit late - using it more as an ambience track / effect for the room reflections.

 

I also like ribbon mics on guitar cabs. BTW, what mics DO you have at your disposal for this recording session?

[Kiwiburger]

Ah .. didn't see the "same cabinet" comment. It might be a stereo cabinet - in which case both amps could still be used ...

 

Probably there will be enough choice with the different guitars and different takes.

 

I like to use dual amps or dual speakers for getting big stereo sounds out of single takes. Sometimes even an acoustic guitar with a magnetic pickup for an electric sound.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Kiwiburger Ah .. didn't see the "same cabinet" comment. It might be a stereo cabinet - in which case both amps could still be used ... Yes, I thought of that too, and assuming the proper impedance settings on the amps are available to match each stereo side, that would be a good option to consider. Probably there will be enough choice with the different guitars and different takes. I think so. A few guitars, a couple amps and a good (but only one) cab, and you can still get a wide range of tones and sounds. Not to mention using different mics, preamps and mic placements... I like to use dual amps or dual speakers for getting big stereo sounds out of single takes. Sometimes even an acoustic guitar with a magnetic pickup for an electric sound. Another good "acoustic" trick is to stick a mic on the electric player's strings, and mic the electric guitar acoustically . You usually have to isolate the amp relative to the guitarist's position, but printing that to a seperate track and blending it in can add a lot of presence and definition to a distorted guitar track. And of course, printing multiple amps on a single part / take has worked well for a lot of guitarists and producers / engineers - SRV and Billy Gibbons come immediately to mind as examples of guitarists who frequently utilized that technique. I've even been known to go so far as to print an amp or two, with multiple mics PLUS record a POD and a DI channel for later amp sim plug-in and / or reamp use.

[ArrMatey]

hey everyone, thanks for the tip. I believe it will be 2 cabs since each head will have its own cab.

The mics I have for this are a few SE electronics, some shure drum mic kit (including an sm57) and c414s. I am doing this as part our school project and we have a few cool things to work with.

(don't wanna brag about it but the drums and bass will be recorded through a neve VR while the guitars will be done elsewhere through an SSL)

I will provide pics when it's done. Thanks for all the input everyone.

And thanks for the "less heavy is better" idea. I'll have a go with that.

[TonyCrazyMan]

I'll try to help you out here. Think ultra big! Think layers!

 

Start off with a guitar with fat powerful sound. Choose a guitar that sounds deep, for instance a good Gibson Les Pual or a Fender Stratocaster. I use a Fender Richie Sambora USA stratocaster that I think sounds great! I boost the mid 9dB on that. Then I take a tube screamer Ibanez TS9DX and power that with a good battery to make it as defined as I can for the drive part of the sound. Then I take a good heavy amp, like for instance a Marshall JCM series amp, if I have two avialable I take two. I mostly do this because of the response and the heat that the tubes create. (I go with a 50 watter and use a breakdown box, the volume is pretty high to drive those tubes) Then I use two big cabs with vintage celestion speakers. The distortion is set to mid levels in the amps. In the signal chain I then add a stereo DSP engine with compression and reverb. This makes it really fat! I then record each cab with X/Y micing technique, so four good michrophones are needed. I record 4 tracks. What I'll do in the sequencer is to copy these 4 tracks to 8 tracks and put compression and reverb send from them. On the right side I add a delay of about 9 to 15 ms as insert effect. I leave the original "dry" 4 tracks panned center and four tracks panned 100% left and four tracks panned 100% right. I also add an EQ insert effect on all these compressed tracks where I remove the mids and lower the highs marginally to taste. Then I play the song and increase the fader leves of the compressed tracks until it is wide and fat enough. Then I group these channels into one fader and put them all in a folder, for being able to mix them easier.

 

This should create a very heavy sound man but it takes 12 channels to get there...! From there I usually "mix to taste". I might add some tape saturation on the group if I want a softer rock'n roll ZZ-top kind of sound or if the guitar is put in the background and sometimes when I go to the extremes I really put a stereo effect on it too hehe. I think big and when it comes to guitars I think that works great!