Best gear to record vocals & Keyboard

[Floridafred]

I want to record my PSR3000 keyboard with my vocals. What do you think the best setup would be. Well, maybe not the best but a darn good setup that does not have a insurmountable learning curve. I am kind of new at this. I can do it in my computer or not. The end result is the guiding factor here. I want to be able to burn demo CD's. I have not established a budget for this as I have no idea at all of the cost.

 

Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated and will give me a starting point to do my research. At this point I don't even know where to start.

[where02190]

Give us a budget.

[Floridafred]

I would put a budget around $1000.00 but would go a little higher to make it really work.

[ArrMatey]

is that PSR3000 with a midi out? if it is, then get a sequencer first of all (something like logic for mac or fruityloops for pc) to already get some good sequencing.

 

You want as well some sort of good mic preamp and most of all, a good condenser microphone for your vocals.

The SE electronics microphones are pretty nice, look into RODE mics as well.

Choosing a good mic and a decent mic preamp will help.

 

Those are some things that you might need. I think there is more but it depends of what you wanna do with your keyboards and your vocals (just solo or add it to other projects)

[TonyCrazyMan]

I am a keyboardist that records keyboards and vocals too... If I were you I would save to get at least 3000$ to spend. But if you are out of money sources I think you should focus on a very good sounding AD converter. Try finding a cheap stereo converter with much dynamic range. Don't go with any more than 2 inputs and outputs because the quality of the conversion will drop because the low price tag keeps the analog circuitry quality down and the sound quality drops. Check out some 2 channel E-mu converter in the 500 euro price range, they might sound rather good. Choose an Audio Technica 4050 condenser mic to run with it, I got that advice from a very professional engineer in the heart of country music Nashville (a large recording complex). I haven't tried that mic or tried amplify the keyboards with a mic, but it's worth a try if you get such a good mic! But IF you choose to amplify the keyboards with the condenser mic, do it like Bruce Swedien always does: connect it directly and return it out to a mic to get some air into the sound late in the mixing process. This way it just adds some analog/accoustic air into an already wet signal which is supposed to add some nice fatness on the sound. Some also recommend delay on keyboard tracks with delay times of 211ms and 222ms. If you want Elton John kind of piano sound run it to two compressors and compress the signal at least 10dB. Then use your best sounding EQ you have and boost 14kHz as much as you can and 100Hz about 5dB. It's better though to choose the right mics for getting the sound instead of using the EQ... I think you can't get 3 good sounding things for as little as 1000$. So focus on the AD/DA + interface and a good mic for the 1000$ that you have available. I hope you get a good enough sound!

[EugeneBr]

provided you have a computer with firewire:

 

M-Audio Firewire Solo - $200

Apple Garageband or

Steinberg Cubase SE or

Cakewalk Home Studio - $100

Rode NT1A mic - $200

 

This will be enough to record a fairly sounding demo. When you play with it for some time and learn a few things, you'll be much better prepared to spend greater money on gear.

[Floridafred]

Tony*

I can probably meet the budget requirements you refer to. I said 1K not knowing what may be involved.

Would something like this Yamaha work station work for me. I think I can get one at a good price.

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=256830&is=REG

 

My understanding is that I can either do it in my computer or in a work station or am I missing something. I hate these learning curves but I usually catch on pretty quick. Thanks

[Floridafred]

My computer is decent but no firewire and the sound card is probably lacking. I'm a photographer and it is set up for my graphics. Never gave a thought to sound until now.

[where02190]

FW cards are $25 at any CompUSA, and you don't need a decent soundcard, you'll be getting one in yoru new setup.

 

Check out Tracktion from Mackie, $170, supersimple learning curve, and an M-audio or Edirol interface, for a few hundred.

 

Mics, there's tons of decent Large Diaphram Condensers (LDC) for a couple hundred that sound good. However I'd recommend either a new Rode NTK(under $500) or a used AKG C414B-ULS(under $500). Superb quality in both, worth IMHO the extra few hundred.

 

$180 for Tracktion, $300 for an ADDA interface with a couple preamps, $500 for a mic, $20 for a stand.

 

You'll still need some headphones for recording the vocals, and monitors for mixing. KRK Rokkits are great and a few hundred bucks, Vic Firth headphones (yes the drum stick people) are great and $50. Add another $50 for some cabling.

[Floridafred]

I have to check but I don't know that I have an empty slot for a firewire card. Am I losing a lot by going with USB. I am prepared to purchase a dedicated computer for my sound but it will take me a lot longer to get up and running. I have to be careful how I modify my current computer because the photography set up on it pays the bills. Can you suggest a good interface that I can use as a starting point for research. Maybe something that includes preamps or whatever may be necessary in one package. Thanks this is a big help.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Fred, do you want to be able to record your vocals and keyboard parts simultaneously, or will they be done seperately? The reason I ask is because it will make a difference insofar as the number of inputs you'll need on your computer audio interface...

 

As far as computers go, I agree that a seperate, dedicated computer for audio stuff is a good idea. Let's not mess with your photo machine.

 

Stand alone products like that Yamaha AW16G? Good stuff... HOWEVER, I wouldn't pick that particular model. Yamaha has recently come out with a couple of new products in the AW series that while they run a bit more money, are, IMO, far better sounding / more fully featured products and would definitely be worth the extra money if you decided to go the stand alone route. However, if you want MIDI sequencing capabilities, you're better off with a computer setup IMO.

[Floridafred]

It seems there is never an easy way. If I go computer which it sounds as if I should. I need to buy a dedicated computer on top of everything. Is there a standalone workstation that can go either way. I am trying to think of a way to get my feet wet, start the learning curve and build into an optimal setup. Any suggestions?

[Floridafred]

Phil: to answer your question I might be better off recording vocals separately but I am open for either way. Doing the vocals while playing suits my style just fine. I might want to lay down some extra tracks anyway. As I stated in the earlier post since I need so much gear it would be great if I could build a system in stages. However, I don't want to buy any junk just to get started.

[where02190]

There's really no reason why you need a dedicated computer. We run all our business as well as the studio on the same machine, plus photoshop, Illustrator, and tons of other apps. What's crutial is a dedicated drive for the audio files.

 

FW has a higher sustained throughput than USB2.0, and will yield better performance, but you can go USB2.0 with decent results. However most interfaces use the FW protocol.

[EugeneBr]

 

However, I don't want to buy any junk just to get started.

 

I'm afraid this is impossible. Fred, you're a photographer, imagine someone wanting to get started in photography from scratch asking you the same question about the equipment. Would you recommend him spending $XXX,000 just for starters? Probably not. That's why I'd say start reasonably simple and once you know what you're doing invest in bigger staff.

 

As for the lack of firewire, it's not necessary, the Solo thing is just convenient having mic preamp and headphone amp all in one box. With a PCI audio card you'd have to add them separately. There are USB devices with mic preamps and headphone amps, they seem to work fine. They won't give you as many simultaneous channels as firewire potentially can, but you probably won't need it anyway. Peace.

[Floridafred]

I appreciate all this good information. As a result I have learned how much I really don't know. A stand alone work station would work best for me right now, if I can find one that I can simply record vocals and keyboard on. Mainly for playback and experience. I can do my writing and arranging as I learn and study how best to go in the future. If anyone could suggest such an item I would look into it. Thanks.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay, it seems like you're leaning towards the "stand alone" route - that can be just fine Fred, but you have to remember that they don't really offer MIDI sequencing, so if that's something you thnk you might be interested in (either now or in the future), I'd recommend the dedicated computer and DAW software route... but if you prefer to physically play all of your parts and don't need MIDI sequencing and MIDI editing, then a stand alone can work just fine.

 

As I mentioned before, the AW16G is a cool little machine, but I think they might be discontinued or may soon be. The next generation of Yamaha stand-alone machines might be a better option at this point - they, unlike the AW16G, are 24 bit format recorders, and have better sound quality. The two new models are the AW1600 (about $1,200) and AW2400 (about $2,200).

 

AW1600 information.

 

AW2400 information.

 

Another advantage of the new machines over the AW16G is their USB 2.0 interfaces, which should greatly simplify the transferring of audio files to and from your computer for audio editing, if you should decide you want to expand into that at some point in the future.

[Floridafred]

Phil: Thanks. I have been looking at the aw-1600 and think I will go that route. That will give me a lot of hands on experience and allow me to advance my project. If after I leaned more I decide to go the other route I don't really think I will have lost a lot. The web stores I've checked so far are only taking advanced orders so it may not be avialable yet. If you hear of anyplace that is shipping the unit I would be interested. Thanks for all the help I've received as a newbie on this forum. It is a nice community and I'm glad I found it. I've learned a lot.

 

[Phil O'Keefe]

I just called one of my contacts over at Yamaha USA, and was informed that there are "tons of them" in the wharehouse. IOW, while they are brand new, they should be shipping now. Some stores might already have them in stock, but any store that has them on order should have them within the next week or two. I'd ask my local store if they have any on order... if they can honestly tell you "yes", then they should have them in stock any time now.

 

Please let me know if you have any trouble finding one, and once you get going, remember that we're always here to try to help.

 

And thanks for the kind words about the forum - we have a really great crew here.