Members EveningSky Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 I have often used the normalize function on my computer audio software as a final step to get some consistency in my ultimate sound level when mastering. I do not understand this function: "normalize"1. Will it distort the sound? 2. What level should I normalize to? To 0 db, or to slightly under 0 db, so that I do not clip when playing back on different playback equipment? 3. If normalizing to less than 0db, to what level should I normalize? To -1 db, -2 db, -3 db???Thank you, ES:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Here we go again - this subject gets beaten to death on a regular basis. If you are talking about mp3s played on computer speakers, you won't be worried about small quality issues, so you may as well smash away. If you like what you hear, that's all that matters. If you can appreciate hi fidelity music, and want the best practices for purest audio - you will avoid 'normalising' like the plague. There are better ways to get the job done, although in the scheme of things there are more hideous crimes than normalising. 'Normalising' is simply a process where the highest peak of the signal is found, and then the level is boosted so that highest peak reaches a chosen level - often 0dB or mayb -0.1dB or -0.2dB. But you could just as easily normalise down to -6dB. Any level change in digital audio is a multiplying process. When you multipy numbers, you get rounding errors. Although small, these errors pile up. It would be interesting to see how much you can destroy a sinewave by repeatedly changing the gain and then saving the file. The thing about normalising is that this is an unnecessary step, because invariably you will be changing the gain at the mixing stage, if not via various compress/limiting/saturation processes. Mastering is a whole subject in itself. A mastering engineer needs some headroom to work - so they won't appreciate it if you whack everything up to 0dB. The first thing he will have to do is whack it down to -9dB or whatever, so that is too unnecessary gain changes with rounding errors. Learn how to record at optimal levels (not too low, not too hot), and how to mix at optimal levels . The final mix can probably peak at around -6dBFS maximum - so you shouldn't need to use limiting anywhere. If self mastering, that's where you want to boost the volume up to a reasonable level. It's normal to use compression and limiting, rather than normalising. Normalising achieves nothing more than what a fader or makeup gain can do. Usually you want to boost the Average loudness, while taming the transient peaks, which requires compression and/or limiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nystrec Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 If your final product is really quiet then you may want to normalize it. If not then don't touch it. All these bands with the over compressed sound to get a loud CD is just horriable to me. No dynamics whatsoever. I don't know about you, but the stereos in my home and car have volume knobs. I don't own anything that I can't here loud enough without turning up the volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by nystrec If your final product is really quiet then you may want to normalize it. If not then don't touch it. If you plan and mix correctly (as Kiwi posted) you will not end up with a really quiet final product. Originally posted by nystrec All these bands with the over compressed sound to get a loud CD is just horriable to me. No dynamics whatsoever. I don't know about you, but the stereos in my home and car have volume knobs. I don't own anything that I can't here loud enough without turning up the volume. Normalization is not compression (again as Kiwi posted). Normalization is more like turning up or down a volume knob than compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gsHarmony Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by nystrec All these bands with the over compressed sound to get a loud CD is just horriable to me. No dynamics whatsoever. I don't know about you, but the stereos in my home and car have volume knobs. I don't own anything that I can't here loud enough without turning up the volume. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Normalization is not compression (again as Kiwi posted). Normalization is more like turning up or down a volume knob than compression. For some reason people always confuse normalization and compression. Like wbc said, normilazation is analogous to changing the volume knob. The analogy for compression would be to change the volume knob up and down while the track is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nystrec Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 I know the difference. I'm just saying that I don't understand why you need the loudest CD ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EveningSky Posted November 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 To all who responded, my best thanks. Your comments are so helpful to me. Special thanks to KiwiB. As a related subject which I assume has also been "beaten to death", how do you compress and limit. Is software dynamics processing bad? Is analogue dynamics processing good? I don't know sometimes if my sound editing improves my product or makes it worse. One thing however has become clear to me: It is much easier for me to mix and process on the computer than by channeling sound out of the computer to various "boxes", and then doing an AD back into the computer. Opinions? Advice? Thank you again. ES:wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nystrec Posted November 5, 2005 Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 It all dpends. A Waves compressor plug in is probably gonna sound better than some $100 beheringer hardware compressor. But a good quality hardware compressor is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted November 5, 2005 Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 Software compression is getting so good, that nothing but the very best hardware compressors can compete. And then, you had better have some very expensive D/A and A/D converters to make the trip outside the box worth it. Check out the freebies and commercial stuff at www.kjaerhus.com and www.voxengo.com for a taste of what is available. Both these guys make stunningly good compressors (among other things) at reasonable prices and with no dongles and challenge/response stupidity. Many people believe their stuff competes with, if not blows away, Waves and other expensive stuff that hook you into expensive updates or possible loss of the product). If you like clean compression, I think Anwida stuff is very underated www.anwida.com There are hundreds of other options too - and you can combine them with saturation effects and eq to get most sounds you could wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EveningSky Posted November 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 Thank you for your responses. They are very helpful. I will check out those web links. Yours, ES:idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EveningSky Posted November 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 Dear KiwiB, The two sites you listed appear to offer interesting products for the PC only. Unfortunatly in this instance, I am a Mac user. If you have any Mac suggestions, I would appreciate them. Yours, ES:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 5, 2005 Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 Waves, Bomb Factory, and others make good compressors for the Mac. Maybe UA as well, I don't know. For gain optimisation, I use Max DUY and it seems to work fine. I don't know if DUY makes a compressor or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted November 6, 2005 Members Share Posted November 6, 2005 www.pspaudioware.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Edge100 Posted November 6, 2005 Members Share Posted November 6, 2005 Originally posted by Kiwiburger www.pspaudioware.com Seconded! Vintage Warmer is fantastic on just about everything it touches...2-mix, bass, drum submix, etc. Its great. It can get a bit heavy-handed, but used cautiously, its great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EveningSky Posted November 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 7, 2005 Thank you KiwiB, Edge and UKA. I also noted that suggestion #3 of KiwiB, anwida, makes products for the mac which look good. I am downloading a demo for "PSPVintageWarmer" from PSP. The name apeals to me. Some of my music needs warming! I recently bought the TC Electronics Powercore PSI II card and included effects. I do not yet quite know what to make of them. TC Electronics has a very good reputation. I am still exploring this package. I perceive that it may not fulfill my high expections of it?! I am not yet able to judge it fairly, out of ignorance. One thing is clear however, the interface for the mac could be more polished! Of this group of included plugins, the plugin I have found most useful and easy to use is the plugin "Character" from Finland. Any opinion about these TCElectronics plugins/product Powercore? Any favorites in the plugin companies you have all suggested, especially with focus on cost/benefit/ease of use? Thank you, ES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members varakeef Posted November 7, 2005 Members Share Posted November 7, 2005 Originally posted by gsHarmony For some reason people always confuse normalization and compression. In some editors (soundforge for example) there's a box "if clipping occurs use compression/limiting" to check. Therefore a funtion "normalize" in a program may contain compression or limiting as well. This may explain some of the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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