Tabs pissing you off?

[Spikezone]

I think tabs give guitar players an excuse to be lazy and not learn to use their ears. I started playing in about 1969-70 and wore out a lot of records learning songs, and as a result I think I have a pretty good ear for intervals and harmonies.

This opinion was validated by my daughter's guitar teacher when she decided not to take lessons anymore. She intended to keep playing and her teacher, a friend of mine, said to make sure that she didn't get too dependant on tabs for the reasons that I have mentioned here.

I DO think my ears are getting a little too 'slow' to pick out some of the fast stuff or the intricacies of good finger picking (which I never really concentrated on all these years), however, and that is the only case where I might go looking for some tabs to get me started, but once on the right track, it would be definitely back to the stereo!

-Mikey

[Spikezone]

 

Originally posted by PRSnotPOS I think that's just your opinion. If I want to play a song that isn't mine it's probably because I really like what they artist did with it. I think it's insulting to make up my own version of a song I'm trying to play. I'm not talking about taking a song and making it new sounding or updating it (for example what 311 did with The Cure's - Love Song) But what is the point of learning to play a song if you aren't going to play it like the artist that made it up, because that's the impressive part.... being able to play something that a "pro" can play. What's more impressive, being able to play like Jimmy Page or just merely trying to sound like him? I'm not trying to be a jerk here I just hope you guys see my point. If you want to play a song the way you want to play it go ahead... but I want to play the way the artist who made it plays it.

 

 

I kind of agree with you to a point. I spent a lot of years in a 'Top 40 Band', or whatever you would want to call it, and with THAT kind of music, I think you are obliged to play the songs the way they were recorded, if only for the simple reason that the people in your audience are there to hear the songs the way they are used to hearing them, and even the non-musical ones get to know the songs and can tell when something doesn't sound quite right. I might be off-base here, but I doubt it. I would just like to say that I think this is really the only musical situation where note-for-note is the issue.

-Mikey

[Hudman]

 

Originally posted by PRSnotPOS I think that's just your opinion. If I want to play a song that isn't mine it's probably because I really like what they artist did with it. I think it's insulting to make up my own version of a song I'm trying to play. I'm not talking about taking a song and making it new sounding or updating it (for example what 311 did with The Cure's - Love Song) But what is the point of learning to play a song if you aren't going to play it like the artist that made it up, because that's the impressive part.... being able to play something that a "pro" can play. What's more impressive, being able to play like Jimmy Page or just merely trying to sound like him? I'm not trying to be a jerk here I just hope you guys see my point. If you want to play a song the way you want to play it go ahead... but I want to play the way the artist who made it plays it.

 

 

Well forget tab then. Buy concert footage and pay attention to how they play the song. The artists don't tab their songs. You are getting someone else's take on it. There are more than one way to play a song and make it sound like the original. Most artists don't play their live stuff like their studio stuff. Sometimes it's due to the lack of studio produced effects or layered guitar tracks. Other times it's due to the artists forgetting how they played it. Another factor is they get bored playing the songs the same way every night.

[Hudman]

 

Originally posted by Spikezone I think tabs give guitar players an excuse to be lazy and not learn to use their ears. I started playing in about 1969-70 and wore out a lot of records learning songs, and as a result I think I have a pretty good ear for intervals and harmonies. This opinion was validated by my daughter's guitar teacher when she decided not to take lessons anymore. She intended to keep playing and her teacher, a friend of mine, said to make sure that she didn't get too dependant on tabs for the reasons that I have mentioned here. I DO think my ears are getting a little too 'slow' to pick out some of the fast stuff or the intricacies of good finger picking (which I never really concentrated on all these years), however, and that is the only case where I might go looking for some tabs to get me started, but once on the right track, it would be definitely back to the stereo! -Mikey

 

 

Internet tabs are rarely 100% correct. If your ear is not developed you will struggle to correct the errors. Tabs work as a general outline of a song. You still have to get the feel and timing down. Your ear is the final judge.

[ColourOfFire]

There are many different ways of playing thesame song, and there are also so little difference wich can change the way to play, and some you won't even hear. Just try to do it with your ear. Playing it your own way doesn't mean you have to change it, you can play thesame notes/chords but in a different position. Playing with chord sheets is way better than playing by tabs, with chords you can figure out what position you want to play it yourself. Tabs are incorrect most of the time, I only use them as a lead when I can't find a note/chord.

[mateo150]

If you transcribe a lot or want to make songs easier to figure out by ear, I recommend Transcribe!

Its a great software program that lets you slow down the song, mark sections, repeat certain passages, EQ so you can hear the bass better, etc... Its the difference between getting it 99% correct and getting it to sound close. You can nail every exact note and often know what position the notes are played in by the tone.

 

Most good players have tried to transcribe stuff note for note at some point in their lives.

[Europa760]

my boy mateo

[HurdyGurdyMan]

I think that's just your opinion. If I want to play a song that isn't mine it's probably because I really like what they artist did with it. I think it's insulting to make up my own version of a song I'm trying to play. I'm not talking about taking a song and making it new sounding or updating it (for example what 311 did with The Cure's - Love Song) But what is the point of learning to play a song if you aren't going to play it like the artist that made it up, because that's the impressive part.... being able to play something that a "pro" can play. What's more impressive, being able to play like Jimmy Page or just merely trying to sound like him? I'm not trying to be a jerk here I just hope you guys see my point. If you want to play a song the way you want to play it go ahead... but I want to play the way the artist who made it plays it.

 

I think that's just your opinion.....duh!

 

 

Tell me honestly what you like better Bob Dylan's original 'All Along the Watchtower' or Hendrix's version?

 

Yeah, that's right...

[Darylb23]

If you care to hear a new guys perspective on tabs, read on.

 

Before I started to learn the guitar (three weeks ago), I thought tab was going to be the end all. I figured it would be a great way to learn a song quickly. I mean after all, they tell you where to put your fingers right there.

 

What I have learned in the last three weeks is that they are a great guidline. When you havent developed the skills yet you cant make it through a song anyway but I have been able to learn a couple of intros and riffs so I can at least feel like I am making some progress.

 

I am enjoying learning chords and scales and spend the bulk of my time trying to develop those skills. I actually rather enjoy learning the theory and skills although get a little frustrated when I can translate what makes sense in my head all the way to my fingers. And I can see that over time, those skills are what will allow me to play whatever I want. I can still see tabs being usefull in the future along with ear method and even standard notation.

 

For now I am very happy sitting down to run through chords and scales and then work on a little riff of some sort. I mostly use headphones because I practice at night but sometimes I like to unplug the phones and play something and see if my wife recognizes it.

 

So far I can make the intro to Gimme Three Steps and the main riff or lick or whatever the proper term is of Walk This Way sound pretty darn good. I am getting close on a couple of ZZ Top intros and Sweet Home Alabama. I also used tab to learn Happy Birthday and a couple of Christmas songs and I think it is cool to crank up the distortion and play those for my family. Cracks me up anyway.

 

I dont know if I conributed to the thread in a positive way but I made myself feel better. I was starting to get frustrated but when I read this, I realized that aint half bad for three weeks.

 

Cool, thanks.

[PRSnotPOS]

Right now I try to do things by ear but when I need help I look up tabs. For bands like Opeth it's hard to go buy ear all the time when there are 2 guitars + multi layers going on at once. I actually looked up tabs for Masters Apprentices and that's what inspired this thread. Although I pretty much figured out the intro all buy ear.

[GAS Man]

 

Originally posted by PRSnotPOS Have you guys ever tried to play tabs that made you wonder if the person who made them even tried to play what they were tabbing out on guitar? Or they don't even make any sense. Sometimes tabs really piss me off because I learn a certain way to play a song and then see the song performed live and see that I've been playing the song differently.

 

 

Yeah, I posted a story on here a little bit ago on a thread about "on-line tabs being shut down due to copyright threats". And in my post I stated that those are just "individual interpretions of a song" and FUTHERMORE, even if you do cough up the big bucks for a $28 tab book by some artist, the transcriptions are done by a transcribing service and not the artist themselves.

 

And my example was I got Eric Johnson's "Ah Via Musicom" fully transcribed. My stepson later got the same book, but a second edition. We noticed that they had changed the tab to a couple of the passages on "Cliffs of Dover". It really pissed me off that after spending all that money, they were "correcting it" and I had learned it in an awkward incorrect manner. And it can be very hard to retrain yourself once you've learned a piece wrong.

[ColourOfFire]

Maybe if you start doing it by ear, you should take something a little les complicated than Opeth;)

[walt0915]

 

Originally posted by PRSnotPOS I think that's just your opinion. If I want to play a song that isn't mine it's probably because I really like what they artist did with it. I think it's insulting to make up my own version of a song I'm trying to play. I'm not talking about taking a song and making it new sounding or updating it (for example what 311 did with The Cure's - Love Song) But what is the point of learning to play a song if you aren't going to play it like the artist that made it up, because that's the impressive part.... being able to play something that a "pro" can play. What's more impressive, being able to play like Jimmy Page or just merely trying to sound like him? I'm not trying to be a jerk here I just hope you guys see my point. If you want to play a song the way you want to play it go ahead... but I want to play the way the artist who made it plays it.

 

 

Well, that is CLEARLY my opinion. Wouldn't have it any other way. BTW, I'm not trying to impress anyone. And if I was trying to be like a "pro" I would play it the way a pro would play it, and a pro wouldn't mimic the original artist. I'm not sure what you mean by "new version" versus "updating it". As an example of what I'm talking about, compare Clapton's version of Little Wing to Hendrix's version. Or compare one of the dozens of blues songs the Stones have played to their original, or they way the Almans do Stateboro blues to the original or the way VanHalen did You Really Got Me to the Kinks. They are all the same song, but they are certainly updated. None of them are lick for lick the same fingering or even the same notes. That's the way a pro plays.

[Bmajor]

Actually, what's annoying is the tabster who says "all the other tabs on this song are wrong."

 

When his is wrong.

[Ripfence]

I am greatful for tabs. I find errors in some, even the professionally done versions in books I have purchased. Personally, I find it kind of fun (I have no idea why it's fun to me) to "fix" the errors.

 

I am impressed that some of you who have only been playing for 2 or 3 years don't need them. I have been playing for about 15 and I still do.

 

Right now I am learning some of Brian Setzer's newer stuff with his big band, many of these chords are composed around the horn sections and are completely foreign to me. Some of the lead breaks are very fast and not intuative (to me). Without tabs I wouldn't have been able to play the song, if you all can figure it out by ear after a few years of playing you are WAY FAR beyond me.

[fatfat]

I've been playing for 10 years and I don't really NEED tabs, but if there's a long, fast solo, or even some complex rhythm, it's nice to use tabs. It saves me time. Sure, sometimes the fingerings are {censored}ed up, but I can correct that myself. To me, it's just a great convenience, because I don't have time to play->rewind->play->rewind some slowed down "shred" solo with a {censored}load of notes. It IS gratifying to figure things out for yourself, but I don't always have time to do that (there are other things in life besides guitar.... right? )

 

For the beginner, wrong tabs are probably more annoying. I basically learned guitar, though, from playing my favorite artists' tabs. Eventually when develop your sklls and ear enough (if you stick with it) you can, as others said, find it easy to move around fingerings and make it comfortable for the way you play. After all, not everyone has the reach and dexterity of Paul Gilbert.

[PRSnotPOS]

 

Originally posted by walt0915 Well, that is CLEARLY my opinion. Wouldn't have it any other way. BTW, I'm not trying to impress anyone. And if I was trying to be like a "pro" I would play it the way a pro would play it, and a pro wouldn't mimic the original artist. I'm not sure what you mean by "new version" versus "updating it". As an example of what I'm talking about, compare Clapton's version of Little Wing to Hendrix's version. Or compare one of the dozens of blues songs the Stones have played to their original, or they way the Almans do Stateboro blues to the original or the way VanHalen did You Really Got Me to the Kinks. They are all the same song, but they are certainly updated. None of them are lick for lick the same fingering or even the same notes. That's the way a pro plays.

 

 

When I said update I meant when a band take one of their own songs and changes it around. For example how Incubus changed their song "Drive" they changed the way they play it in concert from the way it was on their CD. When I said new version I mean when I band takes an old song and pretty much covers it in their own way. For example Marilyn Manson - Tainted Love, 311 - Love Song, A Perfect Circle - Imagine.

[El Mariachi]

Originally posted by xStonr I use tabs as a template. It's just a place to get started.

 

+1

 

Nice to have some groundwork laid. If you've learned songs by ear the rest is cake

[rockstrongo]

 

Originally posted by PRSnotPOS Have you guys ever tried to play tabs that made you wonder if the person who made them even tried to play what they were tabbing out on guitar? Or they don't even make any sense. Sometimes tabs really piss me off because I learn a certain way to play a song and then see the song performed live and see that I've been playing the song differently.

 

 

 

 

You have to read them with a grain of salt, and use your ears. I love tabs, but they're just a starting point for me.

 

 

Power Tabs had excellent tabs before it was shut down. {censored}ing RIAA.

[Beer Drinker]

 

Originally posted by walt0915 I was always insired by Jimi Hendrix who loved to play other people's music, and loved to play it HIS way. And he didn't even play it the same way all the time either. I'm not Hendrix, far from it, but that always inspired me to always make the music I play my own - or put another way, to put a little bit of me into everthing I play.

 

 

You realize that he was able to do that because he learned how to play other people's music THEIR way when he played in various R&B bands before he was Jimi Hendrix. When Jimi played in those bands he was forced to learn to play, not only, the songs of the artist he was backing up, but all the hits of the day, note for note, just like the people who came to dance heard on the radio or on their turntables. The rules & requirements for those bands were very strict & you had to be able to pound out those note-for-note songs night after night exactly the same way. If you couldn't you didn't stay in the band. Jimi eventually found his own voice because he put in a hell of a lot of work learning other people's music first.

 

There is nothing wrong with learning other people's music note for note. In fact, if you want to become a great guitar player you pretty much have to. Learning note-for-note songs is like learning to walk before you can run. It gives you a foundation that you can't get any other way.

 

If you are having trouble with the tabs then that's a good thing. It means that you are learning & developing your ear, your fingers & your mind.

[worthyjoe]

Originally posted by Hudman I'm glad that people take the time to tab out songs. We should never complain about it. We should be happy that someone tried.

 

True but I think you forget that those who needs tabs the most don't have the ability yet to figure out what is wrong, why it's wrong, and what is right. In other words, bad tabs hurt the ones they are designed to help. You and I can figure out the difference. A noob cannot.

 

Again, I just don't understand why someone would take the time and effort to post a tab that is aweful. I'm mostly talking about chord charts that are just way off. I've seen horrible ones. It annoys me to no end. Now I just figure out everything on my own and hit the net if I get stuck on something. (usually with no luck)

 

[PRSnotPOS]

 

Originally posted by Beer Drinker You realize that he was able to do that because he learned how to play other people's music THEIR way when he played in various R&B bands before he was Jimi Hendrix. When Jimi played in those bands he was forced to learn to play, not only, the songs of the artist he was backing up, but all the hits of the day, note for note, just like the people who came to dance heard on the radio or on their turntables. The rules & requirements for those bands were very strict & you had to be able to pound out those note-for-note songs night after night exactly the same way. If you couldn't you didn't stay in the band. Jimi eventually found his own voice because he put in a hell of a lot of work learning other people's music first. There is nothing wrong with learning other people's music note for note. In fact, if you want to become a great guitar player you pretty much have to. Learning note-for-note songs is like learning to walk before you can run. It gives you a foundation that you can't get any other way. If you are having trouble with the tabs then that's a good thing. It means that you are learning & developing your ear, your fingers & your mind.

 

 

Yes, I agree with all of this.

[walt0915]

 

Originally posted by Beer Drinker You realize that he was able to do that because he learned how to play other people's music THEIR way when he played in various R&B bands before he was Jimi Hendrix. When Jimi played in those bands he was forced to learn to play, not only, the songs of the artist he was backing up, but all the hits of the day, note for note, just like the people who came to dance heard on the radio or on their turntables. The rules & requirements for those bands were very strict & you had to be able to pound out those note-for-note songs night after night exactly the same way. If you couldn't you didn't stay in the band. Jimi eventually found his own voice because he put in a hell of a lot of work learning other people's music first. There is nothing wrong with learning other people's music note for note. In fact, if you want to become a great guitar player you pretty much have to. Learning note-for-note songs is like learning to walk before you can run. It gives you a foundation that you can't get any other way. If you are having trouble with the tabs then that's a good thing. It means that you are learning & developing your ear, your fingers & your mind.

 

 

 

There's some truth in that - but not much. Jimi was kicked out of a number of bands for playing too "funky" I'm sure he learned more than his share of licks, and I certainly don't advocate otherwise - but I promise you he was NEVER concerned with finger-to-fret accuracy. He played the lick the way he played it - but he still played it. And then he rolled a few of his own in there and on he went.

 

The argument isn't whether its useful or important to learn the licks of the masters - it is. The argument is whether it matters if you play it on this string and this fret, or that string and that fret, and whether its such a big deal if free tabs are "not right"

 

Don't change the subject.

[Beer Drinker]

 

Originally posted by walt0915 There's some truth in that - but not much. Jimi was kicked out of a number of bands for playing too "funky" I'm sure he learned more than his share of licks, and I certainly don't advocate otherwise - but I promise you he was NEVER concerned with finger-to-fret accuracy. He played the lick the way he played it - but he still played it. And then he rolled a few of his own in there and on he went.

 

 

No offense, but you should brush up on your music history.

[buddastrat]

 

Originally posted by PRSnotPOS Have you guys ever tried to play tabs that made you wonder if the person who made them even tried to play what they were tabbing out on guitar? Or they don't even make any sense. Sometimes tabs really piss me off because I learn a certain way to play a song and then see the song performed live and see that I've been playing the song differently.

 

 

 

Why? You should be mad at yourself for not learning it on your own. Someone else took their time and tried to get it right to the best of their abilities. There's no guarantees. Even from actual publications. A few months back Guitar Player magazine had a few Yngwie licks all wrong. Last month they did some EVH riffs, and some of those were off.

 

Besides, you learn from mistakes. You actually learn a lot more by learning it different ways, it makes you think of the fretboard and patterns and different approaches with picking and fingering.

 

But you should just learn ear to be the best player you can.