Inspired by the Black Lion Mod Thread (Advice needed - MOTU or Rosetta)

[Palaver]

Hey Guys,

 

This is slightly off topic, but I wanted some opinions from you guys.

 

I am hell bent between modding my MOTU 828MkII, or selling it, saving up, and getting a Rosetta 200. If I modded the MOTU, I'd also get them to send me their external clock which is supposedly more accurate than Rosetta's.

 

If I were to get a Rosetta 200, would I be able to use that as an on-stage mixer like my MOTU (output multi-stereo monitor mixes along with main mix, etc.)? I am really unfamiliar with Apogee. Also, what kind of pres are recommended for use with the Apogee converters?

 

I know the preamp question is subjective, but I am very interested in UADs class A input tune pres. I've also heard a lot about the GT brick. UAD thru Apogee? Or do the full-deal meal deal with BLA and the MOTU?

 

So what would you do? I guess getting the BLA mod to the MOTU would probably be the more convenient route as BLA also upgrades the pre amps?

 

What to do...

 

-Phi

[hugh manatee]

I'm not the best person to reply to this as i havent had anything modded by BLA (I want to though) nor do i have any apogee stuff, however, it seems to me if your on a budget getting the apogee would be more expesive due to the need for more pres. I mean if you got the money to drop on the apogee and some nice pres all at once, i would probably go that route, but i hear nothing but great great responses from anyone who has had a mod from BLA here or anywhere else. however, I have a digi003 and AI-3 that i would love to get modded. But a grand is hard to come by; as i try to save then I either make an impulse buy, or have some stupid bill take all of it. Thats just how my life works though; for instance i got some loot for x-mas which would either have gone into a nice pre or a bla mod of my 003, but instead i broke my leg and need to pay rent for the next few months as im outta the job.

 

in short, on a budget get the mod. if money is no object get the apogee and the pres, and also get my stuff modded for me:idea:

[Palaver]

To be honest with you, after reading more about the Apogee, I think I am going to go with the ensemble. It comes with four preamps, and integrates perfectly with what I am already running. I plan on doing mastering work with Logic Pro, so the Rosetta seems like the logical choice... plus the roster of artists with production that I love.

 

I am thinking that I can get 500 bucks for the MOTU if I play my cards right and wait it out. It's a great little box, but I am impulsive, and I like having the best. I was going to buy the UAD Xpander DSP, but I figure, what's the point if my A/D and D/A converters aren't top knotch when using the cat's ass in terms of effects... I'm sure with some time, I could get damn close with logic's effects, and logic is more bang for the buck.

 

After I finish writing my album on Ableton, I'll put the MOTU for sale, and then go for the Apogee/Logic combo. Redo the vox if necessary, and really iron out the audio technicalities. My justification - after my e-mail to BLA, it's going to be 650+ to ship it to the states to get the clock/analog stuff mod. I may as well save up over a couple of extra months and get the real deal.

 

{censored} it. I'm young once.

 

Any suggestions?

[UstadKhanAli]

The Ensemble looks like it's a great unit. You should know, however, that the converters are not as high-quality as the Rosetta 800 or 200, according to the Apogee rep I met at NAMM last year.

 

Palaver: As for the question about what mic preamps go best with Apogee converters, the answer, in my opinion, is that it doesn't matter. Choose the mic preamps that you like best that sound the best with whatever music you wish to record. The Apogee will convert any good signal, so get your signal sounding as good as possible.

[Palaver]

 

The Ensemble looks like it's a great unit. You should know, however, that the converters are not as high-quality as the Rosetta 800 or 200, according to the Apogee rep I met at NAMM last year. Palaver: As for the question about what mic preamps go best with Apogee converters, the answer, in my opinion, is that it doesn't matter. Choose the mic preamps that you like best that sound the best with whatever music you wish to record. The Apogee will convert any good signal, so get your signal sounding as good as possible.

 

 

I know the ensemble has 4 mic-pres. The less wires and equipment I have running around here (and the more stream-lined) the better. I'm assuming the Rosetta Rig would use some pretty darn good pres... If the ensemble isn't as great as the Rosetta, would I be just as well off doing the BLA mod to the MOTU?

 

I figured the ensemble would convert just as good as the Rosetta. {censored}ty... However, how much of a leap up is the Ensemble from a MOTU 828MkII?

[alphajerk]

make sure you can return it not actually HEARING it ahead of time. i dont like how apogee stuff sounds. you might like it... but i would be kinda pissed if i had ever dropped money on them in my life. although that might of made me like how they sound. glad i didnt have that bias.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I know the ensemble has 4 mic-pres. The less wires and equipment I have running around here (and the more stream-lined) the better. I'm assuming the Rosetta Rig would use some pretty darn good pres... If the ensemble isn't as great as the Rosetta, would I be just as well off doing the BLA mod to the MOTU? I figured the ensemble would convert just as good as the Rosetta. {censored}ty... However, how much of a leap up is the Ensemble from a MOTU 828MkII?

 

 

 

I really like The Rosetta's converters. And my understanding is that the Ensemble still sounds really great, it's just that the converters are not as high quality as the Rosetta's. I have never heard the MOTU, so i can't comment.

 

When I had the conversation with the Apogee rep, i asked if the converters were the same as the Rosetta's. He said no. I apparently looked slightly surprised because he said, "Why? Did you expect them to be in a box that costs hundreds less and has four mic preamps?" I replied that I thought that they may have worked up something with Apple, accounting for the discrepancy in price. He shook his head and said, "No, something had to change. The converters are still good, but they're not the same as the Rosetta."

 

I know AlphaJerk doesn't like Apogee's converters. It's all a matter of taste. I am so happy with the Rosetta's converters, I can't tell you. I feel like I am getting really great sounds into my rig with the thing. There may be better converters out there, sure, but I got the Rosetta for $2100, and it'd be hard to imagine you can do better than that for eight A/Ds and eight D/As for the price.

[alphajerk]

like everything, its a matter of personal taste. im just noting to TRY them out with the ability to return. nothing like buyers remorse. that goes for EVERYTHING really.

[Palaver]

 

I really like The Rosetta's converters. And my understanding is that the Ensemble still sounds really great, it's just that the converters are not as high quality as the Rosetta's. I have never heard the MOTU, so i can't comment. When I had the conversation with the Apogee rep, i asked if the converters were the same as the Rosetta's. He said no. I apparently looked slightly surprised because he said, "Why? Did you expect them to be in a box that costs hundreds less and has four mic preamps?" I replied that I thought that they may have worked up something with Apple, accounting for the discrepancy in price. He shook his head and said, "No, something had to change. The converters are still good, but they're not the same as the Rosetta." I know AlphaJerk doesn't like Apogee's converters. It's all a matter of taste. I am so happy with the Rosetta's converters, I can't tell you. I feel like I am getting really great sounds into my rig with the thing. There may be better converters out there, sure, but I got the Rosetta for $2100, and it'd be hard to imagine you can do better than that for eight A/Ds and eight D/As for the price.

 

 

I really appreciate the advice. I personally think I am much better going off with the Apogee Ensemble. I can get it for less than $1600 and it includes 4 preamps. I should be able to shake my MOTU for 500 bucks. It's going to cost me $600 bucks to MOD it, and I don't see the point if the Apogee Ensemble has better specs (A/D and D/A @ 192kHz). Plus, I like how they have a huge artist roster, and surprisingly, a lot of people that I like.

 

From what I've read, it's a definite step up from the MOTU, and I like how the ensemble has been used on real albums. Plus, I plan on getting logic shortly, so I think it's the right choice for me.

 

If there's any other advice feel free to toss it my way.

 

Alphajerk:

 

What kind of gear/software are you using? I'd really like to hear your input, and what kind of music that you are making.

 

Cheers,

Phil

[UstadKhanAli]

Obviously, I've never used the Ensemble, but my guess is that it would sound good and that it would be a sonically noticeable step up from the MOTU. I didn't know that it had been used to record lots of albums, but it also doesn't surprise me. I believe it would be good enough for to make a good sounding album. People have done decent sounding albums on less stellar gear than that. It also apparently interacts with Logic, should that be important to you.

 

Also, my understanding is that the mic preamps that come with the Ensemble are good quality, clean preamps (iow, not "character"-sounding preamps, things that overtly alter or color the sound, yadda yadda).

[seaneldon]

The converters in the Ensemble don't sound like anything else in the Apogee line. I wouldn't try to confuse anyone by saying that they're better or worse, they're just way different. Much more clean and pristine, but definitely not lacking anything in the bottom octaves! It just doesn't sound as "aggressive" as the Rosettas.

 

The reason they can keep the price down, in my opinion, has NOTHING to do with the sound of the unit, but the construction and design of the unit. There's four mic pres, sure, but they don't have their own dedicated outputs, dedicated phantom switches, or even dedicated gain knobs. All of that is done in the software routing. TONS of coin saved per unit.

 

I think the Ensemble sounds AWESOME. It ain't gonna kill you with character, but it's not supposed to, I guess. The MOTU stuff sounds like recording through high and low pass filters compared to the Ensemble. Period.

[Palaver]

 

The converters in the Ensemble don't sound like anything else in the Apogee line. I wouldn't try to confuse anyone by saying that they're better or worse, they're just way different. Much more clean and pristine, but definitely not lacking anything in the bottom octaves! It just doesn't sound as "aggressive" as the Rosettas. The reason they can keep the price down, in my opinion, has NOTHING to do with the sound of the unit, but the construction and design of the unit. There's four mic pres, sure, but they don't have their own dedicated outputs, dedicated phantom switches, or even dedicated gain knobs. All of that is done in the software routing. TONS of coin saved per unit. I think the Ensemble sounds AWESOME. It ain't gonna kill you with character, but it's not supposed to, I guess. The MOTU stuff sounds like recording through high and low pass filters compared to the Ensemble. Period.

 

 

Just out of curiosity, are you using the preamps for vox recordings in the ensemble? Or do you run another preamp to colour them? Do you have any demos of work that you've done on the ensemble?

 

I really appreciate the input. Next pay-cheque, I think I am going to order one in, and get going with that bad-boy (the ensemble). I'm no longer interested in a BLA mod whatsoever as of now. If I can get back 400-500 for my mint MOTU 828mkII firewire, then I think the Ensemble is well worth it. I got the MOTU for 650, and BLA is charging 295 for analog mods, plus 275 for their clock and shipping... that there is the price of the Ensemble right there... and the impression I get from the BLA staff, is that they use Apogee gear as a bench mark. I know for a fact they used Apogee's Big Ben as the standard for their BLA clock.

 

I'm all about Logic, I LOVE Ableton, so I think for my MacBook Pro... Apogee is the way of the road.

 

Thanks dudes.

 

-Phil