Best SC pickups for funk/quack?

[Cloacal-X]

Okay, so I'm looking to replace the single-coils in my ash-bodied MusicMan Albert Lee - I have EMG SVs in there and while I love the fidelity, the in-between positions don't sound right at all.

 

I'd like to get something else - price range would be anything at or below $240 - so basically I'm down for lollars, fralins, kinmans, whatever - they just gotta be good for funk and clean, stratty sounds in general. Emphasis on good "in-between" (parallel pickup) sounds! Oh, any bridge pickup which has a baseplate available as an option would be good too.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

I make a set of handwound singlecoils called Vintage 60s.

They have great in between quack tones. If dont use a RWRP middle you'll get even more quack.

 

You can get more info and listen too clips at www.bg-pups.com

PM me if you have any questions.

Also take a look at the user reviews on this site of my Vintage 60s.

 

Thanks,

Bryan

[jhall]

I'm Partial to CS 54 Strat pickups. Her'es a demo of those through a Champion 600 with a Ltd edition American Strat with CS-54s

All Guitars are that amp and pickup set:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"I read about the noisiness and the farty speaker and such so I decided to record this with the stock speaker and a 50th Anniv Ltd edition American series Strat.

I used an SM-57 in front of the stock amp(I did put new tubes in it though).

I plugged the mic into mu TonePort UX2 with a vocal preamp as the recording device. I then recorded all the guitat parts dry with the Champ and a strat.

I used Sonoma wire Works as a DAW. I used the stock Demo Drummer in that program ( Though I've bought some of the other sets they offer I use this groove a lot for my students so I used it here too).

I then did some After recording production work:

Some panning here and there, I put a pinch of reverb in and s dash of Phase shifter on the quick strumming part.

The Bass line was recorded with the TonePort with the Slap Bass Preset using a cheapie bass I have laying about.

All Guitars are recorded through the little Champ!!! There's some Chrystal clear to slightly driven stuff there.

It's kinda like Robert Cray and Eric Clapton Trading a riff.

If you have the opportunity to play it on a decent stereo at high volume, You'll really come to appreaciate the recording usefullness of this little amp."

http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=977615&t=6193

__________________I think they're about $150.00? A set

If only I was all thumbs

[Cloacal-X]

Bryan - why would not using a RWRP middle give more quack?

[Norcal_GIT_r]

 

Bryan - why would not using a RWRP middle give more quack?

 

 

Hum canceling also cancels out some of the frequencies that gives a great quack tone.

[Cloacal-X]

Oh, I should add - I'm not necessarily looking for true single coils. Hell, from the audio samples I really like the Seymour Duncan duckbuckers - but their tone is maybe just slightly too strident for my tastes. I don't play super high gain, and I'm not looking for something that's an accurate vintage replacement specifically. I just want it to sound nice and greasy and funky.

[Cloacal-X]

 

Hum canceling also cancels out some of the frequencies that gives a great quack tone.

 

 

See, this is what worries me. RWRP only provides common-mode rejection - that is, it can only cancel signals *not* resulting from string vibration. This is because the coils are reverse-wound, which puts them out of phase with each other - this is what provides the noise cancellation. But the magnets are also reverse polarity, which puts the string's signal back in-phase. Each step provides *exactly* 180 degrees phase cancellation of the string's signal, but only the coil's winding affects common-mode noise.

 

This is a very sound electrical principle (I'm an EE), and the fact that you suggest something otherwise doesn't exactly build my confidence in your understanding of the science behind pickups.

[DenverDave]

You can get more info and listen too clips at www.bg-pups.com

 

I listened to those Saturday night and loved the clips. Very sweet sounding pickups...

[Norcal_GIT_r]

 

I listened to those Saturday night and loved the clips. Very sweet sounding pickups...

 

 

Thanks Dave!!

[Cloacal-X]

Respectfully, I would suggest showing me how they could make a difference, because I'm just not going to buy some pickups and wire them up in a way that I consider to be electrically suspect just to test a theory that I already believe to be false.

 

The only thing I can imagine is that maybe the 60-cycle hum's harmonics create a psychoacoustic affect when mixed with the guitar's signal, creating the impression of greater quack.

 

So let's actually consider that a challenge - you record a demo with RWRP middle vs. non-RWRP middle (identical build otherwise) using switch positions 2 & 4, same neck and bridge pickup, same guitar, same settings. And please record a couple minutes of "silence" with the non-RWRP guitar plugged in, so that it can be multitracked with the RWRP recording (to negate the possible aforementioned psychoacoustic effect). If you can demonstrate to me empirically that there is a difference, I will humbly apologize, and then hit the books to understand better how this could possibly be.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

I'm not going to get into poo throwing contest with you.

I'm not saying to buy my pups to try this. Just take your bridge pickup and put in the middle positiion and take a listen.

[animl]

FWIW:

 

I have a set of Fralin Vintage Hots (RWRP mid) in my CSB Squier and they have some serious position 2 quack (bridge/mid) - not as pronounced in #4, but its there. Maybe more in pos 2 because of the greater output difference between the bridge and mid vs neck and mid

 

I don't know if the Fralins have more or less quack than NorCal's pickups, or more or less than a non RWRP set in general, but if you're looking for quacky pickups, the Fralin VHs are a good option to consider

[Norcal_GIT_r]

 

FWIW: I have a set of Fralin Vintage Hots (RWRP mid) in my CSB Squier and they have some serious position 2 quack (bridge/mid) - not as pronounced in #4, but its there. Maybe more in pos 2 because of the greater output difference between the bridge and mid vs neck and mid I don't know if the Fralins have more or less quack than NorCal's pickups, or more or less than a non RWRP set in general, but if you're looking for quacky pickups, the Fralin VHs are a good option to consider

 

 

I'm not saying you don't get quack with a rwrp, I'm saying you get more without rwrp.

Let your ears decide.

[Cloacal-X]

 

I'm not going to get into poo throwing contest with you. I'm not saying to buy my pups to try this. Just take your bridge pickup and put in the middle positiion and take a listen.

 

 

Well, as I said in my original post, right now I've got these EMGs, and each pickup is buffered so it doesn't matter. I have no way of testing this at the moment.

 

FWIW, I don't think this is poo-throwing at all. You might not be used to this at HC, but I am attempting to engage is what is commonly referred to as a rational debate. When you make a claim (especially in a professional capacity!), you should be willing to back it up. I believe I have explained my position pretty well.

[animl]

 

Well, as I said in my original post, right now I've got these EMGs, and each pickup is buffered so it doesn't matter. I have no way of testing this at the moment. FWIW, I don't think this is poo-throwing at all. You might not be used to this at HC, but I am attempting to engage is what is commonly referred to as a rational debate. When you make a claim (especially in a professional capacity!), you should be willing to back it up. I believe I have explained my position pretty well.

 

 

I am not an accomplished guitar player, a pickup maker or EE, but (basic scientific methodology 101)...

 

in order to conduct this test properly wouldn't the only variable in the experiment have to be the mid pickup? I would think to control the experiment, you would need to use the exact same bridge and neck pickup and have identical mid pickups, except for the fact that one is RWRP and one not.

 

Otherwise how are you going to know why (if) the perceived quack is different?

[Norcal_GIT_r]

 

Well, as I said in my original post, right now I've got these EMGs, and each pickup is buffered so it doesn't matter. I have no way of testing this at the moment. FWIW, I don't think this is poo-throwing at all. You might not be used to this at HC, but I am attempting to engage is what is commonly referred to as a rational debate. When you make a claim (especially in a professional capacity!), you should be willing to back it up. I believe I have explained my position pretty well.

 

 

When I said poo throwing contest I meant it light heartedly. I've been around here a little longer than you have and know what its like here.

 

Disregard what I said.

If you ever get the itch to check out what I said great.

I have 25+ years experience as a professional gigging guitarist and 15+ years as a tech and now designing and creating wonderful sounding pickups. I know thing or 2 about tone and how guitars react to pickups and other input. Be it hardware, strings, electronics..etc.

Sorry I didnt get an EE degree so I can explain this too you in a way you would understand...Sorry.

 

All I can say is try it, if you don't like it fine. There's plenty of players who have tried this and have stuck with it for many years, myself included.

[Cloacal-X]

 

I am not an accomplished guitar player, a pickup maker or EE, but (basic scientific methodology 101)... in order to conduct this test properly wouldn't the only variable in the experiment have to be the mid pickup? I would think to control the experiment, you would need to use the exact same bridge and neck pickup and have identical mid pickups, except for the fact that one is RWRP and one not. Otherwise how are you going to know why (if) the perceived quack is different?

 

 

Oh, I totally agree - and that's what I'm proposing. Norcal suggested swapping pickups. It might work fine if you have some APS-I's or something that are totally factory made don't really vary much, but handmade pickups will still vary. There's actually not much guarantee that the non-RWRP pickup won't be sweeter just by luck of the draw if they're all handmade.

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk to norcal or anything, it just that what he's suggesting really flies in the face of everything I've learned so far. And I admit, I am a little bit more adversarial towards somebody who is trying to sell their own pickups, partially because I do expect people who sell things to really understand their own product.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

One final statement.

I did not come across this making my own pups, but years ago from using a set of old SD SSL2s that did not have rwrp. Then trying a rwrp to quell the noise I noticed the sonic difference. I have since discussed this with other players and pup makers who have found the same results.

 

Later gentlemen.

[Cloacal-X]

When I said poo throwing contest I meant it light heartedly. I've been around here a little longer than you have and know what its like here. Disregard what I said. If you ever get the itch to check out what I said great. I have 25+ years experience as a professional gigging guitarist and 15+ years as a tech and now designing and creating wonderful sounding pickups. I know thing or 2 about tone and how guitars react to pickups and other input. Be it hardware, strings, electronics..etc. Sorry I didnt get an EE degree so I can explain this too you in a way you would understand...Sorry. All I can say is try it, if you don't like it fine. There's plenty of players who have tried this and have stuck with it for many years, myself included.

 

Well, I've actually been around HC since like 2001, I just switch aliases a lot.

 

Anyway, for somebody with so much experience, you really don't seem to have the thickest skin. When you say things like "Sorry I didnt get an EE degree so I can explain this too you in a way you would understand...Sorry." it comes across to me as a slightly sarcastic, disingenuous apology, and quite frankly it smacks of anti-intellectualism. You don't have to have a degree to understand basic electromagnetic principles - anybody can check out a book. When I tell you that I'm an EE, I'm not trying to lord it over you or anything, I'm just explaining that I have invested some time and energy into understanding these types of things. You didn't have to apologize to me for anything in the first place, but apologies like that definitely don't impress me.

 

I'm also explaining to you that I have no easy way to try what you suggest, and as myself and animl mentioned, swapping bridge and middle pickups is not guaranteed to produce identical results unless the pickups are already known to be identical - and many good sets of pickups are not identical!

 

If you believe in what you're saying, spend the small investment of time and make a demo! That way, you'll always have something to point to whenever somebody diasgrees - it goes a long way towards credibility too. You don't have to have a scientific answer to satisfy me, if the empirical evidence is strong enough. But I'm sure as hell not going to go out of my way to validate your claim, I'm the one disagreeing with you!

[cephus]

I have played a lot of funk and I think the 2/3 and 1/2 positions on a strat are completely non-funky. It is the opposite of funk. It removes the attack and makes the sound mushy. I prefer the middle pickup by itself for funk time. I actually recently built a HH squier with 2 low-output GFS chrome humbuckers and it sounds pretty funky.

 

In the 80s, those out of phase positions were called funky, but the stuff that I consider funky is from the 70s and mostly played on gibsons. Going back further, sly stone stuff was probably a tele I think. James brown's guitar player never had the out of phase sound and he has the funkiest sound ever in my opinion.

 

So, I like standard fender strat pickups for versitility and HH for a funky sound with alot of character.

[SpeedBallBlues]

I get a juicy quack out of the Fat 50's in my 97 Am Std Strat believe it or not. I've heard many others say the same, although they're not considered "cool" pups.

[telesan]

Bill Lawrence Keystone Strat PUs on ebay for about $75 a set

 

I think that the guy who sells them on ebay is bullfighterguitars and his email is editor@juno.com (Bruce Morgan???)

 

Be sure to tell him that "pakyon" from ebay sent you. I have 2 sets and I love them. They sound like late '50s Strat tone with balls- great for funk.

 

Now I'm going to get the funk out of here:cool:

[Cloacal-X]

 

I have played a lot of funk and I think the 2/3 and 1/2 positions on a strat are completely non-funky. It is the opposite of funk. It removes the attack and makes the sound mushy. I prefer the middle pickup by itself for funk time. I actually recently built a HH squier with 2 low-output GFS chrome humbuckers and it sounds pretty funky. In the 80s, those out of phase positions were called funky, but the stuff that I consider funky is from the 70s and mostly played on gibsons. Going back further, sly stone stuff was probably a tele I think. James brown's guitar player never had the out of phase sound and he has the funkiest sound ever in my opinion. So, I like standard fender strat pickups for versitility and HH for a funky sound with alot of character.

 

 

Yeah, I know Jimmy Nolen (James Brown's guitarist) mostly used gibsons, but my understanding is that he preferred single-coil guitars (obviously more P90 style).

 

At any rate, just to be clear what I am looking for is the best strat "quack", whether or not it's a true funk sound.

 

So far what it seems to look like so far is that very traditional, 50's strat-style single coils seem to be the way to go. In thinking about it, even humbuckers should be able to provide this since a lot of the "quack" it due to a shift in the resonant peak of each pickup since their parallel connection decreases the inductance of each pickup. But I think the proximity of each pickup has to be just right, too.

 

Okay, here's a question - do you guys feel that sets with a different number of windings for each pickup improve or detract from the quack-sound in the in-between positions? I'm curious because if the inductance of each pickup is different, the resonant peak will shift by a different amount for each pickup, and the amount of shift will be less (which kind of suggests less quack). But maybe certain combinations help to produce that interesting vowel/formant-like quality?

[Cloacal-X]

Bill Lawrence Keystone Strat PUs on ebay for about $75 a set I think that the guy who sells them on ebay is bullfighterguitars and his email is editor@juno.com (Bruce Morgan???) Be sure to tell him that "pakyon" from ebay sent you. I have 2 sets and I love them. They sound like late '50s Strat tone with balls- great for funk. Now I'm going to get the funk out of here:cool:

 

That is indeed a hell of a deal.

[Dujo]

See, this is what worries me. RWRP only provides common-mode rejection - that is, it can only cancel signals *not* resulting from string vibration. :blah: This is a very sound electrical principle (I'm an EE), and the fact that you suggest something otherwise doesn't exactly build my confidence in your understanding of the science behind pickups.

 

Sound principles or not I would tend to favor the results of observation and experimentation. I know this must come as a shock to an engineer, but it's possible that your understanding is not complete.

 

I have to wonder why you asked for opinions at all, why don't you just look at the specs and decide which one sounds best that way.