Those mystical/magical song structures

[Kendrix]

I generally write tunes in one of the standard structures.

You know ABABCB, ABABCAB, and, rarely, ABAB or BABCB.

Sometimes there's a distinct intro sometimes not.

Sometimes an outro instrumental section of some sort.

 

The past few tunes I've written spilled out fiarly easily. I always re-write /tweak but its nice when 80% just seems to flow on first take.

 

My most recent tune has been kicking around for weeks with the key musical sections recorded and a few decent verses written. In this case I was half improvising when I tracked the guitar part and I diverged from the usual song structures. It seemed to work musically so I tried to work with it. It was something like: intro ABCAB.

 

However, the more I struggled to fit a half decent lyric into this off-kilter structure the more frustrating it became.

I just could not make the song "click/coalease".

There was not enough room to really set up the chorus.

It drove me nuts.

 

This AM I had a breakthrough when I focused on the structure rather than trying to wordsmith in the context of a poor structure.

 

The logjam cleared and new words " flowed" right into into the improved structure. Now it feels right: (introABABCAB)

 

There really is something mystical/magical about the standard song structures. They work.

[blue2blue]

I'm thinking the B part is your chorus/refrain?

 

 

I tend to write, arrange, and record in a fairly spontaneous, non-doctrinaire fashion (some would call it "slapdash")...

 

But I do often find myself coming back to something like AABABAB or AABABCAB or occasionally AABABCB, where "B" is the chorus/refrain and "C" is a bridge/solo/middle 8 (or rarely 16) kind of thing.

[Kendrix]

 

Originally posted by blue2blue I'm thinking the B part is your chorus/refrain? I tend to write, arrange, and record in a fairly spontaneous, non-doctrinaire fashion (some would call it "slapdash")... But I do often find myself coming back to something like AABABAB or AABABCAB or occasionally AABABCB, where "B" is the chorus/refrain and "C" is a bridge/solo/middle 8 (or rarely 16) kind of thing.

 

 

Yep. B would be the chorus.

[Lee Flier]

Hmm I dunno. I've had "standard" structures work after trying a nonstandard one, but I've also had nonstandard ones "work" after trying a standard one. I have quite a few songs where there's more than one bit that never repeats, or is a slight variation on a repeating part but not exactly the same... etc.

 

I do think you're right that you have to go with what fits the song. If you're struggling to finish a song because you thought up some weird structure that you're trying to enforce, then you're right to try something "different" (in this case, a standard structure). But if you're trying a standard structure and it's a struggle lyrically or otherwise, then maybe a little "shakeup" in the structure is exactly what's needed. I try not to be too pedantic about it either way but just try to feel the flow and see if it feels right.

[Kendrix]

Originally posted by Lee Flier Hmm I dunno. I've had "standard" structures work after trying a nonstandard one, but I've also had nonstandard ones "work" after trying a standard one. I have quite a few songs where there's more than one bit that never repeats, or is a slight variation on a repeating part but not exactly the same... etc. I do think you're right that you have to go with what fits the song. If you're struggling to finish a song because you thought up some weird structure that you're trying to enforce, then you're right to try something "different" (in this case, a standard structure). But if you're trying a standard structure and it's a struggle lyrically or otherwise, then maybe a little "shakeup" in the structure is exactly what's needed. I try not to be too pedantic about it either way but just try to feel the flow and see if it feels right.

 

 

Hey Lee - long time.

 

Yes. I have had the same experience.

I have a few songs that have some non-standard or non-repeating bits in them or a fundamentally unusual structure.

However, those are fairly rare exceptions.

98% of the time the standard structures seems to be "what the song wants".

 

The few times Ive had a pro songwriter critique a tune they commented on structure. I had the impression that if I didnt pass that test they would have thrown up on the tune. It seems there is a good reason they look at tunes through this lens.

 

Of course, this only applies to pop/rock or country tunes.

Jazz, New age or classical is a whole 'nother bowl of spaghetti.

I wonder - What would Sun Ra have to say??

[Tusks]

The mystic and magic, is what the listener brings to it, as opposed to an intrinsic value. ABAB is primal. I think A, A1, A2 (theme and variation) is even more primal. The more complicated your form, the more you need another compelling reason for it.

 

Occasionally you get an exception like Bohemian Rhapsody which appears to break the rules. But the dramatic line of the song is compelling, and so we allow ourselves to suspend the primal need for form.

 

The listener is typically not listening actively for form and structure. Therefore, being creative with form doesn't have an emotional value, unless the unusual form you utilize is tightly tied to the message of the song.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jerry