Members Scafeets Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 I was speaking of the realestate / property taxes. In my area, it's become the rule, not the exception, for townships to waive a standard 20-year "no real estate / property taxes" to box stores like best buy, target, wal-mart, and many other chains JUST to get them to put up the business in their township, in the hopes that 20 years down the road, they can finally make some tax $$ off them. It was once 2-3 year deals, but then townships started competing with each other. What we have now is townships FULL of box stores, and along side of them are just smaller chain stores - and the mom and pops are literally gone. (really, this is textbook facism.. but that's another argument).. So who IS paying the property (especially school) taxes? I will answer that by disclosing the *new* "per capita" school tax, assessable to EVERYONE (over 18) who lives in the township, regardless if they even have a job, or how much they make. So me and the housewife both get to pay "school tax part 2", even though we already paid it through the property taxes, but since none of the businesses pay anymore, gotta make up for it some where.Am I not the only one who sees where it's leading. Rich get richer, pay less tax... poor get poorer, pay more tax... I would have to agree that "corporatism" is an American fact of life -- but calling it "fascism"(TEXTBOOK fascism at that) just makes us lefties sound kinda shrill and clueless. Since textbook fascism includes values like one-party rule, complete authoritarianism and a healthy dose of xenophobic nationalism, let's just say that what we have now is an unrestrained, unregulated economy that needs to be controlled a bit more for the greater good. Even with the obvious flaws, I believe that most economic development tax breaks are good for the little guy. While the Mom & Pop hardware store can get hurt in the crossfire, you can't argue with Home Depot coming to town and creating 150 direct jobs (plus construction and vendor employment.) Unlike housing, big box store ADD tax revenue (payroll, sales, corporate and licensing taxes , to name a few) to the community without adding cost. The relatively chump change lost in property tax is inevitably offset by these added jobs and revenues. While I would like to champion "the little guy" -- the sad fact remains that small retailers pay {censored}, rarely give their employees benefits or profit sharing and provide consumers with less variety for higher costs than do the chain retailers. This explains why local Chambers of Commerce almost always oppose both the incursion of big retailers AND the attraction of other industry (manufacturing, distribution, call centers, etc.)While they won't say it, these local-retailer dominated organizations don't want to compete for labor with larger companies who provide higher wages and better benefits. So, unless you're a smart local retailer with a social conscience, please stand in line behind the family farm; because I don't want to pay list price for my next amp or $5 for my next bag of carrots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeuceyBaby Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well yeah.. sucks, but that is life. Can't argue there. we build more character though over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 I would have to agree that "corporatism" is an American fact of life -- but calling it "fascism"(TEXTBOOK fascism at that) just makes us lefties sound kinda shrill and clueless. Since textbook fascism includes values like one-party rule, complete authoritarianism and a healthy dose of xenophobic nationalism, let's just say that what we have now is an unrestrained, unregulated economy that needs to be controlled a bit more for the greater good. I'd argue this topic-One party rule - all of our (republicans and democrats) accept campaign funding from the same corporations. They have garnered a system that if we vote out a corporate shill, the only options on the ballot are more corporate shills. Obama is the perhaps the most glaring example of being sold "integrity" and given "more of the same" Complete authoritarianism- With the patriot act, warantless wiretaps, etc.. you don't think ANY person can be black-bagged at any time, without ever seeing a lawyer, trail, or anyone ever knowing what happened to them? The relative chances of it happening are pointless to argue as much as the fact that such acts are now perfectly (and unconstitutionally) legal? It's not a matter of "IF" someone in power chooses to abuse the privledges, but when. The patriot act, which was sold to america under the premise that it was for terrorism ONLY, has since been used for countless domestic operations, and arrests have been made for crimes having nothing to do with terrorism. So it's already being abused, and out in the open. I don't know how much more authoritarian you can be without actually making a move to seize power such as hitler did (NOT comparing ANYONE to hitler here...just using the circumstance as an example) "healthy dose of xenophobic nationalism"-The illegal invasion of Iraq and continued occupation of two countries, based on fears of 'another 911' don't count towards that? The only step we haven't completed is actually closing our borders to EVERYONE. We certainly detain those we deem suspicious, sometimes for years, based on nothing but profiling and bigotry. You have some good points, but your litmus test requires that we are actually a nationalist-facist xenophobic disaster before considering that we might be leaning that way or end up in that eventuality. Here's a good article (really long) to show there's certainly enough to warrant major concern. Feel free to read and discuss. But please don't discredit it and then deny it's implications without reading... http://www.alternet.org/world/51150/?page=entire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'd argue this topic- One party rule - all of our (republicans and democrats) accept campaign funding from the same corporations. They have garnered a system that if we vote out a corporate shill, the only options on the ballot are more corporate shills. Obama is the perhaps the most glaring example of being sold "integrity" and given "more of the same" Complete authoritarianism- With the patriot act, warantless wiretaps, etc.. you don't think ANY person can be black-bagged at any time, without ever seeing a lawyer, trail, or anyone ever knowing what happened to them? The relative chances of it happening are pointless to argue as much as the fact that such acts are now perfectly (and unconstitutionally) legal? It's not a matter of "IF" someone in power chooses to abuse the privledges, but when. The patriot act, which was sold to america under the premise that it was for terrorism ONLY, has since been used for countless domestic operations, and arrests have been made for crimes having nothing to do with terrorism. So it's already being abused, and out in the open. I don't know how much more authoritarian you can be without actually making a move to seize power such as hitler did (NOT comparing ANYONE to hitler here...just using the circumstance as an example) "healthy dose of xenophobic nationalism"- The illegal invasion of Iraq and continued occupation of two countries, based on fears of 'another 911' don't count towards that? The only step we haven't completed is actually closing our borders to EVERYONE. We certainly detain those we deem suspicious, sometimes for years, based on nothing but profiling and bigotry. You have some good points, but your litmus test requires that we are actually a nationalist-facist xenophobic disaster before considering that we might be leaning that way or end up in that eventuality. Here's a good article (really long) to show there's certainly enough to warrant major concern. Feel free to read and discuss. But please don't discredit it and then deny it's implications without reading... http://www.alternet.org/world/51150/?page=entire We agree that the U.S. is on a slippery slope toward a more fascist-like society --- I just don't think that we've completely slid into the {censored} quite yet. Any casual reading of what it was like in Mussolini's Italy, Salgado's Brazil or Franco's Spain will tell you our current crop of political bozos have a long way to go before they reach that level of FUBAR. And I'm sure we can agree that things don't remotely compare to the Third Reich. With that in mind, I suggest you reconsider the idea that tax breaks for big boxes is in some way a manifestation of fascism. When you do the social math, they bring a hell of a lot more good than evil to a community. (Disclosure) I don't work for a retailer or have a dog in this fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 hey it's all good- I'm just seeing a lot of rich get richer and poor get poorer my way these days. I'm not entirely thrilled to be on the losing team. At least I got my music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EmeeBee1982 Posted December 2, 2009 Members Share Posted December 2, 2009 Is this anything like that King of the Hill episode where Strickland Propane gets in a price fixing war and the guys from American Chopper show up to save everything? Sorry, I watch too much TV Hahaha , this made me giggle.. AND I thought Musician's Friend owned H-C.. We're good there, to my knowledge! But with MF And GC always sucking the others woohoo WHO KNOWS anymore! LOL sorry that was obscene! ..Not really. Probably as obscene as this.... -----> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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