Members baimun Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 For your viewing and educational pleasure, may I present four assorted members of the Floyd Rose, double locking tremolo Family: The first one is an older, original Floyd rose... The black example is a made in Germany Schaller Floyd... Our satin example is basically a Floyd Rose Pro from a Jackson... and our last example is your typical "Licensed by" floyd. Before I get into the similarities and differences, I'd like to look at a component that is often overlooked, but contributes to much of the tone and tuning stability of the better Floyd trems. Early floyds used a knife edge wood screw, but often the holes would wear and they'd get loose. Eventually a replaceable grommet was put in that could adjust the bridge height. The earliest Floyds used very long screws with very fine threads. IMO, these are the most solid and stable. Better versions also use the fine tuning threads, but often have smaller grommets and/or shorter pivot bolts. Most of the import floyd copies use coarser threads which often wobble, causing a loss in sustain, inconsistancy in action, and less subtle adjustment. Since the German made Schaller is the closest to the original, I'll compare them first. They both have steel base plates and steel tone blocks. The original has a larger, longer tone block because it was designed to sit up above a non-recessed strat body and usually rest against it's surface. Usually a3 degree neck angle is needed for proper string action. The schaller one has similar tone and quality, but is a bit more compact and low profile. Earlier trems had thread in or pop in arms. Most of the mid to later models have the drop-in arms with threaded collars. The Floyd Pros were also low profile, but made some interesting changes. The saddle locking screw is directly behind the saddle instead of on the tail end of the bridge, and the fine tuners are moved further out to the end to prevent accidental bumping. Originally the straight locking pin out the back of the saddle was pressed up and down by the fine tuner screw, tipping the saddle back for fine-tune adjustment. The Pro uses an angled arm that is beneath the main plate but requires a recessed tremolo route to allow room for the saddles to move. With the generic "Licensed by" trem, it LOOKS like it's built the same, but it's made of lighter metals including a pot metal tone block. The lack of mass is detrimental to sustain and doesn't transfer nearly the tone to the body. The softer metals often have the screws strip out, and the fine tuners do not fit nearly as well. Bottom Line: Not all Floyds are created equally. Regardless of if your tremolo is an Original Floyd, a Schaller made, Ibanez, or some other... look for the quality parts. The pivot bolts should NOT BE LOOSE. Finer threads will hold their action better and ultimately have less play and wobble. the better materials that are used, the better sustain and tone... so do not judge all Floyd tremolos based on a "Licensed By" on a $400 instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flyboy Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acravero Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Great post! Another couple popular ones to add to the list (since a lot of folks will probably check out this post) are the Ibanez Edge/lo-pro edge and Floyd Rose II. I'm not sure where you'd put the Edge--probably lumped in with the Schaller. The Schaller is pretty much the same as the newer "Floyd Rose II" trems, but don't confuse this with the OLD Floyd Rose II trems, which were single-locking and completely terrible at staying in tune. Plus, the knife-edges went dull very quickly on them. The "bad" FRII's are the ones that have the square/tubular fine tuner protrusions where you just slip in the ball-end of the string. Since this end didn't lock, these trems are notorious for not holding tuning well. This is the single-locking FRII:http://www.vintagekramer.com/parts/floydII.jpg It's really quite annoying when people list "Floyd Rose Trem" on a guitar when it is clearly a copy. Be careful when purchasing, b/c some sellers (especially on e-bay) seem to think "licensed by floyd rose" trems and "floyd rose" trems are synonymous! Some more good Floyd resource pages:http://www.vintagekramer.com/parts6.htmhttp://electricguitar.50megs.com/tremolo.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lloop9 Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Thks for the great post & pixs baimun! Does the floyd pros come wif hardened steel plate like the original? I also heard the string spacing is narrower? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gabi Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 great post, thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members choklitlove Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 i had a horrible experience with a licensed floyd rose that came on a squier stagemaster. that thing broke all over the place (and i'm not a shredder or an abuser). it actually turned me off to the whole floyd rose idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members satannica Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Originally posted by choklitlove i had a horrible experience with a licensed floyd rose that came on a squier stagemaster. that thing broke all over the place (and i'm not a shredder or an abuser). it actually turned me off to the whole floyd rose idea. Another potential floyd rose warrior - lost at the hands of a cheap immitation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheDarxide Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Originally posted by choklitlove i had a horrible experience with a licensed floyd rose that came on a squier stagemaster. that thing broke all over the place (and i'm not a shredder or an abuser). it actually turned me off to the whole floyd rose idea. The one on my stage master is perfect, the best i have. I can stick a steel ruler under the locking bolts, restring, tune, take it out, fine tune and done. Some of mine, particularly my BC Rich ones, need fine tuning for bloody hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Originally posted by satannica Another potential floyd rose warrior - lost at the hands of a cheap immitation! That leaves more good Floyds for the rest of us! Like this little beauty I picked up for $50 on ebay. It going on my Dillion with locking tuners and graphite nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members baimun Posted June 21, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Oooh... I love those older ones without the fine tuners. GREAT FIND! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members XXX Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Another well made one are the Kahler lic by Floyds . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Originally posted by baimun Oooh... I love those older ones without the fine tuners.GREAT FIND! Thanks. I wanted one of these for the Dillion because I didn't want to put a locking nut on it. It stays in tune ok but the factory trem doesn't return exactly to zero due to soft knife edges. This should cure it.This one was dirty and the chrome was worn off the lower 3 saddles but the knife edges are perfect. The steel on real Floyds is nearly indestructible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members baimun Posted June 21, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 In case the pivot studs you have aren't up to the task, Guitar Parts Depot has the fine threaded original floyd rose studs and inserts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Originally posted by baimun In case the pivot studs you have aren't up to the task, Guitar Parts Depot has the fine threaded original floyd rose studs and inserts. Hey thanks for that. I've been looking for those. I didn't want to use the Floyd wood screws. I noticed they also had those allen wrench holders so I ordered one of those too. Good job on this thread BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sparky6string Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 I have a licensed one on my MIJ Fernandes Revolver probably from the 80's and I like it. Great sustain and stays in tune well. If it ever explodes on me like choklitlove's though my opinion will probably change. Wish I knew who made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members baimun Posted June 21, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 If it's 80's then it's very likely that it's a Schaller one. There weren't too many manufacturers at that point. Take a look at the tone block underneath and see if it's hard, shiny steel or if it's rough, porous cast metal. When the Japanese guitars started taking off, then the knock-offs started rolling in and much of the quality suffered and/or reputations were tarnished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrfan Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Excellent, Informative thread. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sparky6string Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Originally posted by baimun If it's 80's then it's very likely that it's a Schaller one. There weren't too many manufacturers at that point.Take a look at the tone block underneath and see if it's hard, shiny steel or if it's rough, porous cast metal.When the Japanese guitars started taking off, then the knock-offs started rolling in and much of the quality suffered and/or reputations were tarnished. It's not cast. It looks like brass almost. Just noticed that its either got a PW or JM on it in a design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members choklitlove Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 the one i'm talking about was black and it was on a very recent (couple years ago, probably) black quilt top stagemaster. this experience also turned me off to squier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metal|Boy Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Great post indeed. How is that Jackson Floyd comapred to the OFR? I'm getting Jackson RX10D which has the JT580 licensed floyd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ValveReaper Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Great Thread thanks baimun for putting in the time and info into the thread a followup on how to set floyds(Type) up from scratch! would be much appreciated;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members baimun Posted June 21, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 If that is an import Jackson you're referring to, then I'm afraid you're going to have the same trem that you see above (#4.) That was mercifully disected from a DX series Jackson and replaced by a higher quality Schaller unit. The keys to look at are the size and threads of the pivot posts, any play in the fine tuners, and if the tone block of the bridge is the rough cast metal. The lighter bridge will sound tinny and won't sustain like a steel unit. If you keep your eyes peeled, you may be able to find a vintage replacement for 60-70 on ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonP Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Cool post. I'd like to hear more about the "tonal" differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members baimun Posted June 21, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Originally posted by ValveReaper Great Thread thanks baimun for putting in the time and info into the thread a followup on how to set floyds(Type) up from scratch! would be much appreciated;) You want to see how to install them or just set them up? I've got a fool proof method that many people miss when setting up a floating bridge. 1) I find a wedge that will set the bridge at the correct angle I'm looking for. I usually set the bridge slightly back so the saddles sit level. 2) I then tighten the springs enough to hold the block in there nice and tight. This way as you tune up the strings the bridge won't 'give' and tip up into the air. 3) If you can't easily tighten the strings into the saddles, just put the arm in the trem, dive the trem, and the lock pegs at the end of the bridge are right out there in the open. You can even attach all six strings even before you put them in the tuners. Just put the block back in place and let the bridge back down. 4) You can tune one string at a time and check the intonation. The bridge won't float around because you've locked it against the wooden block with the springs, remember? 5) If the intonation (harmonic at the 7th and 12th frets versus the pitch of those notes) is off, you can either loosen that string, unlatch the saddle and move it, or you can dive the trem with one hand and adjust the saddle with the other. 6) once all the saddles are intonated and the strings are all tuned to pitch, Dive the trem and remove the block. Most likely the bridge will pull back into the route and all the strings will be sharp. Simple loosen the trem screws in back until the springs lighten up and all the strings are in tune again. (you returned the bridge to the same position it was with the block in there.) Voila. No messing with the bridge floating back and forth while trying to tune and intonate. It's also easy to put an 'L' bracket in place of the center spring, use only the outside springs, and have a set screw that can block the bridge. If you want it to float, then just back that screw off and adjust the springs. If you want to brace the bridge for dive only, just move that screw out to where you want the bridge to be and tighten the springs down. The bridge will only be able to dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted June 21, 2005 Members Share Posted June 21, 2005 Originally posted by ValveReaper Great Threadthanks baimun for putting in the time and info into the threada followup on how to set floyds(Type) up from scratch! would be much appreciated;) Good idea. I might be able to write somthing like that up this weekend.Or you can use this:http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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