Members gubu Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 People,What is the, uh, deal with this company?I got green lighted by them in may, signed up and sent the contract and my CD and have not heard a word from them since. My account page is still saying 'music received-awaiting review' since may 25th. Are they still in business or are they always this slow getting back to songwriters?Has anyone else here dealt with them and if so, how was your experience? I only submitted to them on a whim but when they green lighted me and got me to sign a contract, I was expecting to hear something back. Not a sausage, what's the story?
Members Synonym Music Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 Never heard of them. Occasionally you'll see them on shows that require a large variety of music for every episode - educational saturday morning stuff where the tune changes every 10 seconds.
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 They're very, very slow on the business end Gubu. They're a film music library. Getty Images bought them out a while back. I signed 20 tracks with them two years ago. It took them a year to register them with ASCAP, even though I was getting several placements with them on WE Network, Travel Channel, and Discovery. They recently dropped the composer's share of lincensing from 50% to 35%. The writer's PRO royalties remain the same. They have a non-exclusive clause in their contract, so you can also publish your tracks with other non-exclusive publishers. If you want to make money, sign-up with several film libraries with as many tracks as you can. Good luck with them. Best, John
Members mgv1 Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 Also, check out http://www.themusicsnob.com/2008/10/06/pump-audios-retitle-publishing-music-licensing/ I am wondering how much exactly this retitling policy impacts the songwriter's ultimate return. I've considered the alternative route of going thru an actual music publisher. The details of percentages usually boils down to 50/50, which is the alternative to pitching\promoting your own music and self-publishing.
Members mgv1 Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 Johnny-Boy - Just wondering how much income was realized from the 20 song batch from Pump, and from the whole group of non-exclusive libraries totaled. Also, which other libraries are recommended. Thanks
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 Johnny-Boy - Just wondering how much income was realized from the 20 song batch from Pump, and from the whole group of non-exclusive libraries totaled. Also, which other libraries are recommended. Thanks Without divulging my fraudulent tax returns, the Pump licensing fees at 35% are rather low. However, my ASCAP royalty’s are usually much better. That’s why I mentioned using as many of the film music libraries as possible. And produce a {censored} load of tracks. Just to put royalties in perspective (without sharing my private business); it depends on if your track is used as a theme (can be big bucks), or just background to scenes, whether it’s primetime / off-time, duration of track used, how many re-runs, etc., etc… One of my tracks was used for three years on primetime “Dateline NBC”. It generated $80 for every 12 seconds of play (that was great). “Travel in Style” (ABC), played in the middle of the night. Only 1/10 the pay-out as Dateline (but it’s been 4 years and still going). These two tracks weren’t Pump Audio tracks though. Pump got me plays on “The Secret Lives of Women”, “Extreme Sea World, a holiday special on the Travel Channel, several others that haven’t showed up on my ASCAP statements yet. Often you won’t know where your music is being played until the PRO royalty statement arrives (6 months behind the play date). The Bad Girls Club used one of my tracks. It was re-played several times. Now I just received a notice from ASCAP that it’s being played in Norway, Sweden, Canada, and the UK. Not sure what kind of rates will be generated from that. But every niche and cranny adds to the pay-off. I’ve also received licensing fees from Pump from an array of clients where ASCAP royalties don’t kick in. Licensing like “Photobucket ( a lot of these kind of uses: http://s430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/___who___/?action=view¤t=1b1b10d8.pbr , student films, etc. I even had a large Newspaper in Bosnia license one of my Creepy Xmas tracks (have no idea what they used it for). So there are many instances where you won’t get royalties from your PRO, only licensing fees. It’s very difficult to collect on Internet use. How much one earns on a given track is calculated through a hodgepodge of variables. Can’t be more specific than that. The money isn't my key factor anyway. I just want to have my music used and listened to. Hope this gives you a general idea. Don't be too proud to except the scraps until something substantial comes along - I'm not. Best, John
Members mgv1 Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 Thanks very much for the wealth of info! I have some music still being classified in the Pump catalog after acceptance and have not yet decided to sign the new agreement for the new split. I haven't tried outplacing the same tunes to other online library outfits yet. I did it as my first marketing experiment to primarily see if the music met broadcast quality standards and was musically qualified for commercial use. I have wanted to also approach non-library, non-online publishers for other more commercially radio-friendly songs, but am squeamish about signing contracts without a music attorney (which is not in my budget). I wish more people had experience with that ballpark to share with newbies in the biz.
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 Thanks very much for the wealth of info!I have some music still being classified in the Pump catalog after acceptance and have not yet decided to sign the new agreement for the new split. I haven't tried outplacing the same tunes to other online library outfits yet.I did it as my first marketing experiment to primarily see if the music met broadcast quality standards and was musically qualified for commercial use. I have wanted to also approach non-library, non-online publishers for other more commercially radio-friendly songs, but am squeamish about signing contracts without a music attorney (which is not in my budget). I wish more people had experience with that ballpark to share with newbies in the biz. My pleasure Remember as long as the film libraries have a non-exclusive clause, you can submit the same tracks to different publishers. Some of my tracks I have in several libraries. Some of my publishers are exclusive, so be careful and keep good records where your music is at. I just had a problem with one of my exclusive companies. I sent some of their tracks to a different publisher (just as examples of my work), without thoroughly reading their contract. They showed up registered with ASCAP with both publishers. A clause in the second contract stated that any music they received from me was automatically covered under the original contract. Fortunately the original publisher called them and straightened it out (after I alerted them), but this could've cost me. Read your contracts thoroughly. Good luck, John
Members mgv1 Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 Thanks If there are any hints about how to narrow down the search for a reputable exclusive publisher or any info on sizing up contracts, it would sure be helpful. Thanks again, Mike
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 15, 2009 Members Posted August 15, 2009 Thanks If there are any hints about how to narrow down the search for a reputable exclusive publisher or any info on sizing up contracts, it would sure be helpful. Thanks again, Mike There aren't too many "exclusive" film music libraries left. However try some of these non-exclusive ones: Crucial Music, Transition Music (exclusive), 1,000 Tracks, Scorekeepers Music, Musync, DSM Producers; there are so many. You can Google and find more. As long as they're non-exclusiive you don't have to tie your tracks up with one deadbeat library. Get your music in as many as possible. And make sure you understand their contracts!!! Best, John:)
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 27, 2009 Members Posted August 27, 2009 Here's a website that gathers reports from user experiences with music libraries. It's in it's early stages, but I'm sure the reporting will grow.http://musiclibraryreport.com/ Here's their list of music libraries so far: 615 MusicAPMAudioMicroAudioSparxBeatpickCarlin MusicComposer CollectiveCrucial MusicDeadly Dreams MusicFirstComIndie Cues MusicInDigi MusicMusic DealersMusic Licensing of Hol...MusicLoops.comMusicSupervisor.comMyMusicSourceProducer's Tool BoxProductiontraxPump AudioRumblefishSoundfile ProductionsYouLicense
Members Karma1 Posted August 27, 2009 Members Posted August 27, 2009 Johnny-Boy - thanks for that list of music libraries! As far as Pump Audio, I was green lighted, and all set to submit my music to them when I decided to Google them and do some research on other people's experiences with them. What I found was a whole lot of people that were very unhappy with them. One issue was that a lot of people who signed on with them and had a contract to receive 50% got knocked down to 35% when the company decided to change their policy. For someone coming in now under the 35% rate who agrees to that is one thing. But if you have signed contract to receive 50% I can understand being pissed off at getting knocked down to 35%, which is quite low compared to other companies. There was also another issue that had something to do with them reserving the right to re-title your songs and make money on them. I don't fully understand that whole thing, so I don't want to put out any mis-information. But I know that how ever it works, a lot of people were upset about it.
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 27, 2009 Members Posted August 27, 2009 Hey Karma! Yeah, that 15% drop in licensing fees was a punch in the nose. However, most these libraries (including Pump) are non-exclusive, which means you can sign these same tracks with other libraries (the more the better). That's the reason they re-title your tracks. So the PRO royalties are funneled to the company responsible for the placements. When libraries re-title your tracks, they most often use a prefix before the original title, e.g., my "Beauty Within Ugliness" is re-titled "QMIX Beauty Within Ugliness" for this particular company. One of my Pump Audio tracks titled "Dracula's Heart" is re-titled "PUMP AUDIO 95875". This way when one of Pump Audio's clients place that track, the client will use this re-titling when notifying the PRO, thus, the royalties will go to Pump and myself for that particular placement. Now when another company uses this same track, they will use a different prefix (or #), and then that placement will be credited to that company (and myself). The writer will always be credited with the placements from all companies they’re under contract with. Best, John
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 27, 2009 Members Posted August 27, 2009 Here are some more that aren't on the list. I'm not making any recommendations though. They could come back and bite me. royaltyfreemusic.com shockwave-sound.com indie911.com iamusic.com nonstopmusic.com songcatalog.com licensemusic.com davenportmusic.com I guess you're getting the picture of how these libraries are growing. I'm thinking about starting one myself. If I do, I would keep 100% of the licensing fees, and the writer would get 100% of the PRO royalties. It’s a simple arrangement that requires very little book work. I would then go the blanket licensing route. For instance; leasing my entire CD library to NBC, ABC, etc at a fixed price for X number of months. Best, John
Members mgv1 Posted August 28, 2009 Members Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks again for shedding some light on the music libraries, Johnny-Boy, your input is appreciated! I've wondered if anyone knows if it's necessary or desirable to be signed on with a PRO like ASCAP, BMI before getting songs to libraries. I also am interested to know if anyone has tried submitting music to publishers listed in the Songwriters Market books (annually published). I don't think those publishers are libraries, but own exclusive rights over the music via their contract and may be more specific in their market targets. There is usually more of a protocol to follow to prepare to submit demos to bypass "no unsolicited etc.etc." Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 28, 2009 Members Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks again for shedding some light on the music libraries, Johnny-Boy, your input is appreciated!I've wondered if anyone knows if it's necessary or desirable to be signed on with a PRO like ASCAP, BMI before getting songs to libraries. I also am interested to know if anyone has tried submitting music to publishers listed in the Songwriters Market books (annually published). I don't think those publishers are libraries, but own exclusive rights over the music via their contract and may be more specific in their market targets. There is usually more of a protocol to follow to prepare to submit demos to bypass "no unsolicited etc.etc." Any feedback is appreciated.Thanks Personally I don't think joining a PRO prior to getting public performances (TV, Film, etc) is of much value. Also, as I stated before, most film music libraries will re-titled your tracks, so registering them yourself would be for naught. The “Songwriters Market” started out as a good source of legitimate contacts in the Industry. I used it many times in its early years. But each year I saw the legit publishers/record companies pulling their listings out, and I was receiving more and more scams. You know the type; we love your song and want to make a good demo to send to our contacts in the Industry. Please send us $200 to cover your cost of the demo (and we’ll send you 10 copies). The last several years it has been filled with scams, wannabes, and dead ends. Funny, someone down the street from me listed as a publisher a couple years back in SM. I had to laugh when he was giving advice to songwriters. This man had no capability what-so-ever in getting songs cut. He just wanted to play the big shot. I imagine there are some of the Independent type honest listings yet, if you could figure a way to filter out all the garbage. Best, John:cool:
Members artmuns Posted August 28, 2009 Members Posted August 28, 2009 Hi Folks, I've been getting a great response to our new site www.musiclibraryreport.com. Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. We now have about 115 music libraries up there for you to comment on and rate. You don't need to use your real name or e-mail when commenting if you would like to remain anonymous. I'm hoping the site will help all of us music creators when working with the various libraries. Knowledge is power and I believe peer review is a great way to build that knowledge. Take care Art Munsonwww.musiclibraryreport.com
Members Johnny-Boy Posted August 28, 2009 Members Posted August 28, 2009 Holy Cow! The list really grew in the last 24 hours. Look: Abaco Production Music... AirCraft Music Library Allstar Library Amusicom APM Audio Network Producti... Audio Socket Music Audiobag AudioFormula AudioMicro AudioSparx B&H Gold Production Mu... Beatpick BeatSuite Beyond Music Library Blish BMG Zomba Production M... Buyout Music Tracks Canary Music Carlin Music Chris Worth Productions Composer Collective Contempo Music Crank City Crucial Music CSS Music D2 Music Davenport Music Library Deadly Dreams Music DeWolfe Music Dittybase DL Music Elasticmusic ExtremeMusic Feature Sounds Fields Music FirstCom Flying Hands Freeplay Music Fresh Music GBA Music Gene Michael Productio... iamusic IB Audio Immediate Music Indie Cues Music indie911 InDigi Music Instant Download Music JULIA JOHN MUSIC Killer Tracks KPM Labelsound Lazertrax LicenseMusic Magnatune Manchester Music Manhattan Production M... Media Music Now Metro Music Production... Music 2 Hues Music Dealers Music Licensing of Hol... MusicLoops MusicSupervisor.com Musync MyMusicSource Neosounds Net Music Library Non Stop Music Omnimusic Opus 1 Music Library Opuzz Partners in Rhyme Premium Beat Producer's Tool Box Production Garden Productiontrax Pump Audio Q Music Royalty-Free.tv RoyaltyFreeMusic RSM Production Music Rumblefish Scorekeeper Music ScreenMusic Production... shockwave-sound Signature Music Slick Tracks SmartSound SmashTrax Song Catalog Sound Dogs Sound Ideas Soundfile Productions Stock 20 StockMusic Studio Cutz Production... SuperSound SyncFree The Music Kitchen TRF Production Music TunEdge Music Uncommon Trax Unique Tracks Universal Music Produc... Valentino Inc. Videohelper Westar Music YookaMusic YouLicense
Members rlm297 Posted September 2, 2009 Members Posted September 2, 2009 So, a band would first sign up for ASCAP and then contact all of those individual Music Library companies, going through the motions of filling out forms and submitting a CD to each? Then if your music is used, by any broadcast.. they'd send you royalty checks and a breakdown of where your music was used? Please answer this. Why wouldn't someone want to do this?What exactly is "the catch"?
Members RickGoetz Posted September 10, 2009 Members Posted September 10, 2009 I did an interview with the CEO of Crucial music recently. I hope you find it helpful.
Members mgv1 Posted September 15, 2009 Members Posted September 15, 2009 I just wanted to see if there's any opinion about the changed rate of Pump Audio's contract in terms of real impact: it seems that the change from 50/50 to 35/65 has created a stir, but how much does it affect total income? In other words, are the royalty payments the main thing where music libraries are concerned - does anyone know what percentage of income from a song is from the licensing split vs the royalties over time? If anyone has experience with this, any feedback is appreciated.
Members Kramerguy Posted September 15, 2009 Members Posted September 15, 2009 Then if your music is used, by any broadcast.. they'd send you royalty checks and a breakdown of where your music was used?Please answer this. Why wouldn't someone want to do this?What exactly is "the catch"? The catch(es) are: - You need to have well-produced tracks, depending on the style of music (and pay for studio time)- You also pay submission fees per month, or per song (taxi) for sending material into the library.- There's no guarantee that your music will be accepted into the library- You might not be good enough, and just throwing money at it won't change the outcome.
Members gubu Posted January 15, 2010 Author Members Posted January 15, 2010 The catch(es) are:- You need to have well-produced tracks, depending on the style of music (and pay for studio time)- You also pay submission fees per month, or per song (taxi) for sending material into the library.- There's no guarantee that your music will be accepted into the library- You might not be good enough, and just throwing money at it won't change the outcome. Also, you have no control over how your music is used, so you could, for instance, find your music used on a tv ad campaign for your most hated political party. I'm not saying it's ever happened, but it might....
Members Johnny-Boy Posted March 4, 2011 Members Posted March 4, 2011 So, a band would first sign up for ASCAP and then contact all of those individual Music Library companies, going through the motions of filling out forms and submitting a CD to each?Then if your music is used, by any broadcast.. they'd send you royalty checks and a breakdown of where your music was used?Please answer this. Why wouldn't someone want to do this?What exactly is "the catch"? No catch Rim! Not only PRO royalties but usually 50% of the licensing fees you'll receive. Wow, this post is rather old. Sorry we waited so long to give you an answer. This post came up with a search for future retitling issues with your PRO's. John:cool:
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