An article wondering what happened to today's music

[franknputer]

If she's referring to the Staggers Act (deregulation of airlines, radio, etc.) that was signed by Jimmy Carter.

 

Nope - the Staggers Act, signed by Carter, deregulated the railroads, not radio. The latter was Reagan's doing.

[Prog]

Nope - the Staggers Act, signed by Carter, deregulated the railroads, not radio. The latter was Reagan's doing.

 

 

That's why I said, "If". However, deregulation was in the air under Carter and his Congress. Deregulating railroads, airlines, the airwaves, telecommunications (the breakup of "Ma Bell") were all hatched in the late 1970s.

[kurdy]

The majority of pop music songwriters of the last 50 years brag about being untrained. Neither Lennon or McCartney had any education of repute in music. Most rock, etc. musicians on these forums brag that "educated" musicians can only play from sheet music and cannot improvise. So, that's been a good thing, correct?

 

 

 

They actually say that? Since when does being able to read music prohibit you from improvisation? I would think that it helps.

 

Lennon & McCartney earned the right to brag, because so much of the stuff they wrote sounded like they knew what they were doing. Irving Berlin too.

 

But too many aspiring musicians who say they weren't formally trained sound like it.

 

I don't brag about my lack of musical training, because I don't think it's anything to brag about. I would love to be able to say I was "classically trained". And I think it would come in handy to be able to read music, because what you learn through reading, you can apply to your improvisation. At least that's my theory.

 

Even though I flunked out as a music major in college, I do know some theory, which comes in handy, because I feel like I have more control over writing music. Otherwise, it's a matter of getting lucky and stumbling onto something, which isn't very reliable.

[2180]

I don't know if the young people have "eureka" moments like the one I want to describe to you now........back in the mid-seventies after I started driving a car(my dads station wagon), I came upon an old drive-in movie park, it was strange, because it looked really OLD and it was SMALL and almost right in the city.

Of course it was falling apart and in ruin, dirty and wasting away in the great dust-heap of progress, but, about the time I noticed this, an Al Green song came-on the radio and me being into RnR suddenly it hit me how different and beautiful and truthful it was, just like that old little drive-in.

Now, it seems like everything is just a complete madhouse of grabbing and running from place-to-place, always someone on your ass on the road or cutting you off, etc. I truly think it's the simplicity of life that allows the complex beautiful thing to enter the mind and we just don't have those kind of moments unless you go sit in a closet and turn it all off stoned on something.

So, sure, kill all the lawyers, psychologists, realestate developers and CEO's and give us some peace in our lives again!

[Cry Logic]

They actually say that? Since when does being able to read music prohibit you from improvisation? I would think that it helps.

 

 

It's been my experience that musicians who can "read" , generally

have a lot more difficulty improvising/jamming.

 

Classical musicians are the worst... they can sit down at a piano and play Dubbusseys "Sunken Cathedral" or some such masterpiece, but trying to get them to jam over 2 chords is nigh on impossible!

 

They say stuff like "What should I play?" or "Where do I start?"

[UstadKhanAli]

I'm classically trained for ten years on piano, and absolutely, there's very little in typical classical training to prepare you for improvisation. I had difficulty playing in rock bands at first, coming up with my own parts and improvising and all that. Now, I'm quite good at it, but it's a whole 'nother set of skills to learn.

 

Obviously, reading music in no way prohibits you from improvisation. Reading music can only help you, as it's another way of tapping in to music. But just because you can read music doesn't mean you can improvise, just as it is the other way around! To be able to do both is extremely useful.

[Cry Logic]

Yeah .. I was generalizing in my previous post.

But, in truth, I have not met many classical musos who can improvise.

Sounds like you have the best of both worlds going now man!

[UstadKhanAli]

Yeah .. I was generalizing in my previous post. But, in truth, I have not met many classical musos who can improvise. Sounds like you have the best of both worlds going now man!

Eh....before, yeah, but now I've really lost a lot of my classical chops and sight-reading. So one of the worlds is slippin' away....

It's a good trade-off though, one that I'm very happy with. I've learned to improvise, and as well, learned how to play guitar and learned how to record music really well, so I'm quite satisfied with the trade-off. And yeah, it's a trade-off...there's only so much time one can devote to really knowing something.

[Gordon Gekko]

I agree. I didn't like most of the songs mentioned, even at the time they were released...I was glad when punk came along ... like a breath of fresh air...

wait a minute.... you don't like P-FUNK's FLASHLIGHT. I hope that's not one of the songs you didn't like. COME ON!!!! Bernie Worrell KILLS it on that tune.

ELO...
dude:thu:

and I'll go out on a limb here and say....in sheer song craftsmanship ABBA is only rivalled by The Beatles IMHO. Listen I love Punk in fact Bad Brains changed my life. I saw Circle Jerks, Black Flag, Dead Kennedys and in some cases I skipped school to do it. But at best those guys were/are great thinkers and social instigators not the best musicians.

I'm just saying give credit where credit is due!!!!!

[UstadKhanAli]

I was glad when punk came along as well. But really, compare that list to today's list. The author was basically saying, "Look, we considered this 'disposable pop' back then, but when you compare it to today's pop...".

[Micahb]

well said!

[Cry Logic]

wait a minute.... you don't like P-FUNK's FLASHLIGHT. I hope that's not one of the songs you didn't like. COME ON!!!! Bernie Worrell KILLS it on that tune.

Nope....
Not a big fan of P-Funk.

[Cry Logic]

This is the bleakest time for music, at least in popular culture. It seems that every single band that shows up on Leno, Conan, Letterman, or Kimmel, for instance, are all nothing but thrash chords and little else.

 

 

 

Whilst I respect your right to like/dislike whatever you want,

you have made a very generalised criticism of "todays music".

It's hard to debate such a generalised criticism.

Can you be a bit more specific?

What actual bands/acts are you criticising here?

[Cry Logic]

I was glad when punk came along as well. But really, compare that list to today's list. The author was basically saying, "Look, we considered this 'disposable pop' back then, but when you compare it to today's pop...".

 

 

I'm sure "todays list" would be different for everyone.

Unless you tell us, specifically, which acts you would

include on "todays list" and why they aren't as "good"

as "yesteryears list" it's difficult to respond in any

meaningful fashion.

[UstadKhanAli]

Fretwizz, I'm referring to the lists in the article, including Kasey Kasem's Top 40 list.

[Cry Logic]

"......Listen I love Punk in fact Bad Brains changed my life. I saw Circle Jerks, Black Flag, Dead Kennedys and in some cases I skipped school to do it. But at best those guys were/are great thinkers and social instigators not the best musicians.

Oh ... is that what you call "Punk"?

For me the "real" Punk was from Britain (with a couple of notable exceptions from Australia )
and it started around the early 70's and really hit in 75/76.

In no particular order or preference.

The Sex Pistols
Siouxsie Sioux & The Banshees
The Damned
The Clash
The Stranglers
The Jam
The Vibrators
The Buzzcocks
Generation X
The Saints
Radio Birdman

There were many others, but that's all I can think of right now.

The bands you are referring to came later, towards the end of the 70's,
by which time to us Downunder, Punk was already on the way out and
New Wave was on the horizon.

Check Wikipedias' page on Punk for a reasonably accurate chronology of the Punk phenomenon.

The Sex Pistols songs "God Save the Queen" and "Anarchy in the U.K."
are probably the 2 songs that most typify the "real" Punk to me.

[Cry Logic]

Fretwizz, I'm referring to the lists in the article, including Kasey Kasem's Top 40 list.

 

 

OK

 

I haven't got time to look now.. but I'll check 'em out later tonight

and get back to you......

[UstadKhanAli]

Oh ... is that what you call "Punk"? For me the "real" Punk was from Britain (with a couple of notable exceptions from Australia ) and it started around the early 70's and really hit in 75/76. In no particular order or preference. The Sex Pistols Siouxsie Sioux & The Banshees The Damned The Clash The Stranglers The Jam The Vibrators The Buzzcocks Generation X The Saints Radio Birdman There were many others, but that's all I can think of right now. The bands you are referring to came later, towards the end of the 70's, by which time to us Downunder, Punk was already on the way out and New Wave was on the horizon. Check Wikipedias' page on Punk for a reasonably accurate chronology of the Punk phenomenon. The Sex Pistols songs "God Save the Queen" and "Anarchy in the U.K." are probably the 2 songs that most typify the "real" Punk to me.

That's definitely where it started. I was really into The Damned and The Jam in high school, although I never considered The Jam punk (although they may as well have been, seeing how pissed off they were - what great songwriting!!). Siouxsie's amazing.

Out here in California, punk hit big around '79 or so with Black Flag, The Germs, 45 Grave, Circle Jerks, and Bad Religion. I've played music with the drummer of The Germs (see the other thread on him being arrested for soap) and played in a band with Mikey Borens from 45 Grave, and went to school with Greg Graffin of Bad Religion (he was in my geometry class).

[Rubber Lizard]

I must live on a different planet than some of yous. I find a lot of good music to listen to! Here are two keys to my success:

 

1. I haven't seen MTV in over 30 years

2. I refuse to listen to commercial radio. Ever.

 

I do listen to my local NPR station, Jefferson Public Radio. They have an AM station (lots of talk - no limbaugh. yay!) and a classical station (sorry, not for me) and then they have MY favorite, the Rhythm and News station. Local programmers play a great mix of new, independent, and older tunes for most of the day. In the evening they air David Dye's World Cafe. After that it goes all new age and I turn it off. I don't have to listen to anything I don't like, and neither do you.

 

I'm just hoping for a day when creative music gets more financial support. These folks often barely scrape by (as some of us here can confirm).

 

-mark lacoste

Ashland, Oregon

[UstadKhanAli]

I must live on a different planet than some of yous. I find a lot of good music to listen to! Here are two keys to my success: 1. I haven't seen MTV in over 30 years 2. I refuse to listen to commercial radio. Ever. I do listen to my local NPR station, Jefferson Public Radio.

 

 

I'm up to my *ears* in great music. Seriously. And I'm talking great music. A lot of it is reissues. This is a fantastic time for reissues, as there's a lot of people digging through crates and warehouses and radio station basements to unearth a bunch of great stuff. There's a lot of great stuff as well. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of most of the stuff that NPR plays, but they occasionally latch on to something interesting. Most of their stuff is a bit too bland for me, but that's my taste and is not a judgment on other people's tastes.

 

The point of the article, I should point out, is a comparison of yesterday's Top 40 vs. today's Top 40.

 

We all can find great music if we look hard enough. If you can't find great music, you're just not looking hard enough. I've got awesome stuff from jazz, field recordings, Afro-Peruvian, Afro-Colombian, funk, soul, and rock lately, and it's awesome.

[Cry Logic]

Fretwizz, I'm referring to the lists in the article, including Kasey Kasem's Top 40 list.

 

Well .. it's taken me 3 days to get back to this thread and I'm having trouble

finding links to the charts in question.

Can anyone point an old feller in the right direction?

 

Which reminds me: it's a strange feeling to be 53 years old and listed as a "Junior Member" here....

 

I sorta like it.

[Ernest Buckley]

see below...

[Ernest Buckley]

This is just another article from someone unwilling to be open to new sounds and reluctant to look for them. There is so much good music being produced right now that will last because the message is universal, the melodies are strong, etc...

 

If you only watch MTV, then you will get depressed over the future of music. Yes, video has done nothing but hurt the music industry but for a rare few, it has made them instantly rich. Brittany Spears comes to mind.

 

Yes, CD sales are down but downloading is up. We are changing the delivery of music. Change or die.

[Rubber Lizard]

I agree, but as Ken pointed out to me, the article's subject was, specifically, "Top 40". If we are talking about *music*, then "top 40" is definitely off topic.

 

But the article does make me think. In the 70's I had nothing good to say about the whole world of top 40 music. Disco certainly made a travesty of my senior prom. Now, however, like the writer, I look back at those songs and think about the quality of the writing and musicianship which is well beyond what I hear today on "top 40".

 

The music that I found when I abandoned that commercial music scene, be it punk, ska, or underground folk, was not usually of lasting quality... but at least it had something to say.

 

As for today's pop music... I hope it and other forms of spam shrivel away to nothing.

[alexholz]

From the "For Whatever It's Worth Department."

I've been telling anyone and everyone for years that the world is being
led to Hell by focus groups. Politically, culturally etc. etc. Of COURSE
people want the easy way. NO, they don't want to think about it.

American Idol is the perfect example of this. It selects out the one person
each year who most reminds the audience of an artist they already like. This
years version of last year's hat or lip gloss is . It's the
world's largest focus group.

The irony of course is that the corporations have turned music into
such a featureless commodity that kids, hell adults don't really feel
bad about stealing music. 'Everybody does it.' And the digital age
makes it easy. I've had more than one person tell me that they
haven't bought a CD in years. This, as they are listening to the latest
music on their IPOD. And the reasons for that have been beaten
to death on this and a 1000 other forums. Musicians have complained
for years(and rightly so) about being ripped off by the record companies.
Now, we have audience participation in this on a scale no one could ever
have dreamed of.

Probably the only way for the corporations to get ANY kind of control
is to issue the music only on VINYL again. Like that would happen. HA!

They've lost control, have no clue and somebody, somewhere has gotta pay!

I think they need a focus group.

Cheers,

John