Members tucktronix Posted April 30, 2007 Members Share Posted April 30, 2007 Just trying to understand what you are suggesting... Are you saying that VSTi's , in general, sound more believable than external modules?I guess I would have to say that would depend on which VSTi you are using. You could be using Edirol's Virtual Sound Canvas versus a Korg Oasyis...I've heard some pretty lame VSTi's and some excellent keyboards and module, and vice versa.For many people, the amount of available computing power would dictate what they are going to use, eg. if you don't have a lot of spare CPU/memory, you might stick with the computer for audio tasks, and offload MIDI sound generation to external device, and when you are happy with the MIDI, print it to audio tracks.However, I can certainly see where having VSTi's and DXi's are extremely convenient, but they have to sound good, and you have to have the computer resources to run them.I've heard some pretty good things said about SampleTank as well. I understand what you're saying, having to deal w/ system resources. You also have to keep in mind that, in a multimode setup, there are usually one or two insert effects for the entire multi-mode setup(you'll probably get more with a higher-end synth). So, you will more than likely not get that same killer, expressive lead guitar patch that you've found in performance mode. Among the bad ones, there are still plenty of great-sounding shareware VSTi's out there that don't use a great deal of resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joel Oporto Posted May 1, 2007 Members Share Posted May 1, 2007 OT, with regards to multitimbral external sound modules vs. soft synth, it is so much easier to work with soft synths than with external modules. When rendering/recording tracks from your external module, its a realtime and analog process and if you separate instrument tracks, that's about 8 to twelve for the drums alone. with a softsynth in cubase its just an export to new track that takes about less than half the time. with external sound modules, effects, are mostly global in application whereas with soft synths, you can just have a separate instance for a different patch. I'm finding it increasingly hard to use my keyboards and modules (XP80, Korg trinity, K2500 rack, M3R, SC 88, GR-1) since I have started collecting soft synths, and there are a lot of really good soft synths that you can upgrade with newer sounds and already have sounds that are much better than those in keyboards.But then again you do need to have a good enough PC to run them. In a laptop, external HD, and a midi interface, you can bring all your soft synths anywhere, its quite something else to bring an xp80, a trinity, and an akai S6000 to a gig all at once!My no.1 midi tip would be to use live along with midi parts, whether loop or realtime, but then that wouldn't be purely midi. If its purely midi, then it has to be understanding how each (real) instrument is played by a player, and then applying them to the midi track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted May 1, 2007 Members Share Posted May 1, 2007 In general, the sound quality of external sound modules is nowhere near the quality of soft synths.For instance, think about how much memory is in the average external module. It just can not compare to disk streaming with Giga or Kontakt, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbognar Posted May 1, 2007 Members Share Posted May 1, 2007 I understand what you're saying, having to deal w/ system resources. You also have to keep in mind that, in a multimode setup, there are usually one or two insert effects for the entire multi-mode setup(you'll probably get more with a higher-end synth). So, you will more than likely not get that same killer, expressive lead guitar patch that you've found in performance mode. Among the bad ones, there are still plenty of great-sounding shareware VSTi's out there that don't use a great deal of resources. Ok - I've gotcha now - it's the whole "it sounds awesome in performance mode, but in multi-mode, that killer effect is gone" syndrome... Valid point, but not insurmountable... Anyway, after some thought, using VSTi's is probably worth it, because everything you need is on the computer, whether you are traveling through time or space. Even if you've rendered your performance using an external module to an audio track and even have the MIDI data on another track, if at some point in the future or at another location, you want to edit the performance, you are out of luck. +1 for VSTi's - I guess for that reason alone, it's worth cutting the cord to external modules... HOWEVER, (still OT), for live performance, as Craig mentioned in one of his columns in Keyboard, if you've got a workstation type synth, it is probably more reliable than a computer w/ software on a gig. A Motif/Triton/Fantom with some basic in track sampling controlling a couple of other modules gives you flexibility (separate outputs per sound) as well as reliability. Back OT: To avoid CHEESE, play as much to audio or MIDI that you can. If you think a part needs to be quantized, play it again, maybe slower.. Also, IMHO, avoid solo woodwinds / brass / strings / guitars - unless you are using a kick a$$ plugin/sampler and a dedicated controller. Although, listening to the demos of SampleTank, I am really impressed by the soprano sax demo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted May 1, 2007 Members Share Posted May 1, 2007 Ok - I've gotcha now - it's the whole "it sounds awesome in performance mode, but in multi-mode, that killer effect is gone" syndrome... Valid point, but not insurmountable...Anyway, after some thought, using VSTi's is probably worth it, because everything you need is on the computer, whether you are traveling through time or space. Even if you've rendered your performance using an external module to an audio track and even have the MIDI data on another track, if at some point in the future or at another location, you want to edit the performance, you are out of luck.+1 for VSTi's - I guess for that reason alone, it's worth cutting the cord to external modules...HOWEVER, (still OT), for live performance, as Craig mentioned in one of his columns in Keyboard, if you've got a workstation type synth, it is probably more reliable than a computer w/ software on a gig. A Motif/Triton/Fantom with some basic in track sampling controlling a couple of other modules gives you flexibility (separate outputs per sound) as well as reliability. I do share your observation on the "live performance" reliability factor of using a computer vs a MIDI synth, but live performance was not the issue mentioned in this thread, and I don't do any MIDI during my live gigs. I'm sure a lot of folks who gig with a laptop or PC(particularly folks from KSS) would be in disagreement with that reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members linwood Posted May 1, 2007 Members Share Posted May 1, 2007 Try to sweat when you play it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members markwayne Posted May 1, 2007 Members Share Posted May 1, 2007 Well, there are really two very separate issues here. One is the quality of the sound source. Only money or programming chops can solve that one. The other is the performance itself. The way I see it the biggest problem with MIDI recording is that it lets you take a horrible performance and edit it until it is a perfectly horrible performance. Why not Practice the part until you can play the part with some feeling and maybe even a little passion? Then record and resist the urge to quantize and edit the feeling out. And, as a previous poster pointed out, don't spare the controllers even if you have to add those later. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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