put P90's on Dot or trade for Casino

[ashasha]

You mean Gibson 57 Classics? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-57-Classic-Humbucker-Pickup?sku=306000 A pair of these cost almost as much as Dot!

I know

 

I got a brand new set for $125 shipped from e-Bay so it was a complete no-brainer. After seeing the improvement I can say without a doubt that it would have been worth the full retail price.

 

I liked the guitar when I got it, but the bridge was harsh and just crappy, the neck was muddy although it did have some decent qualities to it. I expected a modest improvement, but I've been completely flabergasted by the improvement.

 

More dynamic, very articulate (I mean insanely articulate), much better frequency response and I think that the magnetic pull is weaker because it feels like it plays livelier even unplugged. Yeah, I am well aware of how retarded that last sentence sounded.

 

I was really worried when I pulled the stock pickups out and they were marked '57' on the back and figured that they would be pretty close. I measured the DC resistance and they were all within .5K ohms between the new and old. I really thought that I had blown some cash on something that would end up being a modest upgrade at best.

 

The 57 Classics are about 7.5K if memory serves correctly where as the originals were dead on about 8K each. Common internet lore would dictate that the output levels would be close and that the Epi's may even be hotter. I made sure to measure the pickup heights before and after so that there would be no difference between before and after. Hell I even used the same strings. The Gibson pickups had a considerably higher output. So much so that I had to turn the gain down on my preamp from about 10 o'clock to 9 o'clock which is a lot.

 

Before

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6668563

 

After

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6668571

 

Both were recorded direct meaning no effects, no modelling stuff or anything, it is just the dry output of the guitar (through a clean preamp). It is really noticeable in the neck, the bridge sounds a bit smoother, but when you run it into an amp or anything else the improvement is really compounded.

[socalscott]

 

I'm gonna try this on a cheap HH axe, got pics to help me try?

 

 

Sorry no pics. I did this on a $150 Floyd Rose Discovey. The pups are open coil , so it is as easy as it can get.

 

x = deleted poles.

Neck

oooxxx

xxxooo

 

Bridge alternative

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xxxooo

[socalscott]

DOH, a quick way to sample this mod is to simply remove the screws from the wound strings. Fat, open P90 bottom end in 5 minutes.

[Electric Blues]

 

This is always what happens when you throw a question out: my advice is the opposite of Roy Brooks's. Keep in mind that I'm basically a beginning player, so I'm speaking from a limited basis of experience. But I feel that it's rare to find a guitar that's really comfortable and satisfying to play, that you really bond with, and if your Dot fits the bill for you, go ahead and give it a pickup swap, rather than risk getting a guitar that doesn't give you the same playing satisfaction. Just my thought.

 

+1

That's a smart beginner!

[burkedajerk88]

get gibson p94s. they're basically p90s in a humbucker casing, with slightly hotter and better tone qualities.

[Electric Blues]

 

get gibson p94s. they're basically p90s in a humbucker casing, with slightly hotter and better tone qualities.

 

 

I'd like to know more about those P94s. What guitar did you install them on?

[zerkalo]

{censored} Gibson for pricing their buckers like that. 120 for a pup. Yeah right. It's not even a boutique; something which would justify the cost.

 

Go for GFS or Seymour Duncan.

[iansmitchell]

 

get gibson p94s. they're basically p90s in a humbucker casing, with slightly hotter and better tone qualities.

 

 

They're terribly voiced.

It's like putting fender pups on a gibson spaced guitar, the sound is just WAY off.

Huge mistake, wasted cash.

Glad I didn't make it and pay big.

Tryed 'em on an axe owned by a guy who (formerly) swore by gibson for EVERYTHING.

The height was right, but it was just bad.

 

My GFS mean 90s blew them out of the water.

SH phat cats, also nice choice.

But GFS are about half the price, and every bit as good.

Try them, and ALWAYS, when doing the first upgrade on a guitar, new wiring(pots, caps, switch, jack if easily done), to old pups, then new pups, then new amp, then pedals when you want variety. Pedals aren't gonna be on 24/7 if you're in a tone sweet spot, but they'll feel just right on the right groove, so I'm not saying stay away, but first thing first.

Guitarfetish.com's own les paul wiring upgrade does the trick(speaking from having used it-twice on epis, my dot-rod and my G-4-awesome.)

[Blacksheep]

Casino's destroy, but not if you want to get a nice distortion without feedback, so keep that in mind.

[theblackcrayon]

The only real decent Epi's these days are Casinos anyhow. Go for the trade, you'll see a big difference.

[vexed73]

I think since the Casino is full hollow it would have a different sound than the dot even if it had p90s since the dot is only semi hollow. Of course if you play with gain you might be better with the DOT.

[albiedamned]

Thanks for all the feedback. Some of the mods being described here are beyond what I would do. If I do get the P90's, I'm going to take it to a shop to have them installed since I just don't have those skills (soldering etc). It does still sound like the Mean 90's are my best choice if I decide to do it. I use the Dot mostly for clean to maybe slightly crunchy sounds. For heavier distortion I'll use my PRS SE Singlecut instead. So I'm not too worried about the feedback issue.

[vexed73]

I would look at the BG pure-90 or H-90.

 

http://www.bg-pups.com/h90.html

 

He is on the forum and gives discounts to those who PM him for a price. I had a H-90 in the neck of a PRS along with one of his BG dark in the bridge and it was very nice. Below is a sample of both recorded through a guitar port.

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=262928&songID=5754452

[albiedamned]

Ok, to resurrect this thread, here's what I'm thinking now: I'll keep the Dot and get a Mean 90 for the neck and a GFS Vintage 59 for the bridge. Any thoughts on this approach? Does anyone have direct experience with the GFS Vintage 59?

 

iansmitchell, I know this is the opposite of what you did, since you put the Mean 90 in the bridge. Why did you do it that way?

 

Also, what is the difference in sound between a '59 and a '57? I saw both mentioned in this thread. GFS only has a '59 model.

[NugJuggler]

You are a douche for suggesting such a combination.

 

:poke:

 

Holy crap. I am going to commit hari-kari.

Farewell toneless one.

[socalscott]

Not considering the Vintage Split?

HB with refined SC/P90 vibe,(i.e. less mid honk). Just be sure to adjust the hidden poles out to taste or out all together via the underside.

[albiedamned]

Bump. I was hoping to get some feedback on my idea of putting a GFS Mean 90 in the neck and a GFS Vintage 59 in the bridge of my Dot. I'm especially hoping to hear from iansmitchell since he did exactly the opposite. Also I'm hoping someone can explain what the difference is between a '59 and a '57, if there even is one. GFS sells '59s, Gibson sells '57s.

 

On a related note, I just restrung my Dot from 11s to 10s and I immediately didn't like it. It sounded boxier, almost like the amp wasn't warmed up yet (but it was). And then I came here and read the thread about 11s and all the people who use them, especially on 335s. I'm going back to the 11s. I'll use the 10s on my PRS SE Singlecut.

[iansmitchell]

 

Bump. I was hoping to get some feedback on my idea of putting a GFS Mean 90 in the neck and a GFS Vintage 59 in the bridge of my Dot. I'm especially hoping to hear from iansmitchell since he did exactly the opposite. Also I'm hoping someone can explain what the difference is between a '59 and a '57, if there even is one. GFS sells '59s, Gibson sells '57s. On a related note, I just restrung my Dot from 11s to 10s and I immediately didn't like it. It sounded boxier, almost like the amp wasn't warmed up yet (but it was). And then I came here and read the thread about 11s and all the people who use them, especially on 335s. I'm going back to the 11s. I'll use the 10s on my PRS SE Singlecut.

 

 

I did it with the 90 in the bridge to have that bluesy bite and overdriven tone that only a P-90 in the bridge can give ya. I put the '59 in the neck because humbuckers always have more low end and mids, common in the neck position. Gives me the '57 sounds and the P-90 tones, in the order I prefer them.

 

The difference is the '57s are more likely wound more consistently, which is out of the PAF style IMO. But they're more midrangey, better for cleans.

 

I'm switching to .11s on my dot. Been playing alot of acoustic due to being overseas without an electric, so I can handle bigger strings now.

[23miles]

I think you should keep the semi. I is a much more versatile guitar than the full hollow Casino. Gibson '57s are great and I love their sound of them in every semi in which I have heard them: ES-135, ES-137 Custom, ES-335 and the CS-336. I own a CS-336 with two '57 classics and it is still the best sounding guitar I have ever played. Like every other piece of gear - try to buy them used and let somebody that the depreciation hit.

I own a Casino that I love and I can't say anything bad about it except that it will feed back and it is hard to play with a cranked amp or a an overdrive pedal. If your think you want P-90s I recommend that you consider a solidbody or semi-hollow: take a look at the Epiphone -56 Les Paul Goldtop Reissue, the Gibson LP Faded double cutaway, or (the best of the three) the Gibson SG-Classic. There are other great solid and semi guitars with soapbars or other large single coil pickups but, because they aren't Gibsons, they aren't P-90s. That doesn't mean they aren't good, they just dont have real P-90s. I have a DeArmond Starfire Special Semi which has outrageously good sounding DeArmond 2K pups and A G&L ASAT semi that are great. The Fender TC-90 and the PRS Soapbar SE sound good too. But none of these sound exactly like P-90s.