Things to look for on Deluxe Reverb?

[Vibroluxman]

Hey y'all

I'm looking at a '66 Deluxe reverb tomorrow. Seller wants $1k for it.

 

The bad list of the amp

original caps (has been checked out by local shop and been told that they are still in good shape though)

replaced transformer dated to 1971 (not sure if it's output or power, he said something about choke)

Emminence speaker (about 8 years old)

Replaced cabinet (dates to 1975).

 

Worth the cost of admission? I'll be going to check it out tomorrow. I'd end up selling the Ampeg which I love and my Mesa Boogie Subway blues if I bought this thing. If I bought it, I'd probably drop in a Weber that I have kicking around.

[jimash]

I would look to see that everything is tight and not rattling, that the wires and such are secure.

check for rust on the chassis and tube socket area and transformers, and input jacks.

That the knobs all function and don't wiggle.

That the reverb and trem work.

I have a Subway Blues too.

I put a twelve inch speaker underneath it and turned down the mids, and I really like the thing. So be sure before you get rid of that because its a nice amp.

[wagdog]

There is a choke in that amp, and it looks like a very small transformer.

 

If it's a '66, and the filter caps are original, they need to be replaced, period, end of story. There are 5x 16uf 450v caps and the bias supply cap. If I were playing it, I'd replace all of the electrolytic cathode caps in the preamp, reverb and vibrato as well.

 

With the replaced cab and speaker, it's not a collectors piece at all. Price wise, I have no idea, but that's a players amp and it will need some work if it's all original. I'm thinking that's priced high for an amp in that condition - BUT - I'm guessing here.

[Vibroluxman]

Wag that's true. I have an amp guy in the area that does that for $150. I wasn't sure if it was high or not - a good condition '66 runs about $1900 or so I thought. With all of the mods on there, I wasn't sure what a good value would be.

 

The subway blues is a great amp. I like it a lot. My ampeg is amazing. I'll be bringing it with me to try out versus the Deluxe reverb. If the deluxe doesn't blow the ampeg out of the water, I'm probably not buying.

[Wyatt]

I would say it's priced low, it may be a steal. I stock '66 BFDR often pulls $2500, and it's getting hard to find a late-'70's DR for less than $1000. Most of this is a stock '66, the replaced cab is unimportant, it's the electronics you are buying.

 

1.) Original caps are good. You do want to replace any old electrolytic caps, but a '66 will have the highly sought-after blue molded caps. Only replace these if they go bad...tech's sell pulls from amps for $20-40 each.

 

2.) The transformer issue probably the biggest factor. people fret over having the original output transformer, but honestly, there is nothing magic, as long as the turns and construction are correct, the OT will sound great. A PT switch would the important one, the SF PT is NOT the same as the BF because Fender switched PT specs when they switched rectifiers tubes to the 5U4GB. It's not a deal-breaker in the least, but IMHO, would have the most impact on operation. Choke? As long as the specs are right, it doesn't matter if it's been replaced, it's about as important a swap as a replace resistor.

 

3.) Fender doomed speakers in the Deluxe Reverb, the choose a speaker that couldn';t handle the DR's peak wattage, so replacement speakers are more common than not. Even if it had the original, my recommendation would be to pull it and keep it safely stored.

 

4.) The mid-'70's cabinet is a piece of particle-board junk, and it's baffle board is glued in, making it stiffer. This is unimportant. An amp is an electronic device, it gains nothing from an original cabinet except higher resale value. And a top-of-the line repro cabinet is $200-300.

 

All total, depending on the transformer issue, I would guess a brick and mortar store would price a '66 in this condition around $1400-1600, and they would get it because it's still a deal on a player BFDR. If I were me, as soon as I made sure the inside of the chassis looked the way it was supposed to....I would pay the man before he gets wise.

[wagdog]

Wyatt - as usual, an informative post.

 

From a collectors point of view though, wouldn't the none original cab adversely affect the value?

[Wyatt]

 

Wyatt - as usual, an informative post. From a collectors point of view though, wouldn't the none original cab adversely affect the value?

 

 

Sure, it's a player piece, not a collector piece. But there is nothing magical about the tone of an "original" cabinet.

[cratz2]

Yeah, I know most folks like the idea of it being as close to stock as possible but the Deluxes seem to be getting hard to find and the prices are going up.

 

If that was a local deal, I'd go and look at it tomorrow, cash in hand.

[wagdog]

 

But there is nothing magical about the tone of an "original" cabinet.

 

 

lol. true.

[onelife]

It won't give you the smooth creamy overdrive that you get from the Subway Blues but it will certainly be a lot quieter when it is just sitting there. I play a tele through a Subway Blues set on half power and usually turned all the way up. As much as I love the amp for live, it's not suitable for recording. I also have a '73 Princeton Reverb, the little brother to the Deluxe you are looking at and I find it to be ideal for recording but to use it live I need an extra stage so I put a Boss Blues Driver in front of it.

 

What I am trying to say is, you will be getting a lot in the Deluxe but you will also be giving up a lot with the Subway Blues. Is there any way you can have both?

[Vibroluxman]

Well here's a rundown of my amps

 

1960 Ampeg Mercury M12 - Love this amp. 18 watts, 2 6v6, 3 6sl7. Basically imagine a cross between a Deluxe Reverb and a Tweed Deluxe. Amazing cleans, but it gets nice and dirty when you jump the channels together. Tremolo is beautiful and I use it with a holy grail plus pedal. Currently have a weber in it, but I've also got the original jensen.

 

Marshall Class 5. It's turned out to be a bit too loud for the home use that I bought it for, but it has some great overdrive tones.

 

Fender Champ 12, USA made. I am constantly surprised at how much I like this amp. Beautiful cleans, some nice crunch tones when you dig in. The OD channel is touchy, but you can get some good OD out of it. It's a great practice amp.

 

Mesa Boogie Subway Blues. My most modern amp. Love the recording out, and the cleans. Not crazy about the crunch tones but love it when you really overdrive it. Have an emminence copperhead in it, but I've got the original black shadow as well. I love it for quiet recording, the half power is nice for bringing down the volume and the bright fat switch for changing up the tone.

 

I really don't need another amp, nor would I know where to put it. So if I bought this, I'd have to get rid of at least a couple of other things. Probably get rid of the Mesa and the Marshall. I'd lose money on the Marshall selling, but I'd probably break even or make a $100 off of the Mesa. between the two, I'd get about $750, 800. That really limits my outlay on the Deluxe.

[guitarcapo]

Replaced cab, replaced transformers, replaced speaker, needs a cap job. I wouldn't pay $1000 for that. It has very little collector value at that point and the price is too close to a new clone with better build and components after maintenance work is figured in. After the "collector value" is lost, it's all about the value as a tool for making music. A grand plus the cost of a recap for 50 year old components doesn't fly for me. YMMV

[Vibroluxman]

Guitarcapo - only one transformer replaced - he thinks it's the choke, I'll know when I'm there. But I tend to agree. I'm only buying if it knocks my socks off at this point. Talked to a local shop and after I told them what had been changed to it, they agreed $1000-1200 for a fair price.

[Mister Crow]

I wouldn't pay $1000 for that. Too many changes. A guy on my local CL just sold a '71 for $850 that was all original and in good shape. I bought a '76 this summer for $500, but admittedly that was a crazy good deal.

 

Just my opinion, but for $1000 I'd be looking for an all original, excellent shape early 70's. It's a buyers market, keep an eye out and I think you will find a better deal.

[onelife]

 

Mesa Boogie Subway Blues. My most modern amp. Love the recording out, and the cleans. Not crazy about the crunch tones but love it when you really overdrive it. Have an emminence copperhead in it, but I've got the original black shadow as well. I love it for quiet recording, the half power is nice for bringing down the volume and the bright fat switch for changing up the tone.

 

 

So you actually find the Subway Blues quiet enough for recording - I don't mean with the speaker turned off.

 

The one I use produces a lot of noise while it is idling and it is just too much for me. A few people told me that it is a characteristic of the amp but maybe there is something wrong with mine.

 

I do like the half power mode and the fact that the midrange control works like another gain once it is turned more than halfway up. It's also a pretty easy lug considering how much balls it has.

[Verne Andru]

If you're really digging having a vintage Fender DR, follow Wyatt's advice and arrive cash-in-hand.

 

OTOH, if it's not a collectors piece, you may be able to do better shopping around. I picked up a vintage 60's p-t-p wired 5E3 head with a matching cabinet for $50. While this isn't Fender branded, it's the circuit that's important. Those types of deals don't come along every day, but they are out there if you're not in a hurry.

 

As a side note, I was considering replacing caps and such on mine, but once I got it cleaned up and running to spec I'm of the mind that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Mine sounds great for a completely stock [well I did replace the pot knobs], 40-something year old hand-wired, point-to-point amp.

[outtahear]

 

Wyatt - as usual, an informative post. From a collectors point of view though, wouldn't the none original cab adversely affect the value?

 

 

By near half. That, spkr, replaced "transformer", price drops like a rock.

Especially in this economy. Mint originals aren't moving near "market value".

[Alan Roberts]

Offer him $800-$850 and hope to get it for $900. If not, $1000 would be near the high end of what I'd consider paying in the current economy. But in the end, do what's in your heart. It's doubtful that he hasn't already checked to see what the value of it is. Not many people left in the world who don't think a vintage Fender amp is worth some coin and wouldn't check to see what it's current value was before selling. But cash in hand is always a motivator when negotiating a deal like this.

[WRGKMC]

Original caps are "Not" Good as others suggest.

Caps are good for 10~20 years if the amp has been in regular use.

40+ years forget it. Those power caps are only about $5 apiece and should be changed out.

Theres no way you can predict when old caps are ready to go. They may give some warning

and start to cause hum or they may just short on power up and take a power transformer out with them.

 

The original caps from that year were brown paperd caps. They later switched to the blue ones.

The positive ends have a small escape valve for the electrolyte. Buldging of this dimple or white oozing

is a sign the cap is shot and needs replacement. I'd change them in any case becaose they sound better

with clean DC for the power amp stages. The other caps in the signal stages could probibly use replacement too but

they arent as critical as the power caps. Also installing new caps like new tubes doesnt devalue the head, it sinply

insures it will run another 40+ years.

 

I'd check and see if the grid caps are original carbon comp too. Some wingnuts stick ceramic resistors on there and it

can be the cause of a power transformer failure. Carbon comp caps will blow like fuses when the power tubes go bad

and save the amp from a meltdown. Replacing the resistors with ceramics can turn a $3 + tubes repair into a $200 + tubes repair.

Good for the service tech but bad for your wallet.

 

 

The only thing besides the caps would be to make sure the speakers total impedance matches the amp head.

Those amps were either 8 or 4 ohm wirings. I know my silverface use 4X16 ohm speakers in parallel wiring to get

4 ohms. If someone stuck 8 ohm speakers or wired the thing for 16 ohms the power tubes wont last long at all.

They wind up turning cherry orange and short out taking components with them.

 

Other than that the amps arent bad. I paid $100 for my last one Theres no way I'd spend $1K or any thing close to that.

You'd be better off getting a blackface bassman and getting a 4X10" cab for it. More power and much better tone.

[jimash]

 

So you actually find the Subway Blues quiet enough for recording - I don't mean with the speaker turned off. The one I use produces a lot of noise while it is idling and it is just too much for me. A few people told me that it is a characteristic of the amp but maybe there is something wrong with mine. I do like the half power mode and the fact that the midrange control works like another gain once it is turned more than halfway up. It's also a pretty easy lug considering how much balls it has.

 

 

I have one too.

I had the major noise problem and had the entire innards replaced . ( secret circuit burned out)

Anyway it is still noisy and I think it is a characteristic of the amps straight through design.

I have had very bad luck with 12ax7's in the Subway and only sometimes get a good one, and this amp wears them out. For really quiet and clean I will put a 12ay7 or even a 12au7 into V1.

A 12at7 also works very well and is quieter than an x. Sometimes an old GE or RCA will work better than the new stuff. I haven't had the heart to try out my NOS 5751 yet but I might. It's picky about tubes.

[wagdog]

didja get it?

[Vibroluxman]

ended up not going to check it out. He started out at a $1000, but had raised the price to $1150 before I went to go check it out. With all the changes to it, I just think you guys have convinced me to pass. I called a local shop where I'm friends with the owner and he told me that $1000 to $1200 is about all it's worth as well.

[cratz2]

Hrmm... that's pretty off-putting, raising the price like that. But the economy is weird. All it take is one guy willing to pay it.

 

It's probably all for the best anyway.

[wagdog]

He raised the price? Good luck w/that. I'm finding gear isn't moving at anywhere near the prices it was a couple years ago. Maybe he's just content to hang on to it.

[Mister Crow]

Smart move. As I already mentioned, I wouldn't have paid $1000 for that amp, or even substantially less. You'll find a much better deal in this market. Bide your time, it will come.