Members Goldenvoice Posted February 13, 2007 Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 Not to rattle any cages, or anything, but... I cut my teeth on an old Altec Lansing - with I'm sure Germanium transistors - pre IC. The thing always sounded great - RICH is a great term - warm - silky highs - the sound would wrap around you (keep in mind I do a solo - think soft jazz - oldies - etc). I loved that rig, and so did everyone with ears.(In fact, it'd damn near get my jeans wet...) Move to the mid 90's - the Altec getting fussy - I moved to an IC powered mixer - much more eq capabilities, routing, etc - but less Mojo... Now I'm playing with a Mackie 1604 into Graphic into Power Amp - OK, is clean the word here? "linear"? Oooo, icky, where is the Mojo? I'm stuck trying to find Reverbs to smooth it out, but not getting there - no amount of eq... No, it's not the eq, it must be much deeper here. Does anybody make a mixer with Mojo anymore? I'm just stuck with IC chip crap? Help... Goldenvoice:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 13, 2007 Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 I know exactly what you're talking about. Intresting enough I think what you're describing is equipment that was designed sort of by the seat of the pants I.E. often tuned by ear rather than an O scope. I believe that the equipment today is striving to be an acurate reproduction of the original acoustic instrument but in reality it can never happen. Here's a for instance: take the best mic through the best Mic Pre and reproduce it through the best amp and speaker combination made. Close your eyes and try to hear the difference between the mic'd sound and the original acoustic instrument. Of course you will because your ears are much too sensative to be fooled by this (tell me how any single point source mic is going to be able to pick up the same interesting interplay of harmonics that are eminating off of for instance a Piano soundboard or a saxaphone).In the past I believe that a lot of equipment wasn't so much made to be acurate as it was made to sound pleasing and musical. I've heard it said that some of the best producers aren't engineers therefore they're not biased by the new technology, they just know what sounds good.I will say that the "New Sound" (squeeky clean and as acurate as possible) works well for more modern music I.E. electronicly generated music. I think that some of the higher end European products still hold true to the older way of thinking (Clean is great but let's make sure it's musical as well). Unfortunatly you gotta pay a lot of money to get that sound these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 13, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 I've never been impressed with any system using a Mackie small-format mixer. I'm not sure what they do to the signal, but they always wind up sounding 'sterile' to my ears. Try an A&H Mixwiz and see if that gets you towards what you expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 13, 2007 Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 I have used plenty of the really older gear, and frankly it's performance is so poor compared to almost anything newer available (including "B" that I just can't understand the appeal of "the good old days". They weren't all that good really. You might try rolling off the high end a bit on the newer stuff, achieving even 10kHz flat was sometimes a challange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goldenvoice Posted February 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 I think you've hit the nail on the head! Growing up, listening to things like Les Paul & Mary Ford (for example), or the Beatles, or most any of the good ole' heavily laced Mojo Music - the sound was nothing shy of amazing - BETTER THAN LIFE - a real magic happening. I know what I sound like in a dull room with an acoustic guitar - good. But with Mojo, things get "better than". Engineering, sure, but gear too - the A team out of Nashville - RCA, Elvis to Brenda Lee to Perry Como - late 50's - there is a sound I love. It's a better than "reality" sound I can't seem to reproduce with an IC. The "new technology"...? What, make it cheap - sell is cheap? Computers are cool, I use mine all the time, but only enters my music world for photo editing, Promo, etc, not for audio. My little home studio - yep, TAPE! The new recordings I hear are... for the most part, lacking mojo - Nora's albums seem to have mojo - Jack Johnson I like - the sound - but still sounds too sterile - Nickle Creek - there again - just off the top of my head... So, live work - like my home stereo - I search out tuner/amps from the 70's - pre IC chip - after that, the sound (in good part) when to {censored} - the IC chip - not because it sounds better, it's only here in our audio because it's cheap to produce, and the marketing can convince MOST of the public it's better. And surround? Give me a friggin break... So, If I were to want a late model mixer (think due to reliability reasons) with mojo, where might I start looking? I only really need 4 channels - 8 would be fine - 12 is doable, just for extras... ...? Goldenvoice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 13, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 So, If I were to want a late model mixer (think due to reliability reasons) with mojo, where might I start looking? I only really need 4 channels - 8 would be fine - 12 is doable, just for extras... ...? Goldenvoice *tap, tap, squeal.....* Is this on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goldenvoice Posted February 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 Try an A&H Mixwiz and see if that gets you towards what you expect. Allen & Heath makes a 12 channel that's not a mixwiz - I think it's a PA-12. Does the PA-12 have the same mojo workin? Or is the mixwiz "the" one with it? I still play out allot, and both for my own enjoyment, and that of the discerning paying client, (as well as the casual listener) I need really good sounding gear. I have used plenty of the really older gear, and frankly it's performance is so poor compared to almost anything newer available (including "B" that I just can't understand the appeal of "the good old days". They weren't all that good really. That's what I'd been thinking too. Then in a pinch, went back to my Altec gear, and realized what I've been missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goldenvoice Posted February 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 Oh, and you guys were posting the same time I was - hence the lack of suggestion recognition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 13, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Allen & Heath makes a 12 channel that's not a mixwiz - I think it's a PA-12.Does the PA-12 have the same mojo workin? Or is the mixwiz "the" one with it? A&H makes a few Mixwizard models with various combinations of mono and stereo channels, groups or no groups, effects or no fx. I believe all sahre the same size footprint. The PA series are good, but I not of the same feature and quality level IMO. Before you go too far into 'mojo', be sure you're using the equipment to best advantage. Many times what works great to one one system can result in utter crap from another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goldenvoice Posted February 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 Thanks so much for the input. Guess I'll have to sell my Anvil and band saw, which I never use... Yes, If I had more dough, I'd buy one of each on the market, and truly decide for myself. Since I'm not made of money, I'll trust your input. I do know I'm not at all happy with the lack of soul in the Mackie. Being able to get input from other seasoned professionals is priceless;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 13, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Thanks so much for the input. Guess I'll have to sell my Anvil and band saw, which I never use...Yes, If I had more dough, I'd buy one of each on the market, and truly decide for myself. Since I'm not made of money, I'll trust your input. I do know I'm not at all happy with the lack of soul in the Mackie.Being able to get input from other seasoned professionals is priceless;) The thing I see is this...the mixer isn't supposed to 'do' anything to your sound, except take a mic or line signal and amplify it to the point an amp can use it. EQ definitely can be a factor, and "British" EQ aside, the A&H Eq does a nice job of not screwing things up. I've used Mackie 1604's and CFX's and never liked the EQ...but that's a personal thing I'm sure. At any rate, IME the Mackie is affecting the signal, but not in a good way, and the A&H is leaving it be. I suspect both will still sound considerably different than your EV. See if you can rent a system locally from a company that has a mixer you're interested in purchasing. It's an inexpensive way to get a really good road test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goldenvoice Posted February 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 See if you can rent a system locally from a company that has a mixer you're interested in purchasing. It's an inexpensive way to get a really good road test. Can you believe I hadn't even thought of that? 45 minute drive will net a sound company with Soundcraft stuff. It's near 2 hours to Portland, and it's surprising what they don't have, but I'll call around. Thanks:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 13, 2007 Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 Ever tried using your inserts on your board I bought a couple Alesis 1/2 rack for cheap off eBay analog parametric eq and use the inserts it on my board to help fatten up the sound, since my mixer doesn't use parametric eqing on the channel strip. It works pretty dam good to add color to the original sound I'm sure theirs about a 100 different models of eqing devices to achieve your Mojo sound. I know they have just about any combinations available from tube analog. solid state analog. digital with tubes digital with solid state just pick a flavor. Works live or in the the studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 13, 2007 Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 +1 for both A&H and Soundcraft. These would probably be my top 2 recomendations for what you're looking for (newer cost effective boards that still sound "analog"). As for much older vintage equipment. As one person said (can't remember where i heard the quote) "Good sound isn't a new invention" (for some reason I think it was Craig Anderton but I could be wrong on this). I guess this is why people still seek out mic's and mic pre's by companies like Telefunken, Neuman, Studer, Ampex, API, Scully, just to name a few. These guy's made good Stuff (not necesarily acurate but it sure sounded good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 13, 2007 Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 +1 for both A&H and Soundcraft. These would probably be my top 2 recomendations for what you're looking for (newer cost effective boards that still sound "analog"). As for much older vintage equipment. As one person said (can't remember where i heard the quote) "Good sound isn't a new invention" (for some reason I think it was Craig Anderton but I could be wrong on this). I guess this is why people still seek out mic's and mic pre's by companies like Telefunken, Neuman, Studer, Ampex, API, Scully, just to name a few. These guy's made good Stuff (not necesarily acurate but it sure sounded good). Sure it great stuff but most of that old stuff is noisy as hell ever listing to an old tube console their freaking noisy but once pushed seems like the noise goes out the door because your awed by the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goldenvoice Posted February 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 Sure it great stuff but most of that old stuff is noisy as hell ever listing to an old tube console their freaking noisy but once pushed seems like the noise goes out the door because your awed by the sound. Amen, to both the previous posts! My old Altec makes the biggest (sort of cool) "ka - pooa - shzooaasssss" when I turn it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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