Members stunningbabe Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 Meyer, EAW, Nexo, BOSE etc.. have their own processors with built in crossover, limiter, phase correction, audio compensation etc. For entry level sound systems...I dont see any of such processor at all. Why so? Is the processor only meant for mid and high end systems? If a processsor can make an entry level sound system sound better, why dont we see it used in entry level systems? Pardon my ignorance...coz I really have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solomaniac17 Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 you mean internal? Their are some companies with entry level and low budget products that do have internal processing included, they re just entrylevel low budget internal processing as well. I kind of think of this situation as a car though sometimes, When you buy a car, you get stalk everything, unless you request aftermarket product on it or u buy a very expensive car.. buying after market, or seperate features for any system usually stands to be a better product, since it is designed specifically for one application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 Entry level systems have to meet a very low price point, especially in manufacturing. So they work to make the boxes sound decent without a processor (aside from the passive crossover inside the speakers, where you can do a little bit of correction). For higher end systems the extra money is available to build a processor. People are buying those systems to get really good sound, as opposed to cheap boxes with "OK" sound. Plus the people who use higher end systems tend to be in bigger venues with more cabinets, so the cost of the processor is spread out a bit compared to somebody who's just using one or two cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 There are system processors available from companies other than the ones who produce the loudspeakers. BSS, XTA, Ashley, dbx, etc.... Most companies provide processor settings for all of their boxes - even the low end boxes. DriveRack PA was one of the first budget level system processors. The problem I see is people think a "magic box" will make their PA sound good when the operator is far more important. Speaker placement, mic technique, good hearing, etc.... I stink at guitar. I can play about 12 chords and strum along a little. If you give me a Limited Edition Les Paul Custom Deluxe Turbo Extravaganza model costing $12,000 into a Matchless Combo I will make it sound just like my Squire Telecaster -> Boss ME-30 -> Hartke B20. You just cannot fix poor talent with a "magic box". In the hands of a talented operator a system processor will make a cheap PA sound "better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Square Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 I consider the DBX drive rack PA and Bheringer's similar product (sorry don't know the product name) to be entry level processors. I know that the DBX is about $500, and if you compare that to the cost of a basic crossover and a stereo 31 band EQ or similar quality, it is price competitive and offers more features and control. The big companies package processors with thier rigs because it does make the rig sound better, and it does offer you a higher level of control, and the digital format lets you save presets (for common rooms that the rig will see, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 19, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 So..by adding a dbx drive rack pa...any entry level sound system will sound even better?...(if the speakers are already decent sounding, that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 Entry level systems have to meet a very low price point, especially in manufacturing. So they work to make the boxes sound decent without a processor (aside from the passive crossover inside the speakers, where you can do a little bit of correction). I'm of the opinion that with some (most) entry level speaker cabinets, there's very little thought or resources put into making the boxes sound decent. Generally they sound the way they sound based on quite a few factors, few of which are decided on strictly for their audio quality. Rarely is every attribute of a product strictly by design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 So..by adding a dbx drive rack pa...any entry level sound system will sound even better?...(if the speakers are already decent sounding, that is). Not really. A generic processor requires tuning to a particular system and venue. And really a processor just puts a few common components (crossover, limiters, EQ) into a convenient package. You'd still need to figure out what problems need to be corrected, and then tune the processor to correct them. Also, a passive system might need to have the speakers rewired to allow active crossovers, to allow for time alignment between drivers and much better control over the crossover points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 I agree with Mark. I would say factor such as:1. Number of cuts per sheet of plywood to avoid waste.2. Cheapest supplier of horns.3. Ability to move old stock parts.4. Number of steps in production. This is the kind of stuff cheap speakers have to answer to. Hi-end boxes generally sound great without a processor, especially when standing alone. The processor helps with phase funkies from standing waves inside the box to component delay issues. I think the cheap boxes need a processor more than the expensive ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 Designing the transition from driver to driver is a difficult job ... you just don't add a textbook crossover and you're done. I have to laugh a bit every time I see someone here buying a generic x-over and dropping it in a new custom system they built. That might be a little bit like grabbing a bowling ball and because it has three holes drilled in it it might fit your hand correctly ... as opposed to a custom measured and drilled one. Now there's only so much you can do with a passive crossover, and even less if you have to do it in an economical fashion to fit it into a product. A DSP processing system can probably improve almost any speaker system ... if it is properly set up. I see users typing in generic parameters from a spec sheet ... or even worse, manufacturers who do the same thing and then have their units "automatically set up your system" ... yeah, right. It's a difficult, time consuming task to balance out a speaker system. It takes a bunch of measuring equipment, knowing how to read and interpret the data and understanding what you can and what you can't correct. There's maybe two guys in the whole world that can really do it "by ear". That said ... I owned a Meyer rig for about 20 years and was very happy with how it performed. I have also personally set up about 50 preset presets for our VSX26 processor for use with our speakers ... and the speakers never sounded better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 I bet that DBX would say that the dirve rack would indeed make any PA sound better, and with a good engineer, maybe that would be true. With a bad engineer of course, the drive rack could make any PA sound worse too. It is really important to have appropriate expectations. An Entry Level PA is only going to sound like an Entry Level PA. An Entry Level PA WITH A DRIVE RACK is only going to sound like an Entry level PA WITH A DRIVE RACK. It is not going to sound like a $20,000 system, or a $ 100,000 system. Arguably, speaker choice will have more impact on your overall sound than any other aspect of your system. Better to spend your time and money on getting the best speakers you can get, than on buying processors perhaps... especially at the Entry Level. What do you think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 I bet that DBX would say that the dirve rack would indeed make any PA sound better, and with a good engineer, maybe that would be true. With a bad engineer of course, the drive rack could make any PA sound worse too.It is really important to have appropriate expectations. An Entry Level PA is only going to sound like an Entry Level PA. An Entry Level PA WITH A DRIVE RACK is only going to sound like an Entry level PA WITH A DRIVE RACK. It is not going to sound like a $20,000 system, or a $ 100,000 system.Arguably, speaker choice will have more impact on your overall sound than any other aspect of your system. Better to spend your time and money on getting the best speakers you can get, than on buying processors perhaps... especially at the Entry Level.What do you think of that? Makes complete sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 Yes...I agree with what you guys said here. But If high end systems like Meyer sounds that good with any processor...why shouldn't the entry level system with a processor? Of course I'd assume that the entry level system is tuned according to its optimum sound first BEFORE tweaking it further to overcome the weaknesses it may have. ANother question: If I were to use a separate 15 band stereo eq unit linked to the mixer...will the sound change with each db I increase on the mixer? Meaning will the eq setting that sounds great at 20% volume still sounds identical at say 50% volume? Or is that only possible with an intelligent processor that monitors/ senses the level of input/output of the amp/mixer..which constantly adjusts all the eq setting in real time to make the sound stay the sound no matter what volume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 20, 2007 Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 Or is that only possible with an intelligent processor that monitors/ senses the level of input/output of the amp/mixer..which constantly adjusts all the eq setting in real time to make the sound stay the sound no matter what volume? I don't know of any real-time adjustments made in a system processor except for some feedback detection stuff. The expensive boxes sound great before you add processing. The extra processing just makes it sound better. Cheap boxes sound bad without processing and sound better with it. They still don't sound as good as the High End Touring Stuff does right out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 20, 2007 Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 But If high end systems like Meyer sounds that good with any processor...why shouldn't the entry level system with a processor? Because the Meyer is much better to start with.It's tough to polish a turd, even with DSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 20, 2007 Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 Because the Meyer is much better to start with.It's tough to polish a turd, even with DSP. Hey Great Idea!!! The new and improved DSP Turd polisher. I can imagin now this certain German/Chineese company marketing it now as an Ultraturglow-DSP96:D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 what?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 20, 2007 Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 ANother question: If I were to use a separate 15 band stereo eq unit linked to the mixer...will the sound change with each db I increase on the mixer? Meaning will the eq setting that sounds great at 20% volume still sounds identical at say 50% volume? Or is that only possible with an intelligent processor that monitors/ senses the level of input/output of the amp/mixer..which constantly adjusts all the eq setting in real time to make the sound stay the sound no matter what volume? Electrical nothing will change (assuming you don't drive it to clipping). How your ear will perceive the sound will follow Fletcher-Munson. Yes ... Fletcher-Munson compensation can be added to the processing to make the whole process sound even to your ears ... no matter the volume. (More on this later:thu: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 Electrical nothing will change (assuming you don't drive it to clipping). How your ear will perceive the sound will follow Fletcher-Munson. Yes ... Fletcher-Munson compensation can be added to the processing to make the whole process sound even to your ears ... no matter the volume. (More on this later:thu: ) Fletcher-Munson..?? What? :confused: I'm so stupid. I dont understand you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 20, 2007 Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 Because the Meyer is much better to start with.It's tough to polish a turd, even with DSP. I disagree that Meyer is much better to start with (of course it depends on what you compare it to). I'd compare my old UPA speakers to SRX level in JBL component wise. The processing beats the hell out of the crossover in the SRX's sound wise. I'm agreed that adding $1k of processing to $199 speakers probably doesn't make much sense ... but it could probably make that $199 sound much better by correcting for phase problems around the crossover and adjusting the EQ ... even smoothing out the pattern control. You'd just end up with an excellent sounding speaker that would be limited in output. It's also unlikely that the average (or even advanced user could set this up without a lot of test gear). Before you disagree Andy ... don't you remember how great those little speakers that Ed Long put out sounded. They were very cheap components with a ton of engineering added to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 20, 2007 Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 Fletcher-Munson..?? What? :confused: I'm so stupid. I dont understand you. It's time to Google it , my son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 20, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 Processing is so ten minutes ago, and has been replaced by a more effective tool......marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 20, 2007 Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 I want a processor to make a mackie sound "British" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 20, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 I want a processor to make a mackie sound "British" Make a pot of tea, put on some Monty Python, and keep a stiff upper lip. That'll make it just as "British" as any other mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted February 20, 2007 Members Share Posted February 20, 2007 Make a pot of tea, put on some Monty Python, and keep a stiff upper lip. That'll make it just as "British" as any other mixer. And hang on in quiet desperation, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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