Harmony Central Forums
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

how are phonic power amps

Collapse



X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • how are phonic power amps

    im looking at the phonic max 500 power amp.how are phonic amps?are they transparent sounding?any info appreciated.
    R.I.P My precious daughter Aubrey Marie May 20th to May 23rd 2006,Mommy,Daddy and Cam love and miss you.

    http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aubreymarie2006/

    My marshall 12 series super lead clone.Vanhalen clips..
    http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5540645

  • #2
    I have the Phonic MAR 6 amp. 600W at 4ohms. Built like a tank. A very good bargain for the money...true value for money. NEVER break down on me...not even once since 1999. It was actually my Dad's...and he passed it on to my husband (then boyfriend)...and now I use it for my shows.

    As i understand it, the better amp will be their XP2000 series. I've heard it before...and AB'd it with MAR 6. The XP2000 has more refined highs...sweeter if you will....and has a more pronounced mid lows.

    Not that the MAR 6 is bad. Not at all.It's a cheaper amp than the XP...so surely there is a difference.You get what you pay for..yes?

    The MAX series is not the amp that's meant for pros. It's a bit harsh in the mid range and lack the 'bottom'....and also sounds 'hollow'.

    Go for the XP series instead.

    Comment


    • #3
      There's a club across the street from my place that uses one (forgot the model number). The sound is a little gritty to my ears but that could be a result from anything in the signal chain (mixer, eq, etc). No issues since installation in 2002.

      V.

      Comment


      • #4
        ...or the real prob could be the SOUNDMAN's poor and amateur sense of tweaking the system!

        Comment


        • #5
          As i understand it, the better amp will be their XP2000 series. I've heard it before...and AB'd it with MAR 6. The XP2000 has more refined highs...sweeter if you will....and has a more pronounced mid lows.

          Not that the MAR 6 is bad. Not at all.It's a cheaper amp than the XP...so surely there is a difference.You get what you pay for..yes?

          The MAX series is not the amp that's meant for pros. It's a bit harsh in the mid range and lack the 'bottom'....and also sounds 'hollow'.

          Go for the XP series instead.



          I've never heard any difference sound quality wise between any power amps I've ever owned or used (aside from the amount of fan noise). Unless an amp has hi/low pass filters engaged or some kind of high freq/low freq boost, there is no reason one amp should sound better than another. Except when driven to clipping and of course some switching power supply amps that do not push subs as well as standard ones. Other than that, I think most differences are imaginary or have to do with the test conditions or simply one amp having higher sensitivity than another and appearing slighly louder to the listener - who interprets this as better sounding. In a measured and well controlled blindfold listening test, I doubt such big differences would be heard. Al
          KV2 KX12s - Yamaha DXR15s, RCF ART 310A , Yamaha DXR8 - Yamaha DXS12 subs, Wharfedale Titan 12 actives, Yamaha MG12/4 mixer X 2, Peavey PV10 mixer, Yorkville PGM8 mixer - Many Sony MD players (home and portable), Shure cordless microphone and a variety of LED lighting effects.

          Comment


          • #6
            I tend to agree with Al's comments. Double-blind testing reveals that many perceived differences are imaginary at best. This applies to many things beyond audio too.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

            Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

            Comment


            • #7
              I tend to agree with Al's comments. Double-blind testing reveals that many perceived differences are imaginary at best. This applies to many things beyond audio too.

              +1 with what Al and Andy say... sound wise.

              I attended the infamous amp shoot-out in Berkeley CA a few years ago. The focus of the shoot-out was a very well done A-B listening test covering maybe 15 or so pairs of amps. To my recollection, the testing proved that it was extremely difficult to pin-point differences in the "sound" of amps. If there were differences, they were statistically insignificant.

              However, I did learn something... while personally packing every single amp supplied for the shoot-out... something on the order of maybe 40 amps or so and covering a wide spectrum of makes and models. I can tell you there's huge differences in quality of construction and accoutrements... to say nothing of the differences I saw in otherwise somewhat over-looked but important details like owner's manuals.

              FWIW: There were no Phonic amps at the shoot-out that I remember... but what was there seemed to be a representation the who's who of the well accepted and higher regarded amplifier makes and models (and one Phase Linear 400).

              Comment


              • #8
                is it me...or am I the only odd one here who can hear the difference from one amp to another? My ears are pretty sensitive to music pitches and frequencies.

                Ok..let's not talk about pro audio amps. Let's talk about hi-fi amps.

                If there's no difference in sound quality...why is there such a drastic change in sound quality between hi-fi amps then?? Or is it that you mean that in pro audio...there's no audible difference in sound quality from pro audio amps?

                I have a Arcam Alpha hi-fi amp in my living room. My husband has a Audiolab hi-fi amp in our hall. We AB'd both the amps..and there IS a lot of difference between the two amps. The Arcam sounded smoother....richer vocals...more 'polite'...while the latter sounded more 'punch'....more mids...and more 'forward'.

                Why shouldn't a pro audio amp be any different in sound quality then? I'm not trying to take you guys up here....but stating that I indeed can tell the difference between amps...pro-audio or not.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've never heard any difference sound quality wise between any power amps I've ever owned or used (aside from the amount of fan noise). Unless an amp has hi/low pass filters engaged or some kind of high freq/low freq boost, there is no reason one amp should sound better than another. Except when driven to clipping and of course some switching power supply amps that do not push subs as well as standard ones. Other than that, I think most differences are imaginary or have to do with the test conditions or simply one amp having higher sensitivity than another and appearing slighly louder to the listener - who interprets this as better sounding. In a measured and well controlled blindfold listening test, I doubt such big differences would be heard. Al


                  I must agree. The differences sonicly between power amps for live use are negligable. The biggest and only important differences are durability and features (I'm not a fan of unneeded bells and whistles but a limiter built into the amp which is already calibrated to limit just before the amps voltage rail is reached can save you tons of hassle and blown drivers (the cost of one recone could be more than the price difference).
                  J.R. Previously jrble

                  See my Dog Of The Hair studio at: http://www.dogoth.com/studio/

                  Quote from someone: Flat response? Get out the jack and change the tire.
                  If you think "power is knowledge", you have it backwards.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Ok..let's not talk about pro audio amps. Let's talk about hi-fi amps.

                    If there's no difference in sound quality...why is there such a drastic change in sound quality between hi-fi amps then?? Or is it that you mean that in pro audio...there's no audible difference in sound quality from pro audio amps?

                    I have a Arcam Alpha hi-fi amp in my living room. My husband has a Audiolab hi-fi amp in our hall. We AB'd both the amps..and there IS a lot of difference between the two amps. The Arcam sounded smoother....richer vocals...more 'polite'...while the latter sounded more 'punch'....more mids...and more 'forward'.

                    Why shouldn't a pro audio amp be any different in sound quality then? I'm not trying to take you guys up here....but stating that I indeed can tell the difference between amps...pro-audio or not.



                    For your hi-fi amps, you did compare them using the same speakers etc... right? How about pre-amps? Do each of these amplifiers use a pre-amp designed to work with each particular amplifier? Any of these have a CD direct or simply Direct function that bypasses all of the pre-amps processing. If you can compare both amplifiers, CD direct, without any of the pre-amps processing, using same speakers etc... I would be surprised you could reliably identify which one is playing in a blind listening test. (all levels perfectly matched of course) If there are any differences, which is possible (I know some cheaper receivers do put out more total harmonic distortion than others or have better signal to noise ratio etc... - also i have seen low end receivers with a frequency response starting at 40hz rather than the standard 20hz in which case, you would hear less deep bass in a speaker that can reproduce it). Thing is, in live sound, there are probably such small differences too. But, most PA speakers are not made to be nearly as accurate as hi-fi speakers, so you would not hear such insignificant differences - especially in most pa settings. In a whisper quiet living room, with very expensive speakers, maybe but.... ??? Does 2000$ speaker wire sound better than 400$ speaker wire? To the one who bought the 2000$ speaker wire, damn right! Al
                    KV2 KX12s - Yamaha DXR15s, RCF ART 310A , Yamaha DXR8 - Yamaha DXS12 subs, Wharfedale Titan 12 actives, Yamaha MG12/4 mixer X 2, Peavey PV10 mixer, Yorkville PGM8 mixer - Many Sony MD players (home and portable), Shure cordless microphone and a variety of LED lighting effects.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Al. Yes...I AB'd them as you mentioned. Both amps were compared using the same cables, CD player, song and speakers. We used the direct function at all times on both amps.

                      The difference is not a little. It's quite apparent.

                      The point I'm making here is there is a difference in sound quality from different power amps.

                      If there's no sound quality difference...then a Behringer power amp is as good as Crown Macrotech amp then? let's not talk about parts and reliability..but solely on SOUND QUALITY. Since you guys said there's no difference in sound quality, then any behringer amp will sound the SAME as an expensive Crown amp. Right?

                      HOwever, if you guys think I'm wrong, then I'll move on.

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        If there's no sound quality difference...then a Behringer power amp is as good as Crown Macrotech amp then? let's not talk about parts and reliability..but solely on SOUND QUALITY. Since you guys said there's no difference in sound quality, then any behringer amp will sound the SAME as an expensive Crown amp. Right?

                        .



                        At regular listening levels, yes the Behringer will sound basically the same as the Crown Macrotech or Mackie M1400 or ????.unless there is something really wrong in it's design. Amps are designed to amplify a signal, not to color/modify the sound - unless low/high pass filters or Low/high boosts are activated by the user. At lower impedances however, driving difficult loads, there will probably be a sound difference between the Behringer and the Macrotech. And after ten years of driving such difficult loads at low impedances, I'll wager one amp will be dead quiet while the other will be still performing...
                        KV2 KX12s - Yamaha DXR15s, RCF ART 310A , Yamaha DXR8 - Yamaha DXS12 subs, Wharfedale Titan 12 actives, Yamaha MG12/4 mixer X 2, Peavey PV10 mixer, Yorkville PGM8 mixer - Many Sony MD players (home and portable), Shure cordless microphone and a variety of LED lighting effects.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          From Yorkville's audio guide :


                          ''Over the years manufacturers have honed the design of PA power amplifiers to a fine edge. As a result, it's really hard to find a modern amp which doesn't live up its specifications. In reality, there isn't much wrong for a power amp to do. They have virtually flat frequency response so differences in sound are often more imaginary than real, although some of the ultra-compact amps with "switching" power supplies may not be quite as good at driving subwoofers as the heavier ones with conventional power supplies. Aside from that, however, the only continuing difference between power amplifiers is reliability and even that tends to be less of a variable as designs improve. We specify "PA" power amplifiers for a reason however; home stereo power amps are perhaps not ideal candidates for the rigors of life in the pro audio world.'' Al
                          KV2 KX12s - Yamaha DXR15s, RCF ART 310A , Yamaha DXR8 - Yamaha DXS12 subs, Wharfedale Titan 12 actives, Yamaha MG12/4 mixer X 2, Peavey PV10 mixer, Yorkville PGM8 mixer - Many Sony MD players (home and portable), Shure cordless microphone and a variety of LED lighting effects.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Unless it's a dreadful design (yes there are a few of these still around, mostly in the DJ market), there will be virtually no audible difference between power amplifiers under normal operating conditions. Where audible differences do occur is under high power 2 ohm loads, with the various filter options selected, at the clip and limit point of the amp etc. This is where the pro amps shine.

                            Reliability is another BIG difference, thermal headroom, plus the option of high performance light weight units.

                            If there was really a difference in the sound of the amps (of course you normalized the gains right???) then one of the amps is either a horrible design or something is wrong with it and it needs to be serviced.
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                            Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              YOu do know I respect you guys...with your years and years of experience. This is something that I just can't seem to comprehend : A Behringer amp sounds as good as a top notch Crown amp at regular listening volume.

                              Hmm...perhaps I'm missing something here:

                              Assuming that I'm driving a 400W pair of passive speakers at 4 ohms all the time for my shows together with a self-powered sub.

                              That will mean a humble made in China Behringer power amp will sound as good as an amp that costs 10 times more? That's what you guys are saying, yes? A Behringer amp sounds just like an expensive Crown amp at regular volume?

                              Again...I'm not gonna talk about 2ohms, reliability, etc...all those things. I'm talking about SOUND QUALITY..which is the paramount important thing for me. I just want to be proven that I'm wrong and that you guys are right.

                              Comment













                              Working...
                              X