Members faroutbob Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 am I insane? Ok, I mainly play acoustic solo, acoustic duo (with drummer), and in a 3 piece band - full with elec guitar, bass, and drums. I play without a monitor whenever possible. In most cases I'm able to hear enough of the main speaker to hear myself fine in terms of singing and my guitar. If anything, I'll put a slight amount in the monitor. I absolutely hate hearing myself in a dry monitor mix. I want to hear what the audience is hearing, with effects and all. It probably also comes from the fact that I usually have to run our sound from the stage and want to have an idea that the levels are OK, etc. But even in the occasional situations where I play a place with house sound, I hate dealing with monitor mixes. rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 your loss I suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Wow. Standing on stage only hearing the bleed from the mains. You never get to hear a good show. That would suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axemanchris Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Singing without being able to hear yourself = suicide. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Singers of popular music worked without monitors for decades. When drummers started getting their thrills from pounding on the drums instead of making the groove - which caused guitarists to crank up to compensate - the monitor was "invented". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faroutbob Posted February 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I can hear myself. I wouldn't play blind and not know if I'm singing on key etc. It's just more enjoyable for me to hear a bleed of the FOH sound than a monitor mix. I'm wierd - I know. I started the thread to see if anyone feels the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Sometimes I don't need them, if the show is not too loud I sometimes just use a earplug in one ear to help keep my tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate them, but I would rather nt have any than have a bad mix... As far as wanting to hear what the audience is hearing, it'll never happen from the stage, just get used to that..... Playing acoustic stuff you should be able to find your pitch and level from your guitar, I can see where you wouldn't necessarily NEED a monitor in small situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Singers of popular music worked without monitors for decades. When drummers started getting their thrills from pounding on the drums instead of making the groove - which caused guitarists to crank up to compensate - the monitor was "invented". Yes, they sung without monitors because they HAD to, just like they sung for years without PA because there was no PA. YOu do know that movies had no sound on film until 1929 right? They would have had sound and dialog before that if they could but it wasn't possible. I worked with plenty of the older big band type folks (the real ones) and without an exception, when good monitors and mix were available, they wanted to use them. It made performing a good show easier and more enjoyable for all involved. Progress is not always a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 am I insane? yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted February 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2007 I must say quitting the large venue sound business and no longer working with a big crew and state of the art equipment, to become a band in small Austin venues has been a humbling experience. Having to angle the house speakers inward and do without monitors, mixing from the stage while trying to play definitely gives me a renewed appreciation for the luxury of having good monitors and a dedicated sound guy. I'm sure this is all character building, though. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 So Terry, would you rather spend your time playing guitar or measuring pavement noise??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atabner Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 If you want to hear exactly what the audience is hearing on stage, have a look at the Bose Cylindrical Radiator PA system. I don't know what the board opinion on this system is, especially as it seems to make having a sound guy redundant in situations where its use is appropriate, but I play in an acoustic trio and it looks perfect for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rinkydinkron Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 am I insane? Ok, I mainly play acoustic solo, acoustic duo (with drummer), and in a 3 piece band - full with elec guitar, bass, and drums. I play without a monitor whenever possible. In most cases I'm able to hear enough of the main speaker to hear myself fine in terms of singing and my guitar. If anything, I'll put a slight amount in the monitor. I absolutely hate hearing myself in a dry monitor mix. I want to hear what the audience is hearing, with effects and all. It probably also comes from the fact that I usually have to run our sound from the stage and want to have an idea that the levels are OK, etc. But even in the occasional situations where I play a place with house sound, I hate dealing with monitor mixes. rant over. I understand where your coming from Faroutbob. For many years i played without monitors mainly due to the fact that i was extremely poor and couldn't afford them and you do develop techniques to compensate for not having any. Having used monitors for a while now though i could never go back to using just the mains. I think the whole problem is usually the monitor mix bears little resemblance to the FOH mix and some folks don't like that. I would suggest trying in ear monitors. The sooner floor monitors become a thing of the past the better in my book,they are an endless source of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 ...I absolutely hate hearing myself in a dry monitor mix. I want to hear what the audience is hearing, with effects and all. .. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members obgust Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I can hear myself. I wouldn't play blind and not know if I'm singing on key etc. It's just more enjoyable for me to hear a bleed of the FOH sound than a monitor mix. I'm wierd - I know. I started the thread to see if anyone feels the same. I prefer a blend actually. I like to be able to hear a little FOH, enough to hear that they are working and filling the room. Since most of what I hear from behind them is LF, the monitor provides me with the missing upper frequencies. If you are not in ear shot of the horn, you are missing a whole lot of the show. I have even tried playing in front of the mains (on sticks above my head for the most gain before feedback), but only heard the low range of my performance; never the top end shimmer of my acoustic guitar and mandolin, or the clarity of my vocal tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Everyone has their own preference on stage and it may also depend on what type of music you play.I prefer them not too loud with no effects.Back when I played country music we did a lot of harmonies and the monitors were essential.I bet there are others who have played with someone who had to have their monitor up too loud because their amp is too loud.But then again I'm a geezer and have no plans to switch to IEM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 But then again I'm a geezer and have no plans to switch to IEM's. I'm not sure how being old prevents the use of IEMs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I'm not sure how being old prevents the use of IEMs? probably just set in my ways on how I like the stage set up.I am comfortable with wedges and like them.I am certainly not against IEM's,just never tried them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I could care less about having a monitor when I'm playing... 'course, I play bass, and don't sing... and so long as I can hear the snare pop, the instrument leads, and some indication of the lead vocalist, I'm good to go. Just prop me up in-front of my bass rig, and I'm smiling. Generally, I'd just as soon not have a wedge monitor since I'm usually keeping an ear to the mains anyway... and one less monitor on stage is just less clutter and less GBF issues. But then I played professionally for about a decade without any monitors on stage, plus I was doing all the mixing from stage while playing bass, so I developed a taste for/got real in-tuned to listening to the mains and the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Some of us geezers simply prefer listening to what we're playing without having things stuck in our ears. I'm not sure how being old prevents the use of IEMs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I have never played with monitors ....All of my gigging was years ago before bands had all the fancy gizmos. Its just somthing you learn to do. we had very tight 3 part harmony plus a horn section on stage. All the instrument mixing was done right off the volume on the backline amps. THe brass went out through a separate set of PA speakers ,, the vocals went out through a set of double 15's with driver horns. It was pretty easy ,,, you just ran the vocals on top of the mix and mixed your own instrument by using the rule if you can hear yourself too good you are too loud. I see so many bands get so involved in micing things though PAs that end up sounding like crap ,,,, that i sometimes wonder if the old caveman back line, and vocal only PA set up wasnt better in most non arena settings. One thing for sure ,, is that you leaned how to control volume. We never miced drums sets. Its not that monitors are bad ... its just that i think all the gear tends to slow down the process of players really learning how to blend with other instruments in a mix with out a zookeeper.. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 you just ran the vocals on top of the mix and mixed your own instrument by using the rule if you can hear yourself too good you are too loud. I see so many bands get so involved in micing things though PAs that end up sounding like crap I have seen it done both ways. I have heard it sound like crap both ways. The stuff we use is not magic. They are tools. Tools that when used well sound good and when used poorly sound bad. Give 5 guitar players the same Martin D-28 and you will get 5 different sounds. The tools do not replace the musician (and yes, good soundmen are musicians as well!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I like it loud. VERY loud, depending on context. We never miced drums sets. Its not that monitors are bad ... its just that i think all the gear tends to slow down the process of players really learning how to blend with other instruments in a mix with out a zookeeper.. rat That said, I definitely agree in part. There are many venues that hold maybe 150 to 200 people; there's no call whatsoever to mic a drumset under those circumstances (unless for recording, and even then the drums ought not go into the PA). Yet you'll find soundguys micing everything, (sometimes) telling the band to turn down.... and then cranking the PA til your ears bleed. That's why in those instances where I've been asked to do sound, I take a different approach. I seek to get the band as comfortable with their onstage sound (at whatever volume they like) as possible, and then use the PA only to roll that stage sound out to the audience. For the most part, at smaller venues it means the PA functions only to fill in the gaps since the onstage sound does most of the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 The tools do not replace the musician (and yes, good soundmen are musicians as well!). I can see how a guy on the board can make a difference. But I have also heard enough small time bands to know ,, a ton of them sound like {censored} because they are just trying to stuff too much stuff through a PA that isnt able to handle it. They get way too involved in the process of trying to run things like the big boys ,,, without the equipment or the ability to do it right. Personally if i were ever to do the monitor thing ,, i would go in the ear. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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