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Upgrade path from Mackie 808S & 2 Peavey SP5

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  • #16
    BTW, I did buy the MixWiz3 16:2 for $650. I checked it all out and the only thing different from one NIB was a little dust! I'm really happy with this purchase.

    So now that leaves me $1350 (Ok, I'll round up to $1,500) for additional equipment.

    Inventory so far....

    1 MixWiz3 16:2
    1 Mackie 808S Powered Mixer (for monitors...or more if possible)
    2 Peavey SP5's (400 Watt RMS)

    Thanks again for everyone's help!

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    • #17
      I'm sure the GX5 is 500 watts per side RMS at 8 ohms. May be a little much for those SP5's, but you could always run 2 on channel two for 700 watts at 4 ohms or 350 per box. Should be fine. Two 8 ohm subs on channel one (crossover switch on.) Or even one sub.
      <div class="signaturecontainer">HC Geezer Brigade Trooper #51</div>

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      • #18
        I'm sure the GX5 is 500 watts per side RMS at 8 ohms. May be a little much for those SP5's, but you could always run 2 on channel two for 700 watts at 4 ohms or 350 per box. Should be fine. Two 8 ohm subs on channel one (crossover switch on.) Or even one sub.

        Thanks for the reply!

        How do you know that the GX5 is 500 watts RMS at 8 ohms? Every specification I can find on it doesn't list if the watts are RMS or not.

        Directly from their web site, QSC recommends a 500 watt (program) speaker for the GX5. By their own admission, they say that loudspeaker manufacturers recommend an amplifier with power output equal to the speaker's "Program (Music) Power" rating or two times (2 x) the "Continuous (RMS) Power" rating.

        So, if it's 2 times continuous (RMS, right?) which equals Program watts, then they are making a recommendation for the GX5 to pair a 500 watt (program) speaker with a 250 watt RMS amp.

        They speak of this again in their FAQ.

        I'm certainly not trying to cause trouble, but the only "proof" that's out there that I can find about the RMS rating of the amp is their speaker recommendation. Their specs just don't mention the wattage type. That in itself is a little suspicious to me.

        I think the whole point of the "5" in GX5 is that you match up the Program rating of the amp with the program rating of the speaker.

        Thanks again!

        Comment


        • #19
          Thanks for the reply!

          How do you know that the GX5 is 500 watts RMS at 8 ohms? Every specification I can find on it doesn't list if the watts are RMS or not.

          Directly from their web site, QSC recommends a 500 watt (program) speaker for the GX5. By their own admission, they say that loudspeaker manufacturers recommend an amplifier with power output equal to the speaker's "Program (Music) Power" rating or two times (2 x) the "Continuous (RMS) Power" rating.

          So, if it's 2 times continuous (RMS, right?) which equals Program watts, then they are making a recommendation for the GX5 to pair a 500 watt (program) speaker with a 250 watt RMS amp.

          They speak of this again in their FAQ.

          I'm certainly not trying to cause trouble, but the only "proof" that's out there that I can find about the RMS rating of the amp is their speaker recommendation. Their specs just don't mention the wattage type. That in itself is a little suspicious to me.

          I think the whole point of the "5" in GX5 is that you match up the Program rating of the amp with the program rating of the speaker.

          Thanks again!


          Well I'm pretty sure, but you could always email or call QSC and ask. I wouldn't get too hung up on all that 2X program crap. For what it's worth we run a QSC GX3 (300 watts per channel at 8 ohms) into a pair of for-install SP5's (115TF) and it's plenty loud for us. The SP5's are rated 400 watts RMS which I never understood since the 15" Scorpions are only rated 250 watts or something like that. If I were you I would err on the side of caution.
          <div class="signaturecontainer">HC Geezer Brigade Trooper #51</div>

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          • #20
            QSC does NOT list a "program" rating for their amps. "Program" power is a speaker maker invention that has become accepted and commonplace to let people know what size amplifier to buy. The only amps to worry about are those of the "pyramid/pyle" types that list multiple wattages with no basis in testing, a leftover from the stereo wars of the 1970's.

            If the QSC manual is unclear to you, simply ASK THEM over at www.qsc.com in their forums. They have many forums for all their gear.

            The GX amp series is a steal for a QSC product.

            Boomerweps

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            • #21
              QSC does NOT list a "program" rating for their amps. "Program" power is a speaker maker invention that has become accepted and commonplace to let people know what size amplifier to buy. The only amps to worry about are those of the "pyramid/pyle" types that list multiple wattages with no basis in testing, a leftover from the stereo wars of the 1970's.

              If the QSC manual is unclear to you, simply ASK THEM over at www.qsc.com in their forums. They have many forums for all their gear.

              The GX amp series is a steal for a QSC product.

              Boomerweps

              Thanks! Yep, I've signed up for the forums already, but it takes an administrator to approve before I can post. I do intend to ask this question on the support forum soon.

              I really wouldn't question the ratings except for what they say about their recommendation. Because what they recommend is based on a 250 watt rms amp.

              Let's say we remove this particular amp from the equation and if you follow their advice, they are describing a 250 watt rms amp. If the GX5 is indeed a 500 watt RMS amp @ 8 ohms, then it would be in their best interest to recommend a speaker at 1000 W program (based on their reasoning). That would increase their sales because you'd have an even more powerful amp at that price point.

              Maybe I'm full of it...I don't know.

              Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.

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              • #22
                I think most folks here would suggest you forget all that 2X program nonsense and match your speakers RMS ratings. In other words if you have a 400 watt RMS speaker (SP5) run it with a 400 watt RMS amp or an amp reasonably close. Too much power and you are looking at repair bills.
                <div class="signaturecontainer">HC Geezer Brigade Trooper #51</div>

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                • #23
                  I think most folks here would suggest you forget all that 2X program nonsense and match your speakers RMS ratings. In other words if you have a 400 watt RMS speaker (SP5) run it with a 400 watt RMS amp or an amp reasonably close. Too much power and you are looking at repair bills.


                  Makes sense!

                  The way I was going to match amps to speakers was from what Mogwix said on this forum post here. Towards the bottom he says...
                  To be clear: If you have an 8ohm speaker rated for 500W RMS/ 1000W program. It's a good idea to find an amp that's anywhere from 500W to 1000W at 8 ohms. 750W is ideal, according to most here. General rule being power at 1.5x RMS. This way you're giving the speaker enough power to perform at it's fullest, yet not too much power that you risk damage. Beyond this, more amplifier power generally yields diminishing returns, and change for damage rises exponentially.
                  That sounds like sense too.

                  Comment


                  • #24


                    Does this suggest that the GX5 must be 250 RMS (500 Program), particularly if going by the advice from the 1st paragraph?

                    If this is correct, it just irritates me that QSC provides different watt types (RMS vs Program) for different brand of amps in their specs.

                    Thanks again for the reply.


                    I had to bring up this posting because I CANNOT find where this quote you found came from. The QSC GX manual I have downloaded does not have it. Bottom line: There is NO PROGRAM RATING listed on this amplifier's manual, neither explicit nor infered! Stop being fixated on this term when discussing only amplifiers. It does not exist in amplifier ratings except for poorly manufactured units that are trying to advertise a power rating far past their clipping point.

                    The GX5 amp is 500 watts at 8 ohms and 700 watts at 4 ohms rated. Match it to 500 watt program rated 8 ohm speakers OR 700 watt program rated 4 ohm speakers (or load per side) or 250 watt RMS/Continuous rated 8 ohm speakers.

                    Boomerweps

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                    • #25
                      It may very well be 500 rms at 8 ohms, but I couldn't find out positively from the specs because it just says "500". The manual is here -> http://media.qscaudio.com/pdfs/Specifications/GX_spec.pdf.

                      But they do recommend a 500 watt (Program) speaker for the GX5.


                      It's pretty clearly called out ... GX5 - 500W @ 1kHz both channels driven into 8 ohms at onset of clipping.

                      Amplifiers do not have "program ratings". That would be meaningless.
                      Don Boomer

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                      • #26
                        Well aren't "program ratings" pretty meaningless anyway. Just give me RMS ratings any day. If amps are rated RMS then why don't the speaker manufacturers just give us RMS ratings? Would make it pretty easy for everyone to match speaker and amp.
                        <div class="signaturecontainer">HC Geezer Brigade Trooper #51</div>

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                        • #27
                          It's pretty clearly called out ... GX5 - 500W @ 1kHz both channels driven into 8 ohms at onset of clipping.

                          Amplifiers do not have "program ratings". That would be meaningless.

                          Thanks! I didn't know that....I'm certainly in learning mode. So all power ratings for all amps are always in RMS. Got it.

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                          • #28
                            Thanks! I didn't know that....I'm certainly in learning mode. So all power ratings for all amps are always in RMS. Got it.


                            From reputable amp makers yes.
                            <div class="signaturecontainer">HC Geezer Brigade Trooper #51</div>

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                            • #29
                              Just give me RMS ratings any day. If amps are rated RMS then why don't the speaker manufacturers just give us RMS ratings?


                              Actually RMS Watts in technically incorrect anyway. The correct term is "continuous Watts"

                              The reason speaker manufacturers specify "program" power is because you cannot drive a power amplifier to full continuous power using music as the source.

                              Here's what is really happening when you hook a 250 w continuous speaker up to it's program rated amp of 500 w. At the time you first fire the clip lights (any usually fire the limiter) you are actually delivering about 50 continuous watts. Even with very highly compressed material it is unlikely that you could ever actually deliver 150-200 continuous watts to that speaker.

                              Second thing ... all "continuous/rms ratings are not the same amount of power anyway. In this case the power is specified at 1 kHz. It would be typical that the power possible at 40 Hz from the same amp would likely fall of by at least 20%
                              Don Boomer

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                              • #30
                                Here's what is really happening when you hook a 250 w continuous speaker up to it's program rated amp of 500 w.

                                Now this confuses me. I thought we just said that amps don't have "program rating." Or are you saying when we hook up a 250 Watt continuous speaker up to a 500 watt amp.

                                Sorry, just trying to figure this out.

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