Members MrJoshua Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 I have a small bar rig that I use for our shows in, you guessed it, small bars. My mains are Peavey Impulse 1012 (12" with horn, 500W RMS). Right now I'm running a two-way system with the Impulses above 18" subs. The Peaveys have biamp imputs on them to power the horns and woofers separately. Any real benefit to this? I'd probably upgrade my crossover if I did this (right now I'm using a Peavey P23XO 2-way stereo / 3-way mono), and the woofers would be powered by a QSC PL236 (800W/channel at 8 ohms - right now this is the amp that powers the mains) while the horns would be powered by an RMX 850 (200W/channel at 8 ohms - right now this amp is just a spare in case an amp fails during a show). I might just swap over to mono if I go three-way (honestly even running stereo I just use it as a dual-mono system, so nothing would really be lost there) which means I wouldn't be having to buy any new equipment to do this. I'd just have to do a little rewiring. Or am I just overthinking a bar rig (again) and should just keep it as simple as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ezstep Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 When you play the outdoor gig(s) and you need loud sound for a few hundred people, then worry about tri-amping. But not before then. K.I.S.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 A good passive crossover will sound just about the same as bi-amp. (Not worrying about your subs.) There is more complexity. My system is tri-amp, but I have different speakers that I use and the DriveRack PA is setup with multiple configurations. (Including one for a club that has their own speakers, but doesn't have anti-feedback or good EQ and crossovers. We just use our PA stack there.) Also, I have old technology speakers. The horns are rated 35 watts. (110 db spl at 1 watt/meter. I think it's cool) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Any real benefit to this? Done properly ... increased dynamic range and punch, driver protection and probably improved frequency response (if you use the factory VSX presets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted September 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Done properly ... increased dynamic range and punch, driver protection and probably improved frequency response (if you use the factory VSX presets) Are there presets in the VSX for the Impulse mains? This is one thing I was looking at if I decided to go this way but I haven't found anything about the VSX having Impulse presets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 If you decide to do this, make sure your configuration will protect your horns from the low amps. All of my outputs are 4 conductor speakon connectors. In every case, the +/- 2 set is hooked up to the horn amp. None of the other possible mismatches are likely to blow a speaker if hooked up wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 Passive crossovers have only one method of dissipating the energy they absorb ..... heat. There are some really good passive cross-overs in some speakers (my Klipsch 301's have an exceptional crossover in them). I think that it is better to use a digital cross-over or active cross-over prior to speakers. No matter how good a speaker cross-over is, it can't hope to compete with the quality of a dedicated cross-over unit. I have compromised on my system. I cross over subs to tops, but do only 2 way. I let the Klipsch passive cross-over take care of the mids and highs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 The practical benefits of GOOD passive crossovers are simplicity, and this CAN come at a very small performance penalty. In some cases, the penalty is inconsequential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted September 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 If you decide to do this, make sure your configuration will protect your horns from the low amps. All of my outputs are 4 conductor speakon connectors. In every case, the +/- 2 set is hooked up to the horn amp. None of the other possible mismatches are likely to blow a speaker if hooked up wrong. The Speakon connectors on the Peavey mains are wired with 2+/2- going to the highs, so I should be protected there. I just ordered a new Audiopile rack case for my power amps (the old Gator wheeled 8-space is starting to show its age so I'm upgrading), and when it gets here I'll probably move the crossover from the FOH rack into the amp rack and wire things up to run mono 3-way, just to try it out. I can always swap back later if I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 Sounds like you're moving the electronic crossover out of the amp rack. I like mine in the amp rack. (Wish the amps were lighter.) In that club where we use their speakers, the subs are wired to +/- 2 set speakons. Don't know if that's normal for JBL subs, but I don't like it and if they were mine, I'd be making permanent changes. On that job, we use banana connectors to 1/4" phone plugs for the subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 1+/- for subs (and lows on top cabinets) is pretty much standard BUTthere are those who do not follow this. I've got some built up input/output panels that may be surplus, all NL-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted September 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 1+/- for subs (and lows on top cabinets) is pretty much standard BUTthere are those who do not follow this.I've got some built up input/output panels that may be surplus, all NL-4 I have an I/O panel on my amp rack with NL-4 connectors. It won't be any trouble to change the wiring for a couple and make them 1+/- for the mids and 2+/- for the highs. I'll rewire the XLR inputs, too, with one now going to the crossover and two going to the monitor amp. To WynnD, I'm actually talking about moving the electronic crossover INTO the amp rack. I'm double-thinking that now, though, as I'd have to re-wire my I/O panel since right now I have XLR inputs going to the input terminals on the amps. The crossover has XLR inputs, so I'd need to replace the wiring I have now or put XLR ends on the mains inputs, either way. The only real difference will be how many returns I have to use for the mains - one if the crossover is in the amp rack, or three (highs-mids-lows) if the crossover stays in the FOH rack. I have eight returns on the snake, though, and only run two monitor mixes so it's not like I'm going to run out of returns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 it's not like I'm going to run out of returns... You say that now, but 2 monitor returns sounds a little light to me. My band is using three currently and four sounds like it's coming very soon. (Any more and I'll have to change mixers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted September 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 You say that now, but 2 monitor returns sounds a little light to me. My band is using three currently and four sounds like it's coming very soon. (Any more and I'll have to change mixers.) Most of the places we play, the monitors are maybe six feet apart. Running more than two mixes just gets silly because they're so close together that you can't really tell the difference anyway. Next show I'm thinking of setting the main monitors on poles right behind the mains and pointing them back at the band, in fact, instead of setting them at the front of the stage (which puts them maybe three feet in front of the singers - it's a small stage). I might add another power amp now that I'll be getting a bigger rack case so I can run more monitors if I want to (plus I'm a big believer in having a spare available just in case) ... but with eight returns, even if I keep the crossover in the FOH rack that still gives me five returns for monitor mixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 I really prefer the crossovers in the amp racks, properly set for the speakers and then locked off to keep prying fingers away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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