Members mbarsott Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 Since the PA topic seems to be very popular here, I would like your opinion...We don't play live yet, but we are rehearsing for duo acts, mostly classic rock/grunge/blues and we may soon start at some small venues. I don't expect anything larger than 200 people, indoors, for at least a couple of years.We also need a mixer with at least 6 channels, I think (two microphones for vocals, guitar, bass, electric piano, backing track).I am thinking about getting a portable PA, but I'm still in doubt of what would be better... portable PA with mixer, like Fender passport or JBL 210, or amplified mixer with passive speakers, or regular mixer with powered speakers. What do you guys use/think? Model recommendations are welcome.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 Budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 Budget? Very good question Under a thousand dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 I would ask this in live sound and production. And second question is do you need bass or subs? Any drums tracks on your tunes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 I would ask this in live sound and production. And second question is do you need bass or subs? Any drums tracks on your tunes? Oh yeah, we have drum tracks... we wish we had a drummer! Yeah, I am reading a thread there exactly about powered subwoofers... expensive beasts, they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 1000.00 bucks is tough. I have a B52 matrix 1000 v2, it's a 15 inch sub with two 10", the amp is built into the sub. You can them new for about 900.00, that's without your mixer or mics or direct input gizmo's. For 1000.00 bucks including a mixer, hard to get anything decent for what you require. I was going to suggest the http://www.avguy.com/yorkville-eliteexcursion1000.htm Yorkville 15" sub with two 8" speaks would blow away the B52 I'm thnking and running @ about $1500.00Yorkville has an 18" version of the same system but I think they run about $2500.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 we run a 4 piece through two eons , with bass, and lead guitars through back line amps, and run the drum loops through a old fender rumble amp behind the backline. Works great and its cheap. For shows where we use a drummer ,, its just the powered PA speakers no subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 So apparently 1000 bucks is not enough for 200 people... I came up with that figure because someone had suggested me the Bose portable PA (L1 Compact) that if I am not mistaken, was for audiences of up to 200 people and costs 999. Of course, that does not includes the mixer. The EON 210p is also 999, but I think 300W is not enough... I was also thinking about Fender Passport 500, but again, 500W may not be enough. Last thing I researched was a Behringer powered mixer with passive loudspeakers, but I definitely have not enough experience to know what is worth for the scenario I described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 5, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 look for used gear....forget the Passports...inefficient loudspeakers and suspiciously over-spec'ed amp... we did this exercise a while back, and I think we figured out that you could find used decent powered speakers and a passive mixer in that range, but stands/sticks, mics, cables, will push you past the grand line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 If you were in the US (but you are not), the best deal I know of currently is the M-Audio GSR-12 powered two-way speaker (300 W) for $180 US plus shipping. That would leave you with money for a passive mixer, speaker stands, and some XLR cables. I personally have gone the powered speaker/passive mixer route. I think that I have a more scalable system that way. I can use a bigger or smaller mixer (depending on the number of input channels I need), and can add speakers without adding or matching amplifiers. I also can get better DSP built in to a powered speaker than I'm likely to be able to figure out on my own. YMMV. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YeahDoIt Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Don't forget about reverb. Not every mixer has reverb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rodclement Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Meu amigo Paulista, A que marcas e modelos voce tem acesso ai em Sampa? Mais facil te ajudar sabendo as opcoes que voce tem disponivel. My friend, What brands and models do you have acess to in Brasil? It would be easier to help you knowing what options you have. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 A lot of singleduo's prefer the bose system and it makes sense for what they do, I'd try out one before purchasing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 If you were in the US (but you are not), the best deal I know of currently is the M-Audio GSR-12 powered two-way speaker (300 W) for $180 US plus shipping. That would leave you with money for a passive mixer, speaker stands, and some XLR cables. I personally have gone the powered speaker/passive mixer route. I think that I have a more scalable system that way. I can use a bigger or smaller mixer (depending on the number of input channels I need), and can add speakers without adding or matching amplifiers. I also can get better DSP built in to a powered speaker than I'm likely to be able to figure out on my own. YMMV. Mark C. I may go to the States next year to buy it. Things are extremely overpriced here. Just to give you an idea, when the jbl eon 210p was being sold for 500 at Amazon (unfortunaley it went up to almost 800), it was costing about 2250 at local stores in Brazil. I can pay my air ticket, hotel, rental car, have a vacation and buy the equipment for the that price! I like your reasoning... so, with a couple of these I can get 600W, right? Looks like a good deal! Where did you see that price? They are $400 at Amazon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 look for used gear....forget the Passports...inefficient loudspeakers and suspiciously over-spec'ed amp... we did this exercise a while back, and I think we figured out that you could find used decent powered speakers and a passive mixer in that range, but stands/sticks, mics, cables, will push you past the grand line. That's good to know, I'll keep that in mind! I was not considering, stands, mics and cables... just the PA system, maybe a mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Meu amigo Paulista,A que marcas e modelos voce tem acesso ai em Sampa? Mais facil te ajudar sabendo as opcoes que voce tem disponivel.My friend,What brands and models do you have acess to in Brasil? It would be easier to help you knowing what options you have.Rod Nice Portuguese! Actually I may go to the States next year to get these. Stores here have JBLs, Behringers, Fender's, you can find almost anything, but the price makes me laugh. Oh, man! I love the States! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Don't forget about reverb. Not every mixer has reverb. I'll keep that in mind, most modern ones do, though. Behringer specifically has a lot of digital audio effects available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rodclement Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Nice Portuguese! Actually I may go to the States next year to get these. Stores here have JBLs, Behringers, Fender's, you can find almost anything, but the price makes me laugh. Oh, man! I love the States! Well, if you have untill next year to buy the gear, save some more money and come ready to have fun! If you come to the NYC area, look me up and I can help you. Paulista ajuda Paulista! A nao ser que voce seja Palmeirense! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I may go to the States next year to buy it. Things are extremely overpriced here. Just to give you an idea, when the jbl eon 210p was being sold for 500 at Amazon (unfortunaley it went up to almost 800), it was costing about 2250 at local stores in Brazil. I can pay my air ticket, hotel, rental car, have a vacation and buy the equipment for the that price!I like your reasoning... so, with a couple of these I can get 600W, right? Looks like a good deal! Where did you see that price? They are $400 at Amazon! PSSL.com has the deal. They have been at "closeout" pricing at an even lower price, but they seem to be getting more from time to time. If you have a contact in the US to have them shipped to, you might consider buying a pair while they are still available. The 300 watt rating is on the internal amplifier. 250 W is for the low frequency, 50 W for the high. (About the right ratio, based on what I have learned about such things.) The GSR-12 does not get as loud or sound as good as a JBL PRX612M speaker, at least to my ears. Not too bad at all, for about 1/4 the price of the JBL. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Very good question Under a thousand dollars. That's do-able, but only if you want to sound like background music/Muzak. Realistically, for a bar-band type of PA,with enough power and dynamic-range to cover a noisy crowd of 200, you're looking at a minimum $4k. for a pair of 12" mains, a pair of compact subs, and a decent mixer.That will be marginal power too. Cables, mics, stands D.I.'s etc, will add much more to that price. If you add monitors, you're pushing double the price. http://audioeast.com/sales/aei-pa-package-6/ What are your electrical standards in Brazil? Most off-the-shelf stuff up here, will be 120v/60Hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 My references show that Brazil has a 120 volt, 60 hz (nominal) standard, and generally uses Edison type plugs. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 That's do-able, but only if you want to sound like background music/Muzak. Realistically, for a bar-band type of PA,with enough power and dynamic-range to cover a noisy crowd of 200, you're looking at a minimum $4k. for a pair of 12" mains, a pair of compact subs, and a decent mixer.That will be marginal power too. Cables, mics, stands D.I.'s etc, will add much more to that price. If you add monitors, you're pushing double the price.http://audioeast.com/sales/aei-pa-package-6/What are your electrical standards in Brazil? Most off-the-shelf stuff up here, will be 120v/60Hz Yes, we are "officially" at 110v/60Hz, but all 120V stuff work. I hear what you are saying. Someone suggested powered loudspeakers, so I can add/rent more when needed. I am close to a complete idiot on these matters, so I will have to ask... how do you keep adding more speakers? You have a couple of outputs from the mixer (R/L that can be configured mono), and a monitor out. How do you connect a couple of speakers for each output? And more than one speaker to the monitor out? How do you connect the subs? Should the mixer already have a sub out? Sorry to ask that... I will also do some research, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yes, we are "officially" at 110v/60Hz, but all 120V stuff work. I hear what you are saying. Someone suggested powered loudspeakers, so I can add/rent more when needed. I am close to a complete idiot on these matters, so I will have to ask... how do you keep adding more speakers? You have a couple of outputs from the mixer (R/L that can be configured mono), and a monitor out. How do you connect a couple of speakers for each output? And more than one speaker to the monitor out? How do you connect the subs? Should the mixer already have a sub out? Sorry to ask that... I will also do some research, thanks. Most powered speakers (of the type under discussion) have an XLR output jack, so additional speakers can be "daisy chained" together. (The out from speaker one drives the in on speaker two; the out on speaker two drives the in on speaker three, etc.) Subwoofers often have a crossover function which allow them to pass higher frequency content to the top speaker(s). Typically there is a switch to select whether you want to daisy chain to a matching speaker, or to high pass to a top. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Most powered speakers (of the type under discussion) have an XLR output jack, so additional speakers can be "daisy chained" together. (The out from speaker one drives the in on speaker two; the out on speaker two drives the in on speaker three, etc.) Subwoofers often have a crossover function which allow them to pass higher frequency content to the top speaker(s). Typically there is a switch to select whether you want to daisy chain to a matching speaker, or to high pass to a top. Mark C. Wow, thanks, that was enlightening. Yeah, I was looking at the picture of the back of the suggested loudspeaker and I saw the Xlr jack, I thought that was it, but wasn't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarsott Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Well, if you have untill next year to buy the gear, save some more money and come ready to have fun! If you come to the NYC area, look me up and I can help you. Paulista ajuda Paulista! A nao ser que voce seja Palmeirense! Rod Thanks Rod... vai Corinthians! I guess you root for Cosmos now that you are in the NYC area (Cosmos still exists, doesn't it? Last time I heard of Cosmos was when Pel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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