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  • Freen-Bean,

    The sound cards made by M-Audio can already bridge the software sequencer to the soundcard's control panel. So it's been done with some success. I know that the Tascam FW series has the same limitation as the Onyx. In fact the Tascam software mixer is much more basic than the Mackie.

    I don't know anything about programming, but I'm pretty certain that the onyx 400f's software could be updated to be better connected to a DAW.

    Tadpole

    Comment


    • So I did decide to go with the 400f over the traveler. I couldn't deny how great the 1640 sounds, and the 400f should sound only better with the better converters.

      I was a little nervous ordering this when my dealer said a couple came back defective. I hope Mackie has cleared up any production issues and I get a solid unit. Guess this is the risk I'm taking being an early adopter. I'm sure Mackie will take care of me if I have issues.

      Also a little nervous about the stability with Digital Performer, since I've had spotty performance in the past with the 1640... We'll see how it goes.

      I'll be sure to report here after it arrives and I've had time to play with it.

      Comment


      • I know the topic has been beaten to death, but I just wanted to agree and say I'm more interested in hearing about how this unit sounds and performs on it's own merits against similarly priced/featured units, not how it will perform with an external DA unit.

        I think comparing it to a firepod, motu, and some of the other units in this crowded market is a much more fair comparision. It's a stretch to compare it to a fireface since that's got twice the features at twice the cost.

        Comment


        • I decided to take the plunge on it too. What the hell. Hopefully I'll get to roll right into it with no problems, as I make half my money by recording and I cant afford problems to hang me up for 2 weeks, especially right now when I'm busy busy busy. I sold my Delta 1010 today and about the time the 400F shows up, I should be getting the check for the Delta. I'm all but postive that I'll be stepping up in sound quality. Driver performace will be another issue all together. The delta drivers are untouchable. Cross your fingers for me everyone.
          Paul

          Comment


          • Hey,

            Check out the spam Mackie emailed me!

            http://www.mackie.com/email/onyx400f/index.html

            This thread might get some serious traffic now!

            Comment


            • As a member of the 400f engineering team, I'd like to offer the following observations on the D/A "sound".

              The 400f has phase-accurate output across the entire spectrum. This is something that we, along with some of the converter companies, have been spearheading. Not to get too technical, but the D/A converters used in the 400f use FIR filters, which provide constant phase regardless of frequency. Some converter designs use IIR filters, which are faster and cheaper to implement, but induce phase shifts depending on frequency. It can be possible to compensate for these phase shifts in DSP, however this adds latency.

              This frequency dependent phase shift results (to our ears at least) in "fuzzy" sounds. Many people have become accustomed to fuzzy sound, and are surprised when they hear phase-aligned response, as it sounds brighter. Our opinion is that the D/A converter should reflect "truth", not a preferred sound. What good is mastering on sweet-sounding D/As when your mix won't translate to the masses?
              dernil
              Mackie Dude

              Comment


              • Dernil,

                Thanks for the info!

                tadpole

                Comment


                • Originally posted by dernil
                  As a member of the 400f engineering team, I'd like to offer the following observations on the D/A "sound".

                  The 400f has phase-accurate output across the entire spectrum. This is something that we, along with some of the converter companies, have been spearheading. Not to get too technical, but the D/A converters used in the 400f use FIR filters, which provide constant phase regardless of frequency. Some converter designs use IIR filters, which are faster and cheaper to implement, but induce phase shifts depending on frequency. It can be possible to compensate for these phase shifts in DSP, however this adds latency.

                  This frequency dependent phase shift results (to our ears at least) in "fuzzy" sounds. Many people have become accustomed to fuzzy sound, and are surprised when they hear phase-aligned response, as it sounds brighter. Our opinion is that the D/A converter should reflect "truth", not a preferred sound. What good is mastering on sweet-sounding D/As when your mix won't translate to the masses?


                  What good is 'phase-aligned' response when it it sounds worse?
                  With all due respect to Mackie...the D/A in the 400f ripped my ears apart in the top end.

                  It may be more 'accurate' in specs, but it is hard to use in the real world for some of us.

                  The reference material I used was all old standby discs that I have been using for years as references...Fleetwood Macs Rumours, Lyle Lovetts Joshua Judges Ruth and AC/DC Back in Black.

                  All of them were 'abnormally' bright and actually peircing on some.
                  Now I certainly believe your intent is right...but 'translating to the masses' is nonsense here. These D/A converters are just too bright period.
                  "Most of our energy goes into upholding our importance...If we were capable of losing some of that importance we would free our energy from trying to maintain the illusory idea of our grandeur... and we would provide ourselves with enough energy to catch a glimpse of the actual grandeur of the universe"...

                  Comment


                  • Please provide me the reference you are using to determine brightness (other hardware being tested against), including monitors being used and your 400f serial number. I would like to take this offline to address your issues.

                    Thanks!

                    dernil
                    dernil
                    Mackie Dude

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Anderton
                      Quick update: Sorry about the delay between posts. As some of you know I moved not too long ago, and I could only find a couple of my mics for testing!! So I'm frantically searching through boxes.

                      ...


                      Okay.

                      Now this is why we need Craig to do these reviews with a video podcast component.
                      .

                      music and social links | recent listening

                      Comment


                      • Uh, Oh....Rodney Gene has arrived, and he's bringing his GearSlutz post with him!


                        Hi Rodney, your review preceeds you on this forum. Your opinion is somewhat infamous here.

                        - Jim

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                        • Rodney Gene,

                          I have to say that you have brought some real drama with you as well!

                          I'm just picturing a guy with no ears listening to Stevie Nicks and cursing the onyx 400f. Drama.

                          Tadpole

                          Comment


                          • The 400f does sound a little bright on output, but it is still a nice box, I used a Imac g5 2.1ghz and used itunes to listen to about 2000 songs through Dynaudio BM5A's, as well as Tracktion2 sessions, the monitors are really accurate and sound awesome with even crap playing through them, I A/B'd the 400F with my other rig (digi 002 rack) and it was close sounding with the 400F being a tad bit more on the crispy side, so I still like the onyx 400F it works fine. I had a big knob but that thing seem to add some high end color as well, My HR824's had to be sold because they were destroying the high end in my ears and everyone else's, even with muddy 40's big band music!
                            maybe everyone at Mackie cranks their music so loud that they all lost the high end in their hearing.

                            Comment


                            • well...

                              Drama is drama and opinions are like... well you know, we all got em' and were all entitled to them.

                              Anyway, I took the time to hear this box for myself tonight at the local GC. Listened for a good while to music that I wrote, recorded and mixed. Played back through the same monitors I own.

                              Not really scientific, but as good as I could do in a pinch.

                              Sooo...

                              It sounded different for sure, but not at all in a bad way.

                              I would say that the sound reminds me of when I really do a good jod of cleaning the windows on my car. You know just squeaky clean and clear almost disorienting at first, but after a bit you get used to it and soon you see everything clearer which is very cool!!!

                              What I did not hear was overly "bright" or anything close to "grainy" nor did I hear "warm" or "fat". I just heard a really good and REALLY CLEAN and CLEAR portrayal of some music I know well.

                              I liked it alot, enough in fact that I will have one here tomorow.

                              Now if Dan can just crack the whip a bit and get those update/upgrades done life will be really good.

                              Hope this helps.

                              next time,
                              jfg

                              Comment


                              • <<I would say that the sound reminds me of when I really do a good jod of cleaning the windows on my car. You know just squeaky clean and clear almost disorienting at first, but after a bit you get used to it and soon you see everything clearer which is very cool!!!

                                What I did not hear was overly "bright" or anything close to "grainy" nor did I hear "warm" or "fat". I just heard a really good and REALLY CLEAN and CLEAR portrayal of some music I know well.>>

                                Same here. It's interesting that a lot of you are experiencing the same sort of sound I'm perceiving. The linear phase aspect certainly is helpful to know about, as I think it does explain some of the "transparency" I'm hearing (and apparently, others are too).

                                As to Rodney Gene's post, he hears what he hears and that should be respected, period. However, given that most people who've auditioned the 400F are hearing what I'm hearing, and he's hearing something else, I think it's a great idea that Mackie will investigate further. I would not at all rule out the possibility that he may have a unit with a defect, or have run into some failure mechanism which would be of tremendous value for Mackie to know about.

                                Maybe we'll have a repeat of what happened with the Sonar 5 Pro Review, where a bug was found and fixed, all within the space of the review.

                                And I'd like to thank all of you again for your participation, and also, props to Mackie for getting involved in something where the outcome is anything but predetermined. But that's what makes it interesting, eh?
                                Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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