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  • #16
    Jim mentioned putting the filters in the sidechain. The first image shows the "default" routing, with Input off (i.e., the Filter isn't the first stage after the output) and Dynamics Side Chain off. Note that in all these examples, the Dynamics section is post-EQ.

    The second image shows what happens if you enable the Input switch: The filter goes before the EQ.

    The third image shows Jim's scenario, where the filters go into the sidechain for the Dynamics processing.

    But there's more...
    Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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    • #17
      If you put the Dynamics pre-EQ instead of post-EQ as in the previous examples, the routing options change once more.

      The first image shows the "default" routing, with Input off and Dynamics Side Chain off.

      The second image shows what happens if you enable the Input switch: The filter goes before the Dynamics section, which goes before the EQ.

      The third image shows Dynamic Sidechain enabled for the filter. It now provides the sidechain signal for the Dynamics; the Dynamics section is followed by the EQ.

      And there are still more routing options...
      Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

      Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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      • #18
        So far, we've looked at routing options involving the Filter section. But there are also routing options involving the EQ if you enable Dynamic Sidechain within the EQ module.

        The first image shows the "default" routing for using EQ in the sidechain, with Input off, Filter Dynamics Side Chain off, and EQ Dyanmics Sidechain on. The routing is the same whether the Dynamics section is preo or post EQ, as the EQ stage only relates to sidechaining.

        The second image shows what happens if you enable the Input switch: The EQ section is post-Filter instead of pre-Filter.

        The third image shows what happens if you enable the Filter Dynamic Sidechain option: Now both the Filter and the EQ are part of the sidechain.

        Finally, the fourth image shows the most important part of the sidechain: The option to monitor the sidechain signal by itself. For example, if you want to have only the kick appear in the sidechain, as per Jim's example, you can monitor the sidechain signal and tweak the filters to isolate the kick as much as possible.

        And that takes care of the routing options in the Channel Strip, unless I've missed something!
        Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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        • #19
          All right--time to have some fun! We'll isolate just the kick using the sidechain, and set an outrageous amount of compression, so that every time the kick hits the compression goes insane and gives an ultra-squashed sound. Then we'll mix that with the original sound to get something not quite as anarchic as the compressed sound by itself, but something that's still pretty rude.

          The first audio example has a drum loop from the Discrete Drums library without any processing at all.

          The second audio example has the output of the sidechain monitor. The Filter and EQ sections are in the sidechain, and tweaked to really emphasize the kick.

          The third audio example shows what happens when you super-compress the drums with only the kick. Squash-o-rama! Granted this isn't all that musically useful (hmmmm...then again, maybe it is) but we can tame it.

          The fourth audio example mixes the original drum loop with the super-squashed loop. The end result is a pretty aggressive drum loop that retains some dynamics, courtesy of the original loop, but also folds in the squashed background to add some fatness and nastiness.
          Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

          Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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          • #20
            Say u have 32 channels in use with the ssl channel strip, and u find that the 4 band EQ is somewhat not enough, can u add 32 instances of the X-eq?
            What are the limitations of the X-EQ in combi with the channel strip amount of tracks/channels?

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            • #21
              Thanks for the review so far. I hope you'll end up going over the X-EQ, X-Comp, and the extra plugins =)

              With the NAMM announcement, I'm seriously looking at the new packages. I know you touched on this, but is the latency or processing power any different between an expanded Duende Mini and Duende PCIe?
              Cheers! [;]
              Mac Pro, Logic, Ableton, softsynths, hardsynths, controllers, and FX

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              • #22
                Duende has 32 channel processing slots.

                You can run 32 channel strips in mono
                or
                16 channel strips in stereo
                or
                16 channels in mono and 8 in stereo

                etc etc

                X-EQ also takes 1 DSP slot in mono or 2 in stereo, so you could run 16 mono channel strips plus 16 mono X-EQs

                Hope this answers the previous question

                I had a good chat with Craig at the NAMM show, and will be getting some more details up in the coming days once my jetlag subsides!
                Jim@SSL
                Head of Workstation Partner Products Business
                Oxford, UK

                Check the SSL XLogic blog at www.solidstatelogic.wordpress.com


                An honest poster

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                • #23
                  Hey, Anderton, great job on reviewing Mini-Duende! Thank you!

                  I actually have PCIe and it works fine now but only after a big fght with plugins authorizations (I have them all). It was a really nasty one and this problem somehow has gone by itself... for now at least, I guess. It has already happened once to me.

                  Anyway, just to say it's a pleasure to use Duende in every way, especially sonically speaking. X-Eq is a killer, Channel Strip is a good all around tool, Drumstrip is really really good integrated drumstrip, X-Comp: well, I haven't mastered this one yet, pretty dark horse for me. BusComp is perhaps the one that wouldn't meet my expectations, but can come handy. I guess for this particular purpose I still prefere my API 2500 (hardware).

                  Actually, I wanted to post about a possible workaround with Wavelab and realtime bouncing. I won't lie: I didn't do it because I have never needed to do this trick on purpose (to fool Wavelab) mainly because I'm mixing pug-ins and hardware in wavelab master section. Still not clear? Well, in Wavelab 6 one of the greatest function is to be able to integrate your external gear (I'm doing it with my SPL Tube Vitalizer for premasters). And what do you know, it is actually the only way to put the render function in realtime mode. Now, when you're rendering, you're actually running all the master section plugins in real-time and Wavelab is printing it in a file. All this, just by inserting the External Gear plug-ins under /ASIO and setting up the routing in connections.

                  So, my solution is, with some advanced routing of your asio (to hook up your digital out on a digital in) you actually don't transform your sound staying in digital domain. It's like using a "null" gear, i.e. just hooking up an AES OUT on an AES IN. If you can't route it internally, you can always do it phsically with a cable by creating a digital loop (just be careful )). And it's done. No fancy plugins (even if it can be handy, of course!). The only thing to remember is that AES works in 24 bit, so if you're in 32 bit you may want to dither it before or better, just put a hard brickwall limiter at 0 to prevent the overshoots. Wavelab will compensate for the lookahead delay. If you don't have AES IN/OUT, you solution can be a virtual cable app' though I've never used it personally.


                  I hope it can come handy to some who's looking for realtime printing under Wavelab.

                  Jim, big fun of you and your company. As SAE teacher, I can only advise to my guys to go for your brand!

                  sH

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                  • #24
                    Holy smackdown, you can get the PCIe card for $700 right now??? That is insane deal.
                    Play the music, not the instrument. Hone your craft, then your studio. Musicians need to get back to the basics. Stop buying gear and start buying old CD's. Time to start listening again. Technology will NEVER replace musical fundamentals. Don't be a technology slut.

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                    • #25
                      I'd also like to hear how stable Duende PCIe is with Cubase 4 and Fireface 800
                      Play the music, not the instrument. Hone your craft, then your studio. Musicians need to get back to the basics. Stop buying gear and start buying old CD's. Time to start listening again. Technology will NEVER replace musical fundamentals. Don't be a technology slut.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I'd also like to hear how stable Duende PCIe is with Cubase 4 and Fireface 800


                        I've used it with Cubase while on the same FireWire bus as the MR816csx, without problems so far. I'll see if I can "break" it as I continue with the MR816csx/CC121 Pro Review.
                        Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                        Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                        • #27
                          I wanted to post about a possible workaround with Wavelab and realtime bouncing. I won't lie: I didn't do it because I have never needed to do this trick on purpose (to fool Wavelab) mainly because I'm mixing pug-ins and hardware in wavelab master section. Still not clear? Well, in Wavelab 6 one of the greatest function is to be able to integrate your external gear (I'm doing it with my SPL Tube Vitalizer for premasters). And what do you know, it is actually the only way to put the render function in realtime mode. Now, when you're rendering, you're actually running all the master section plugins in real-time and Wavelab is printing it in a file. All this, just by inserting the External Gear plug-ins under /ASIO and setting up the routing in connections.

                          So, my solution is, with some advanced routing of your asio (to hook up your digital out on a digital in) you actually don't transform your sound staying in digital domain. It's like using a "null" gear, i.e. just hooking up an AES OUT on an AES IN.

                          sH


                          That's GREAT!! I liked Jim's suggestion of the VST plug-in, but your idea of doing a real-time bounce by going "outside the box" is a very universal solution. I had considered that but I didn't want to do the analog in/analog out conversions. I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't even think of using SPDIF or AES/EBU because two of the three interfaces I use the most don't have it. But of course, that's a way to do the transfer without loss.

                          I could probably figure out a way to do this internally with the Creamware SCOPE system and avoid going outside the box at all or using a plug-in.

                          Thanks for the tip!! Interaction is why I love Pro Reviews.
                          Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                          Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                          • #28
                            All right - now that my NAMM videos are over, it's time to dig further into Duende. Let's move on to the Vocalstrip, shown in the first image.

                            I'll start off with a negative: If money was a big issue, this plug-in would be last on my list. Not because it's not good, but because it has some stiff competition: the bundled Channel Strip we just discussed. I used the Channel Strip a lot for vocals prior to the appearance of the Vocalstrip, and had become very comfortable with which settings to tweak to get good results with my voice.

                            However, there's a reason why SSL made the Vocalstrip plug-in, and my guess is it's about speed - it takes a lot less time & effort to get a good vocal sound with Vocalstrip than with the more general-purpose Channel Strip. We'll zoom out and look at the elements that make up Vocalstrip, then examine the elements in more detail.

                            The De-Esser does what de-essers do, but the De-Ploser is a less common processor unique to Vocalstrip. It's sort of like a "smart lowpass filter" for getting rid of plosive sounds - very handy if your singer didn't use a pop filter!

                            There's a three-band EQ, with the curves and ranges optimized for voice. Although you can get similar sounds with the Channel Strip (or other EQs), it's very easy to dial in a good EQ setting relatively fast.

                            The Compander is fairly typical, but its drive control has some interesting uses. The metering, on the other hand, is again unique to the Vocalstrip. This is definitely something we'll need to cover in detail.

                            Also, note that you can change the order of the processors -- see the second image. The highlighted area in the lower right is where you change the order; click on a module, then use the arrow keys to move it left or right in the chain. This takes care of the "compression before EQ or EQ before compression?" question once and for all -- try them both, and see which one you like.

                            More to come...
                            Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                            Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                            • #29
                              I was looking for some vocals to process through the Vocalstrip, but gave up when I realized that with virtually all the music I've done, the vocals aren't "raw" but recorded with processing, or rendered to include processing. The kind of source material I'd want to use for applying Vocalstrip would be raw vocals compared to processing through Vocalstrip.

                              So, I think I'll work on a short song that can be used for demoing the Vocalstrip and some of the other plug-in effects - for example, the bus compressor on the overall mix, Drumstrip on the drums, X-Comp on guitar/bass, etc. I'll whip something up in the next day or two we can use in the review...stay tuned.
                              Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                              • #30
                                Well, it took a while to get back here...sorry, my travel schedule has been pretty hectic lately. Anyway, at long last, now you hear Vocalstrip at work, turning a really unappealing vocal into something, well, more appealing

                                But first...in the latest version of Sonar, I've been able to do the "fast bounce" thing with Duende Mini, which I had not been able to do before. This contradicts my previous findings that I could only get Duende to work with real-time bounces. I do know that Cakewalk has been doing a lot of optimization of their audio engine, and maybe this is one result.

                                Anyway, this vocal was recorded live through a Shure SM58 dynamic mic, and I wanted to use Vocalstrip to give it a more polished, "studio" quality. The first attached image shows the EQ settings I used. Basically, I added a bit of a boost in the upper mids to give more intelligibility, and cut away some of the low end to reduce the somewhat muffled, boomy quality you'll hear in the audio examples. I didn't use the midrange control; it's a bit too "peaky" for my tastes with most vocal material.

                                The vocal level varied quite a bit, and the second attached image shows the compressor settings. I went for minimum attack (0.1ms) to even things out. The ratio is 3.6:1, with a threshold of -9dB. I went for a soft knee response, 222ms of release, and also set the expander threshold at -48dB - I wasn't singing down there anyway, but I figured it could help get rid of any background noise.

                                Next, the audio examples.
                                Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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