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  • #91






    Quote Originally Posted by uberandout
    View Post

    I have developed my own vocal sound involving the thickener on V1, and wondered if the V2 has thickening as I have seen no mention of it? If so would it be in the mod or doubling section, and can it therefore be kicked in despite the preset being used? Is it possible to emulate the presets on V1 near enough? eg Can I get a close simulation for plate2 reverb with the V2?




    Yes, Double (which is what I think you're describing as "thickening") is a dedicated footswitch that's preset independent. Here's an image of the front panel, along with page 74 in the manual. So it's quite powerful:



    __





    There are actually three ways to thicken a texture: 1) Use the dedicated Double function; 2) Use the microMod section, which gives you the standard chorus/flanging options; 3) Dedicate harmony voices to unison, then employ humanizing functions. #1 is definitely the best way, and #2 is viable, too. (I list #3 as a more theoretical method, but you can see the flexibility here.)



    As to reverb, there are nine plate algorithms: Smooth Plate, Real Plate, Reflection Plate, Thin Plate, Bright Plate, Real Plate Short, Real Plate Long, Jazz Plate, and Quick Plate. Chances are, you'll be able to replicate your sound with one of those.








    Secondly, I experienced heavy feedback while using the V1 live in a band/small club setting, to the point where it was impossible to use any eq and little compression. This worries me with regards to the auto tone. Can the tone settings be manually overridden for say the eq, whilst still auto gating, compressing etc?



    Yes. You simply turn "Adaptive" to Off in the EQ tab. (Any of the four parameters can be individually set to Off or Adaptive.)








    And has the V2's propensity towards generating feedback been improved?



    I actually noticed that I had to be more careful about feedback once I had the VoiceLive 2 active as opposed to bypass. I don't know if it's been improved since the first generation, but it is one of my routines to more carefully position the speakers, etc., when setting up the unit for performance. Perhaps it's something inherent to vocal processing?








    Has the input/output situation now been simplified with auto gain, is there still a limiter and has the output overload been negated? Is there also now enough processing power to cover all eventualities?



    Input/Output is automated through the adaptive approach, and I assume the unit uses a limiter to prevent the "output overload" you describe. But the limiter is not user-configurable, or at least it's not called that. You can set the Shape and Compress parameters manually, or have them set via the automatic Adaptive method. This has been sufficient for every situation I've put the unit through, and as long as I set the unit up via a soundcheck with my vocalists, I have never experienced any failure of the unit to handle the range of singing styles and dynamics approaches I've thrown at it.
    Jon Chappell
    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
    Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

    Comment


    • #92






      Quote Originally Posted by uberandout
      View Post

      Has the input/output situation now been simplified with auto gain, is there still a limiter and has the output overload been negated? Is there also now enough processing power to cover all eventualities?




      Just to clarify, I'm not sure I understand this very specific question (see my italics added above), as I've never been aware of an issue with output overload or lack of processing power. Perhaps Tom Lang can weigh in on this.
      Jon Chappell
      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
      Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

      Comment


      • #93
        hi Jon



        Many thanks for you comprehensive reply, that's helped a great deal.



        The issue with output overload is that the original Voicelive had 2 red leds on top, one for input overload and one for output overload. The input level of the mic was naturally adjusted so as not to overload the input led and the limiter was linked to this.



        The output overload however was related to internal processing and could thus appear anytime. The manual told you to turn the level of the harmonies/fx down to cure the problem, but this didn't always work. However the issue was largely inaudible and sporadic.



        That is until the last week when out of the blue the red output overload is already permanently on on default program1 when I turn on the machine, and affects about half the 100 presets, now causing a horrible distorted sound on one/both channels. It stays on even if I turn all the levels (lead, harmony, fx, instrument) down/off and even if I unplug everything?!*



        Weirdly if I scroll up and down the presets it (sometimes) vanishes randomly and all presets return to normal. However this has been getting worse and at the last attempt I couldn't get rid of the problem.



        It seems like the machine has somehow overloaded internally and now is partially stuck like that... all very confusing, and that's why I would rather not have to deal with an output overload at all, just an input level as with most other equipment.



        Despite this apparently sad demise, I still love my machine and the concept hence the interest in an upgrade. (though it would be nice to fix my original somehow!).



        Voicelive 2 does sound incredible and a real re-design rather than an upgrade. I'm moist I admit.



        :P

        Comment


        • #94






          Quote Originally Posted by uberandout
          View Post

          hi Jon



          Many thanks for you comprehensive reply, that's helped a great deal.



          The issue with output overload is that the original Voicelive had 2 red leds on top, one for input overload and one for output overload. The input level of the mic was naturally adjusted so as not to overload the input led and the limiter was linked to this.



          The output overload however was related to internal processing and could thus appear anytime. The manual told you to turn the level of the harmonies/fx down to cure the problem, but this didn't always work. However the issue was largely inaudible and sporadic.



          That is until the last week when out of the blue the red output overload is already permanently on on default program1 when I turn on the machine, and affects about half the 100 presets, now causing a horrible distorted sound on one/both channels. It stays on even if I turn all the levels (lead, harmony, fx, instrument) down/off and even if I unplug everything?!*



          Weirdly if I scroll up and down the presets it (sometimes) vanishes randomly and all presets return to normal. However this has been getting worse and at the last attempt I couldn't get rid of the problem.



          It seems like the machine has somehow overloaded internally and now is partially stuck like that... all very confusing, and that's why I would rather not have to deal with an output overload at all, just an input level as with most other equipment.



          Despite this apparently sad demise, I still love my machine and the concept hence the interest in an upgrade. (though it would be nice to fix my original somehow!).



          Voicelive 2 does sound incredible and a real re-design rather than an upgrade. I'm moist I admit.



          :P




          Thanks for the detailed reply. The issue is much clearer now for your explanation.



          Two things are obvious:



          1) They've completely changed the VoiceLive 2 w/respect to "output overload." There's no indicator nor any mention in the manual of this. So they somehow have "designed this out" of the upgraded unit.



          2) You clearly have a malfunctioning unit that should be fixed. The original VoiceLive is still being sold new ($500) and used (Musician's Friend lists 2 used units for $399 and $439), so you should send yours back to TCE, get if fixed, and turn it over in favor of the VL2, if you're keen on the guitar-input harmony driver, plus other improvements. (You obviously have an appreciation for these more esoteric functions.) TC is a very good company w/regard to customer support, so you shouldn't have any problem.



          Since you brought up "guitar driven harmonies" as part of your incentive to consider upgrading, I think that alone is worth the effort. I point (again) to my Danny Boy recording, which is completely driven by my strumming guitar chords on the downbeat. I did this all in post but on the fly--taking the a cappella vocal and running it through the VL2, just switching presets after each line and playing different chords. Listen to verse 2, where I introduce more 7th and minor chord variations, for example. But the elegance of the interface, the increased feature set, and the overall power boost really make this a different animal than the original. Try to get your hands on one at your local music emporium, and page through the menus to get a taste of the expansion of the VL2 over the original.



          Good luck.
          Jon Chappell
          Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
          Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

          Comment


          • #95
            Hi Jon



            Thanks for your reply and information.



            I'm so glad the output overload has been sacked!



            I have written to TC and they have given me an address to send the unit for repair. I'm wondering how expensive/economical it is going to be however as I am obviously outside of the warranty period.



            As far as the VL2 is concerned, you have helped convince me it is the way forward and I am very excited about the prospect of fully utilizing all the programs thanks to guitar triggering. I will be acquiring one soon.



            best wishes



            Jay

            Comment


            • #96






              Quote Originally Posted by uberandout
              View Post

              I have written to TC and they have given me an address to send the unit for repair. I'm wondering how expensive/economical it is going to be however as I am obviously outside of the warranty period.




              Well, based on your inclinations to acquire the VL2, I'd say it's definitely a sound economical strategy to go the repair route. This way, you can sell a working unit to finance the new one. The fact that the original VL1 is still in stock and selling new should be reassuring (though it's no guarantee). Simply subtract the repair and shipping fee from the selling price, and that's the $ that you apply toward the purchase price of the VL2. Obviously, you factor in the repair estimate into the equation before deciding.



              Sure, there's risk, because you don't know what your final selling price will be--or whether your VL1 will sell at all, even after you've spent the money to repair it. But the VL2 is considerably more expensive than the VL1, which works in your favor, as it implies there are two markets for the VL series.



              These two acts (selling the VL1, acquiring the VL2) don't necessarily have to happen in series, either. But it's true, no one can predict if you'll sell the VL1, so yes, it's risky. What I usually do is just prepare for the worst: if I can't sell a piece of gear that I've upgraded/replaced, I know I can donate it to someone worthy. Karma's a pretty good consolation, when you can't get real lucre.
              Jon Chappell
              Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
              Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

              Comment


              • #97
                A few things of note with respect to the

                TC VoiceLive 2**

                TC VoiceWorks**

                DigiTech Vocalist Live 4**



                None of the three supply adequate phantom power for my AKG C420 condenser headset (distortion is evident on transients) so I need to use an outboard preamp tapped post trim/phantom - pre-fader/EQ.



                All three lose transparency, all three lose transient response, and all three inject artifacts when in series with all processing off. Yes even when phantom power and initial buffering is supplied externally thus line-in is used on the units.



                So they sound much better overall if run as a parallel effect...thus defeating a fair portion of the all-in-one benefit!



                So they sound much better if phantom power (and likely initial buffering too) is supplied outboard...thus again defeating a fair portion of the all-in-one benefit!



                How did I initially assess this?



                AKG C420 condenser headset mic

                AKG K 240 headphones (driven from the board's headphone amp not the unit's themselves)

                Mackie 1640 VLZ (or equivalent)



                You'd think by now they could easily implement a signal path that was virtually indistinguishable from the source when in serial bypass, but that's not the case with these three units. And funnily enough, I am not talking solely about a sterile studio environment because once I defined the testing procedure, I clearly noticed it with the following live setup.



                AKG C420 condenser headset mic

                Mackie 1640 VLZ mixer

                QSC PLX 1804 power amp

                EV ZX5 speakers



                Now whether the three unit's issues (when run dry in series) can be readily noticed by the average ear (simply by listening to my live setup for example) is open to conjecture...but I can say with certainty that when I am singing the degradation by direct comparison is obvious. I would argue that there is merit to the claim that certain deficiencies are most obvious while actually singing versus listening to the results after the fact. Having said all that however I still think many people could tell the difference after the fact as well as telling the difference while singing.



                And no it's not a question of the inevitable latency (it's always there when the units are in series - even with all effects off) nor was there any mixing of the original signal with the unit's dry signal, so phase cancellation was not a factor.



                ** I own both the TC VoiceWorks, and the DigiTech Vocalist Live 4 and thoroughly tested the TC VoiceLive 2.



                Comments welcome.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Jon or Tom or anyone!!!!



                  I would love to read a concise overview of how the Harmony G stacks up to the Voice Live 2.



                  Is the Voice Live 2 TOO DIFFICULT to master for people who are not savvy in all this "technical" talk????



                  Also, as "gmhuber" cautions in his You Tube video of the VL 2-- is there a problem with using the VL 2 to record?? According to "gmhuber," TC Helicon itself admits that there is a "bug" to be fixed!!!!!





                  Karl

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    The Harmony G is inferior to Voice Live 2.

                    The Voice Live 2 is easy to use for neophytes.

                    It's no problem to record using the Voice Live 2.

                    To fully use any harmonizer "savvy in all this technical talk" is of benefit - knowledge will set you free.

                    Comment


                    • Can you help me out with EQ on the Live 2? i do have the Voice Works Plus and there is on option to Eq the lead. can i do the same with this machine? if yes how do i do it?

                      Thanks

                      Comment


                      • Do you not have the manual?

                        Comment








                        • Quote Originally Posted by Chumly
                          View Post

                          Do you not have the manual?




                          I do have the manual , the problem with the manual is that its very limited in details and i can not find this future there,

                          if you can hekp me with this i would apriciate it,

                          Thanks

                          Comment








                          • Quote Originally Posted by joe1
                            View Post

                            Can you help me out with EQ on the Live 2? i do have the Voice Works Plus and there is on option to Eq the lead. can i do the same with this machine? if yes how do i do it?

                            Thanks




                            Yes, you can EQ the lead, with precise parameters for low/high freq. and gain, plus a parametric band w/gain, freq., and width. Access it by hitting TONE and selecting the EQ tab.



                            This is clearly described on p. 45 of the manual (see the link in post #9 of this thread.
                            Jon Chappell
                            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                            Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                            Comment








                            • Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
                              View Post

                              Yes, you can EQ the lead, with precise parameters for low/high freq. and gain, plus a parametric band w/gain, freq., and width. Access it by hitting TONE and selecting the EQ tab.



                              This is clearly described on p. 45 of the manual (see the link in post #9 of this thread.




                              Thanks very much jon

                              i didn't know about the online manual, all i got with the machine was a short basic Manual, thanks for directing me there

                              Joe

                              Comment








                              • Quote Originally Posted by joe1
                                View Post

                                Thanks very much jon

                                i didn't know about the online manual, all i got with the machine was a short basic Manual, thanks for directing me there

                                Joe




                                This is a good point, and one that's caused confusion for a couple of VL2 owners (myself included).



                                The manual that ships with the unit is a short quick-start manual. The detailed manual is available only through the online/pdf version.



                                It bears repeating, so here's the link to the pdf manual.



                                And to reiterate for all those reading here, in any powerful piece of gear, you should download the manual to see how its features explained in full. This manual is not as good as some others I've seen, in that it doesn't show you graphic representations of the menus, nor does it list, for example, all 30 guitar reverb programs. But it certainly bears close study.
                                Jon Chappell
                                Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                                Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                                Comment













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