TC-Helicon VoiceLive 2 Vocal Harmony and Effects Processor

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Chumly

With the TC Helicon It's odd there is no (obvious) way to mute the "Music Playback" source from the output. You'd think that would be highly desirable function in a solo act using MIDI triggered Rom'plers.

 

A good point, and let's try to get Tom to weigh in specifically on this issue. A work-around would be to input the Aux source material through the Guitar Input (since you wouldn't be using both the guitar and aux inputs simultaneously), where the Mute function is readily accessible.

[Chumly]

Hi Jon,

OK, but that's based on the assumption the guitar input uses the same detection parameters as does the aux input. However given that the aux input can have much more complexity than the guitar input, I wonder if this is the case?

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Chumly

Hi Jon,

OK, but that's based on the assumption the guitar input uses the same detection parameters as does the aux input. However given that the aux input can have much more complexity than the guitar input, I wonder if this is the case?

 

Right. For example, expecting more "full frequency range" info from the Aux In, maybe the VoiceLive 2 has filters (of the high- and low-pass variety) in the Aux In detection circuitry only, to try to eliminate the non-pitch information (high-end cymbal crashes, subsonic kick drums, etc.) from gumming up the works, in addition to the obvious differences in optimizing the different signal types (hi-Z guitar vs. line level). Again, a good question, and one that's not covered in the manual. For this, we really need Tom, who may himself have to consult the TC-Helicon engineers.

And just for fun--and to get really hypothetical--consider this: What if you had an mp3 of a rhythm guitar playing through the Aux In? Would that produce better or worse results than an actual guitar playing the same part in the Guitar In jack?

[Chumly]

Excellent; all we need do now is await His Master's Voice for the apropos answer!

[Sonic_Liberator]

Hello,

I’m into acoustic finger picking styles that combine classical, folk, blues and jazz harmonies.

I’m curious of how efficient VoiceLive 2 at tracking finger picking harmonies with lots of passing notes, combined chords etc, etc?

Thank you

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Sonic_Liberator

I’m into acoustic finger picking styles that combine classical, folk, blues and jazz harmonies. I’m curious of how efficient VoiceLive 2 at tracking finger picking harmonies with lots of passing notes, combined chords etc, etc?

 

It's not really designed for that. The VoiceLive 2 works by applying harmonies to a monophonic (single pitched) line, such as a lead vocal, horn (sax, trumpet), or even single-note lead guitar. But not fingerpicking passages and already-harmonized note clusters.

[Jon Chappell]

I'm getting quite a lot of PMs asking about basic functionality of the VoiceLive 2. Sometimes posts get lost in the shuffle, so here's a quote of one of the most important posts.

Read the text and listen to the link of "Danny Boy" below. Discuss.

 

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

I received a P.M. asking me to lay naked the VoiceLive 2's harmony processor--without fancy effects or a busy mix, or anything to obscure the quality of the harmonies.

I thought it was a pretty reasonable request, so here's what I did: I took a slow a cappella ballad (the Irish song Danny Boy, sung by a male tenor) and just ran the solo vocal through the unit, switching presets. The only prep work I did was to set the levels. But there are no effects, other than the onboard reverb. Nothing was added in post (i.e., between recording and converting to an mp3).

The results were stellar, as you can hear for yourself. In the mp3 file below, you can hear the first phrase ("Oh Danny Boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling") in front, as it sounds as I recorded it (with the VoiceLive 2 in bypass mode). This is followed by the entire song (with the first line repeated) with different presets activated on the different phrases.

Here's how it broke down.

Code:

(Bypass):            Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes are calling
 

Doubling:            Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes are calling

Unison Choir:        From glen to glen and down the mountainside

Harmony Above:       The summer's gone and all the roses falling

                    'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide

Harmony Above/Below: But come ye back when summer's in the meadow

                     Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow

Full Choir Harmony: 'Tis I'll be here in sunshine or in shadow

                     Oh Danny Boy, Oh Danny Boy, I love you so.

Danny Boy.mp3

For the second verse, I started with a high harmony and went to full choir.

To supply the harmonies, I simply brushed chords on the downbeats--something any moderately competent guitarist could do.

 

[valleyguy]

Other than the the auto tune, what does the Voicelive 2 have that the VoiceTone Harmony-G does not have. It is less than half the price.

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by valleyguy

Other than the the auto tune, what does the Voicelive 2 have that the VoiceTone Harmony-G does not have. It is less than half the price.

 

The Harmony-G is actually less than one quarter of the price of the VoiceLive2 ($200 vs. $900). But there's simply no comparison, though the HG is a good unit for $200. Compare the features, and then download the respective manuals and read through them. You'll see that the VoiceLive 2 is a deeper, more fully featured unit. You may be fine with the $200 HG, but it's a very different animal than the VoiceLive 2.

[valleyguy]

Thanks for the poop, Jon. Too bad there isn't an in-between model. I really don't need the auto tune, and I imagine that adds the most cost to the VoiceLive 2.

Always a problem with GAS, how much money to spend......

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by valleyguy

Thanks for the poop, Jon. Too bad there isn't an in-between model. I really don't need the auto tune, and I imagine that adds the most cost to the VoiceLive 2.

Always a problem with GAS, how much money to spend......

 

For me, the auto-tune function is one of the best features. It's the implementation of subtle but powerful features like this that really makes the VoiceLive 2 sound realistic--and it ensures general "in-tuneness" and a glitch-free performance. You really need this feature for more complex harmonies--meaning, really, anything beyond a simple third-above harmony.

[Jon Chappell]

I used the VoiceLive 2 over the weekend at a gig where a bass player and myself both sang and played cover tunes of standards and "good country" (the client's request).

Two songs that turned heads were the Eagles' "Take It Easy" and Alison Krauss's version of the Don Schlitz/Paul Overstreet song "When You Say Nothing at All." They were particularly well-suited to the VoiceLive 2 treatment, and I think it's because the harmony sections (the choruses, in this case), are both fairly static, as far as melodic movement.

In the second verse of "Take It Easy," I used the third-above harmony for the first part: "Well, I'm a-standin' on a corner in Winslow, Arizona, such a fine sight to see. It's a girl my Lord, in a flatbed Ford slowin' down to take a look at me." And then the full three-part treatment for the chorus that immediately follows.

So I had three button presses to give me all I need: bypass, third-above, three-part. This is a really good template that I think I'll use on my own arrangements.

[tradivoro1]

Hi, I'm kinda of late to the party, but I'll ask a comparison question... It appears that before this unit, voicelive 2, there was a voicelive 1... So, is there really any magnificent difference between the 2 as far as sound is concerned...

And also, someone else asked this question, but I don't think it was interpreted right... if you main backing on guitar is playing intricate finger picking, are the chords that you play fingerpicking going to be picked up by the unit as harmony to trigger the vocal harmony???

any info appreciated, thanks...

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by tradivoro1

Hi, I'm kinda of late to the party, but I'll ask a comparison question... It appears that before this unit, voicelive 2, there was a voicelive 1... So, is there really any magnificent difference between the 2 as far as sound is concerned...

 

Certainly the added features that include increased polyphony (8 voices vs. 4), adaptive correction, and improved effects blocks directly improve on the original sound. This is to ignore for a moment the other improvements in interface design and the inclusion of the onboard wizard. The original VoiceLive is still in stock in many retail outlets and is cheaper, so I think it's a good question. But I suspect the VoiceLive 2 has a later generation of processors and rewritten algorithms. (I'll try to get Tom Lang to confirm this.) And if this is so, it tips the scales.

 

And also, someone else asked this question, but I don't think it was interpreted right... if you main backing on guitar is playing intricate finger picking, are the chords that you play fingerpicking going to be picked up by the unit as harmony to trigger the vocal harmony??? any info appreciated, thanks...

 

You're right; I believe I did misunderstand the question when I answered it the first time. (I thought the poster was trying to harmonize the guitar part.) Fingerpicking is a snap for the VoiceLive 2. I regularly perform Paul Simon's "The Boxer" and Crosby, Stills, and Nash's "Helplessly Hoping," and the unit nails these harmonies quickly and accurately.

[tradivoro1]

Thanks Jon, appreciate the reply on the fingerpicking and other aspects of the unit... Yes, I guess my main concern about the older unit is the sound of the voice reproduction algorithms when harmonizing in a live setting...

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by tradivoro1

Thanks Jon, appreciate the reply on the fingerpicking and other aspects of the unit... Yes, I guess my main concern about the older unit is the sound of the voice reproduction algorithms when harmonizing in a live setting...

 

Okay, let's see if our TC-Helicon contact, Tom Lang, can dig up the answer. (It's not provided in the manual or any of the promotional information.)

Stay tuned!

[Tom Lang]

To answer the question regarding the sonic difference between VoiceLive "classic" and VoiceLive 2, I guess that can be answered with a resounding "it depends". If you sing one note and have both harmony processors sing a single harmony with no reverb, tone, or humanization etc turned on, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. If you use fixed key and scale harmony the difference, again, may not be discernable.

It's when you plug your guitar in so that it guides harmonies that the difference becomes striking. In VoiceLive "classic" The harmony voices will simply not follow your chord changes. Also, when you turn the tone and reverb on and play a few songs while experimenting with different arrangements of harmony and the other new goodies that VoiceLive 2 brings that the difference becomes apparent. When you start editing, building step chains and generally start having fun with turning effects on and off within the preset in performance, you'll appreciate the other differences.

You can still make great music with the original - I did for several years - and the price is attractive for sure. The best thing is to try and get them in a room together and see what's best for you.

Regarding finger picking, it works fine.

[Tom Lang]

Here's another VoiceLive 2 note with observations from a rehearsal last night. Our duo, the Acousticats was rehearsing tunes in my studio. We both sing and play amplified acoustic guitars at gigs (and we use a drum machine to make the dancers crazy) but when rehearsing it's great to just use our unamplified voices and the guitars. The guitars especially sound much better without the pickups.

To get back to the VoiceLive 2 thread, I still need to test and edit presets for harmony in rehearsal but don't want to overpower April, my duo partner and main singer by having both my lead voice and the harmonies come through a PA. I had a little VoiceSolo (TC-Helicon's powered monitor) hooked up to VoiceLive 2 with my lead voice and reverb etc. turned off so that when I engaged VoiceLive 2, it sounded like someone else had chimed in in the room. For those intimate, acoustic jams, this is a fantastic technique. Of course, if you have a roomful of great singers you can gently put VoiceLive 2 back in its case!

At one point I was singing the lead part in Nowhere Man by the Beatles with a single harmony below me and April singing the upper harmony. Huge! When that "(Amaj) making all his (Am) nowhere plans ..." line hits, it sure is nice to have the harmony following the guitar.

[tradivoro1]

Tom, thanks very much for your answer, I still just want to clarify something that's not clear to me... It appears that what you're saying is that if you're using Voicelive classic strictly through midi, e.g., a keyboard or laptop input putting in chords and musical data, the machine works fine... However, it doesn't work so hot with a guitar driving the harmonic changes?

 

Originally Posted by Tom Lang

To answer the question regarding the sonic difference between VoiceLive "classic" and VoiceLive 2, I guess that can be answered with a resounding "it depends". If you sing one note and have both harmony processors sing a single harmony with no reverb, tone, or humanization etc turned on, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. If you use fixed key and scale harmony the difference, again, may not be discernable.

It's when you plug your guitar in so that it guides harmonies that the difference becomes striking. In VoiceLive "classic" The harmony voices will simply not follow your chord changes. Also, when you turn the tone and reverb on and play a few songs while experimenting with different arrangements of harmony and the other new goodies that VoiceLive 2 brings that the difference becomes apparent. When you start editing, building step chains and generally start having fun with turning effects on and off within the preset in performance, you'll appreciate the other differences.

You can still make great music with the original - I did for several years - and the price is attractive for sure. The best thing is to try and get them in a room together and see what's best for you.

Regarding finger picking, it works fine.

 

[Tom Lang]

 

Originally Posted by tradivoro1

Tom, thanks very much for your answer, I still just want to clarify something that's not clear to me... It appears that what you're saying is that if you're using Voicelive classic strictly through midi, e.g., a keyboard or laptop input putting in chords and musical data, the machine works fine... However, it doesn't work so hot with a guitar driving the harmonic changes?

 

I didn't really intend this to mean MIDI or laptop control, just that, if you compare a "naked" harmony voice on each unit -however they're controlled- the difference is tough to hear.

VoiceLive classic doesn't work at all with a guitar driving changes - it doesn't have that feature built in.

[tradivoro1]

 

Originally Posted by Tom Lang

I didn't really intend this to mean MIDI or laptop control, just that, if you compare a "naked" harmony voice on each unit -however they're controlled- the difference is tough to hear.

VoiceLive classic doesn't work at all with a guitar driving changes - it doesn't have that feature built in.

 

I see, no guitar at all.... Well, that's good to know... One of the reasons I was attracted to the tc helicon units, the newer and the older, is because there is a midi input and output in the unit, as opposed to the competitor's which only have a guitar input...

So, that's good to know that it's only with this incarnation of the top model of tc helicon harmony products, it can be driven by a guitar as well as midi...

[gc24]

I am also late for the party. I ahave been away from this site for awhile and have owned the Digitech 4 and Pro, have the Harmony G and had the Voice Live 2 when it first came out, but sent it back as I didn't like the sounds that it produced. Did I miss something here?

[Jon Chappell]

This weekend, I worked with a female vocalist who wanted to hear how some of her songs would sound with harmony. This was a perfect opportunity for having someone else (other than me, because I know the unit pretty well now) try out the VoiceLive 2.

Initially she was thrown by the unit, because it tracks your every move. I told her to "straighten out" the parts she wanted harmony on, and that did the trick. She reduced the scoops, fall-offs, and flourishes, and the VoiceLive 2 not only sounded better, the song actually sounded better. I thought, "What if we could give this to the American-Idol types who over-decorate and over-stylize the melody?" It might teach people to, you know, "just sing the dang song."

In any event, we tried another exercise that sort of captured the best of both worlds--her flourishes but with stable harmony. To accomplish this, I sang her lead parts, but harmonized them as if I were a female vocalist singing an octave higher. This required me to octave-displace the harmony notes (women sing an octave higher than men). Then we sang together, her solo, me through the VoiceLive 2. I muted my lead vocal, so that only the harmonies came through the P.A. I ended up moving across the room, because she could hear my lead acoustically, and I wanted her to have the full effect.

It worked. She still had the freedom to add flourishes and trills as inspiration dictated, but without making the harmonies sound artificially locked-step to the lead.

This was something new to me, too. Normally, when I sing with a female lead, I go into the Alison Krauss or Highway 101 mode: One female and two males singing harmony. But in this case, my job was to clone the lead singer.

[dug dog]

Hmmm.... very interesting.

[Chumly]

I have sung unison and muted my main vocal to obtain the harmonies live in real time with many singers, many different harmony units, over a number of years.