Members mobobog Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 Wich one do you use? I need it to have line level out, to use it with ETF software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 You mean a hand held SPL Meter? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 11, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2006 SPL meter? The Radio Shack analog one. It's cheap, runs forever, and it says Radio Shack on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mobobog Posted December 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 Yes Handheld... I am looking the RS Lee... i fact i was going to ask what would be better, the digital one or the analog... i wanted to know if there is a better option for the money but even acoustisoft and ethan winer recommend it. Anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mobobog Posted December 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 In radio shack there is no mention of the digital one having ouputs, i wonder if it really doesnt have them or they didnt put it on the specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 11, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2006 I've actually heard people recommend against the digital one. It's digital in it's meter display but I don't think there's any digital output involved. I can't see what it would output anyway. For ETF, all you're trying to do is get an accuate SPL readings in your room so the various measurements are using an even playing field. Really, the Radio Shack is all you need for this... ...it's also nice to keep at you mix spot to keep your mixing SPL consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mobobog Posted December 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 ok thanks... Ive just ordered the analog one! What SPL do you aim when mixing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 RS here, I have an analog one I use live and a digital in the studio. They are basically idential except one has an LCD readout and one an analog meter. I generally mix in the 70dbA range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 IMHO, you are a lot better off buying an omni small diaphragm condenser mic to use with ETF. The mic in the RS SPL meter is not flat over frequency - - not even close. But they are great if you are monitoring SPL level - - like setting a known level for mixing, or seeing if the SPL of a kick drum exceeds the rating for the mic you want to use on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted December 11, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2006 Radio Shack one is pretty inaccurate, we use B&K 2250 SPL meters at work. Unfortunately, they're $9,000 each. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted December 11, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2006 Originally posted by philbo The mic in the RS SPL meter is not flat over frequency - - not even close. But they are great if you are monitoring SPL level - - like setting a known level for mixing, or seeing if the SPL of a kick drum exceeds the rating for the mic you want to use on it. How can both these statements be true? Your first statement is painfully true, this is a cheap meter. Since the mike is bad, the SPL level isn't very accurate. I guess you mean it's close enough for these applications? If so, I'd agree. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 11, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2006 I didn't think he wanted to use the mic as his test mic... If that's the case then I would assume it's not up for the job, though I'm aware that the ETF manual says you can use it. As far as offering insight into roughly what level you're putting out in your room for any given measurement, I'm sure it's more than fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted December 13, 2006 Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Originally posted by MrKnobs How can both these statements be true? Your first statement is painfully true, this is a cheap meter. Since the mike is bad, the SPL level isn't very accurate. I guess you mean it's close enough for these applications? If so, I'd agree. Terry D. This is because the SPL meter is calibrated to measure A, B or C weighted audio spectrum. Only the C-weighting is even close to flat, and even it is -10 dB at the 20K and 15 Hz ends. Experiment with posting an image: If it doesn't work, here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mobobog Posted December 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Originally posted by MrKnobs Radio Shack one is pretty inaccurate, we use B&K 2250 SPL meters at work. Unfortunately, they're $9,000 each. Terry D. $9000 for a spl meter jajajajajaja much (a lot more) than i have in my whole studio! well as i understand the RS meter is more than fine to use with etf for the low range... efen the acoustisoft site says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mobobog Posted December 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 RS here, I have an analog one I use live and a digital in the studio. They are basically idential except one has an LCD readout and one an analog meter. I generally mix in the 70dbA range. any reason why you use one for one application and the other for other application... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted December 14, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Originally posted by philbo The mic in the RS SPL meter is not flat over frequency - - not even close. It's actually remarkably good. I had a giveaway correction table that some manufacturer published. I didn't bother to attach it to the meter since it didn't seem to be far enough off flat to worry about. But here's a link to a correction table that's probably the same as what I have around somewhere. http://www.danmarx.org/audioinnovation/rsmeter.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted December 14, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 14, 2006 Originally posted by MikeRivers It's actually remarkably good. I had a giveaway correction table that some manufacturer published. I didn't bother to attach it to the meter since it didn't seem to be far enough off flat to worry about. But here's a link to a correction table that's probably the same as what I have around somewhere. http://www.danmarx.org/audioinnovation/rsmeter.html Yep, that's the subjective part of it. 2dB down at 4kHz and 2dB up at 100Hz would be considered horrendous in the measurement world. Probably OK for the home audio person. Thanks for posting the link, I was planning to take my own RS meter to the anechoic chamber here at the uni and run these numbers out myself. Table from the link follows: 10hz........+20db12.5hz.....+16.5db16hz........+11.5db20hz........+7.5db25hz........+5db31.5hz.....+3db40hz........+2.5db50hz........+1.5db63hz........+1.5db80hz........+1.5db100hz......+2db125hz......+.5db160hz......-.5db200hz......-.5db250hz......+.5db315hz......-.5db400hz......0db500hz......-.5db630hz......0db800hz......0db1k...........0db1.25k......0db1.6k........-.5db2k...........-1.5db2.5k........-1.5db3.15k......-1.5db4k...........-2db5k...........-2db6.3k........-2db8k...........-2db10k.........-1db12.5k......+.5db16k.........0db20k.........+1db Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted December 15, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 Originally posted by MrKnobs Yep, that's the subjective part of it. 2dB down at 4kHz and 2dB up at 100Hz would be considered horrendous in the measurement world. Probably OK for the home audio person. Depends on whose measurement world you're talking about. If I was designing a loudspeaker, I'd probably want a meter that's more accurate than this. But you won't find a room that's anywhere near that flat, unless it was designed and build by someone who could (and should) afford a meter that does more than the Radio Shack SPL meter. What's significant about its inaccuracy is in the area below 40 Hz. If you were trying to calibrate a subwoofer installation with it, it's probalby worth applying the corrections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted December 15, 2006 Members Share Posted December 15, 2006 Originally posted by mobobog any reason why you use one for one application and the other for other application... I have one of each, and I like the analog meter for live, as I can see it peripherally easy, while the digital one is more an occasional look reference. The analog one is far more visual, with it's white backround against the meter needle, it's instantly obvious if you're too loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mobobog Posted December 15, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 15, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 I have one of each, and I like the analog meter for live, as I can see it peripherally easy, while the digital one is more an occasional look reference. The analog one is far more visual, with it's white backround against the meter needle, it's instantly obvious if you're too loud. What level do you target live? in the studio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted December 15, 2006 Members Share Posted December 15, 2006 Wow, those numbers are much better than I had remembered. I guess my memory might not be what it used to be - - I stand corrected.... Sorry for my misleading conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted December 16, 2006 Members Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by mobobog What level do you target live? in the studio? In the studio I stay in the 65-70dbA range. Live depends on the genre. For rock, 90-95dbA at the console. For folk, jazz, theatre etc., 80-85dbA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted December 16, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by philbo Wow, those numbers are much better than I had remembered. I guess my memory might not be what it used to be - - I stand corrected....Sorry for my misleading conclusions. No, you're not wrong. There is also the issue that the RS meters are never calibrated again after the initial factory setting, which is pretty sloppy. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted December 16, 2006 Members Share Posted December 16, 2006 Thanks Mr. Knobs - - maybe Alzheimers is not settling in after all... I usually mix at 80 to 84 dB SPL = -10 dB FS (measured using pink noise as the reference signal), depending on the music and it's dynamics. Most of the work is done at a much lower level (50 - 65 dB SPL), because the ear can detect finer increments in level there. But the final 5 or 6 listens, to see if the mix translates well over level, is generally done at the 84 dB level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted December 16, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by philbo Thanks Mr. Knobs - - maybe Alzheimers is not settling in after all... I usually mix at 80 to 84 dB SPL = -10 dB FS (measured using pink noise as the reference signal), depending on the music and it's dynamics. Most of the work is done at a much lower level (50 - 65 dB SPL), because the ear can detect finer increments in level there. But the final 5 or 6 listens, to see if the mix translates well over level, is generally done at the 84 dB level. I often wonder at my day job (which involves measuring noise) why we use the A weighting curve. A weighting corresponds to the 40 Phon contour on the Fletcher Munson curve, which in turns corresponds to an approximately 40dB 1kHz center. Whether listening to loud music or measuring highway noise, this is far too low an equal loudness contour to be meaningful. It would be better to use B, C, or D weighting (in my work), for example. Good discussion of this HERE. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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