Members ViLo Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/products/product.asp?PID=431 Looks very Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steveg Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 I have Vegas and an older Sound Forge. Previously Vegas was the multitrack software, I am wondering if Sound Forge has all of the Vegas multi-track or just some??!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 When Sony bought Sonic Foundry they made the seemingly quite reasonable offer for me to u.g. from SF5 to SF8 -- and threw in the XP version of CD-Architect -- which I'd been fairly annoyed with Sonic Foundry for essentially abandoning for what I believe was a couple of years -- instead of coming out with an XP-ready update at the time of XP's long planned release. (And THEN they initially wanted something like $180 for an 'update' to a $300 program!) I barely used SF anymore, so I was mostly interested in getting CD-Architect in Sony's seemingly quite decent offer. Unfortunately, I could never get Sony's CD-Arch to work properly, and when I contacted their "support" (during the, as I recall, "generous" 30 day support period) all I got was was a reprint of a FAQ from somewhere. Worthless. Meanwhile... all my OTHER burners worked fine (though, of course, they didn't have all the PQ code features, etc, as even the old CD-Arch.) Oh yeah... and I could never get SF to work properly with my MOTU 828mkII -- only with the built in soundcard. Sony = losers. In my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steveg Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Funny, because I had quite a different experience with Vegas and Sound Forge, they work perfectly and SONY support was great- go figure!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yeah... I know. Some folks love them. And I did once, a long time ago. They were the first tech company I ever fell in love with. My first "serious" (plug-in) tape recorder was a Sony. My first overdub ever was on a Sony. 1964. My first stereo tape recorder was a Sony -- I saved for a year and a half in high school for it. Adjusted for inflation, possibly the most expensive cassette deck I ever bought was a Sony, in the mid-80s... and, in fact, that's where it started going south. It was a piece of crap. The sound was bad from the word go and it deteriorated rapidly. It was the most expensive cassette deck ever for me -- and it was also the worst, even compared to the $60 specials I got a stack of to do quickie dubs. Since then, though I keep ending up with Sony products (they're hard to avoid at a certain point) I can only think of two that weren't some kind of disappointment (a cheapo tape walkman toward the end of that product cycle -- and a stereo mic I got to use with my non-Sony MiniDisk -- a horrid medium, btw -- but the mic's okay... $90 for a cheapo stereo electret.) When I bought my latest (and presumably last) VCR a couple years ago I reluctantly bought a Sony because the selection was limited and there were a bunch of positive user reviews. But I should have been tipped off by more than a couple of them that said, I always buy Sony. The picture quality was inferior to the Panasonic I bought in 1989. So much for progress. I'm always, in fact, running into people who always buy Sony. Now, I have to say, when I bought my current TV back in '92 or '93, the best picture in the big line up of sets was a Sony, but it was twice as much as mine and one of my always-buys-Sony buddies had just had his Trinitron repaired for the third time. He had thousands in this thing. (It had a nice picture, I gotta admit. Classic Trinitron. Don't make 'em like that anymore... but it was only good for about 3-4 years a tube.) A few years back I mentioned that to this guy and he said, well, you would have liked the Sony twice as much. And I said, and repaired it three times as often. He got kinda miffed and said, Man, I always buy Sony's and they're great! I've had 3 Sony TVs in the last 15 years! And I said... funny you should say that... 'cause the Hitachi TV I'd just replaced was bought in 1973 (my dad bought it when he and my mom split), still has a great picture and has never been repaired (it was then about 2001 and the set was almost 30 years. It was just a 19", had no remote or even AV input -- but hook a DVD player up to the RF jack and it looked great. I hated to give it away when I moved in 2003. So, my old Hitachi was 30 years old and had never been repaired while this guy had three Sony sets in half as long. But, hell, he loved Sony and always bought Sony. I loved Sony once. And maybe, one of these days, I'll have learned my lesson. (Did I mention the $30 consumer Sony headphones I bought last year are not only really crappy sounding -- far inferior to the old and Koss $15 jobs they were supposed to replace (I decided to put up with flaking earfoam covers instead) AND they are absolutely the least comfortable headphones I've experienced since my 8th grade Spanish lab?) If it sounds like I'm bitter... you know how it is... when your first love goes bad ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spokenward Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 I started using SF with version 3. It was my main tool for years. In version 8 they made a change that made the program absolutely infuriating. I drop markers on files, then I name them. I audition the marker by tapping the space bar and what ...? Did you see that? I just replaced the marker name with a space. no. NO. NOOOO! They changed the widget set that handled playlists and regions and completely broke the way that I worked for years. The window "focus" would stay in the playlist/region. It hurt me. I had to route around them. We will see what they mean by the following. Regions List and Playlist WindowsThe Regions List and Playlist windows in Sound Forge 9 have features for fast in-place editing and sorting. Quickly edit regions by typing new values in the Name, Start, End, or Length fields. But. really, except for a few tasks, I think I have moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Sony software is pretty much the same people from Sonic Foundry, and they still work out of Madison, WI. The "bad old days" as they struggled to recover from Sonic Foundry's problems are behind them; both Acid Pro 6 and Vegas 7 absolutely rock. Sound Forge 9 is the most recent program to benefit from the "changed climate" at Sonic Foundry -- I mean, Sony -- so I'm definitely looking forward to it. Checking over the specs, it seems like someone there said "Hey! Didn't we used to own the audio editing market? Shouldn't we do something to try to get back into that position?" More to come as I check it out...I downloaded my copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 That's interesting. Of course, they started losing me back when they were still Sonic Foundry -- when they didn't update CD-Architect for XP for what seemed like forever -- and then initially wanted $180 for the "upgrade." [OK... it wasn't forever -- but it was a full year after the long-planned release of XP -- CD-Arch 5 went out in Oct 2002.] I wish them luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yeah, Sonic Foundry went through some really rough times when they branched out into peripheral fields and lost focus on the software. It also pretty much put them out of business. Times have changed, thankfully...why not just download the demo and check it out for yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Well... it's no longer relevant to my life. But I do wish them luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rubber Lizard Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Dang! I bought two copies of version 8 just a month ago. Timing is everything. I like SoundForge for it's simple, intuitive interface. I still prefer it for fine editing work, compared to zooming in with Sonar. For mastering, however, I recently got better results from Sonar's new Vintage Channel plugin than from WaveHammer. It will be interesting to see whether going mutli-channel messes up the nice clean interface, my favorite part of Sound Forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Say, Rubber Lizard -- the one thing I miss from Sound Forge -- and, for that matter from Cakewalk Pro Audio -- is the ability to redraw a sample wave form with a pencil tool. Admittedly, I hadn't missed it until recently when I wanted to salvage something with one particularly nasty over. But I'd long noticed it's gone from Sonar... I'm not crazy am I? And if it's gone, what do discriminating engineers like yourself use to fudge a fouled up waveform back into something that won't tear your ears off your head? I mean... besides opening up Sound Forge? [bTW... I have Sonar 6P on the way and I'm really looking forward to the Vintage Channel and some other stuff.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted April 10, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 We will see what they mean by the following. "The Regions List and Playlist windows in Sound Forge 9 have features for fast in-place editing and sorting. Quickly edit regions by typing new values in the Name, Start, End, or Length fields."Does anyone really edit audio like that? I thought it was about listening, and either marking what you want to hear (and putting it where you want to hear it) or marking what you don't want to hear (and delete it). Is the editing community so obsessed with precision that it's no longer possible to edit by ear? The computer is a wonderful replacement for the razor blade, but only if it doesn't lose that capability and replace it with one where you have to remember numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spokenward Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Does anyone really edit audio like that? I thought it was about listening, and either marking what you want to hear (and putting it where you want to hear it) or marking what you don't want to hear (and delete it). Is the editing community so obsessed with precision that it's no longer possible to edit by ear? The computer is a wonderful replacement for the razor blade, but only if it doesn't lose that capability and replace it with one where you have to remember numbers. Honestly, I'm not sure what specific functionality they are talking about here - but there are a lot of different "editing communities". Broadcast markets or syndication care most about hitting the times. Some sound for picture probably makes sense only fitted to time. Some archival work is split arbitrarily to fit the 2GB filesize limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted April 10, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Well, it would be nice if they made it clear that SF9 wasn't a free upgrade from SF8. Honestly, since it's radically different, I didn't expect it to be free, but since my Version 8 "Check for updates" led me to a page where I could download Version 9, I gave it a shot. I installed it on my "mess with audio programs" computer so as not to corrupt one that I actually use. It took over half an hour to install because it wanted a bunch of Microsoft crap that I didn't currently have installed, so I let it gulp that up, install it all, and eventually it told me to reboot. It still hadn't installed Sound Forge, so I had to find where it put the setup file and run that. When I started it up, first thing it asked for was a serial number. I put in my SF8 serial number in hopes that it would be nice to me, but it wasn't. Nothing I could do with it. It didn't even offer to run in a crippled demo mode without a serial number. Dead and dumb. Since I don't need it, I un-installed it. Apparently there's a demo versin available if you take the trouble to find it. I didn't see any kind of flashy announcement of Version 9 on the web site, just a place to download it, like SF8 never existed. Eagerly waiting reports from the more patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yeah... that sounds pretty much in keeping with my Sony Sound Forge/CD-Architect experience. When I set up my new tower, I didn't even bother installing the two programs -- since I couldn't get CD-Architect to work at all at all and couldn't get SF8 to work with my MOTU 828mkII, only the built in soundcard. And, as I mentioned, Sony's "free 30 day support" was more insult than support... basically a FAQ with obvious suggestions I'd already tried. When I contacted them for more info -- I got nada. I know my experience wasn't everyone's experience but I certainly could not by any stretch recommend the product from Sony. BTW... speaking of the old Sonic Foundry, I actually redacted a couple paragraphs above telling about my experience there with a guy who said he was on the CD-Arch design team. Without going (too far) into the boring details, let me just say that he all but called me a liar and suggested that if I wasn't making it up, I didn't know the diff between files on my hard drive and files on my IDE CD-ROM reader when I told him I was burning CDs on my SCSI CD-burner (my first was 1996, a 2x) from CD-Arch project files on a CD-ROM in my reader -- he insisted flat out that it was impossible. He was really insulting. He was really an ass. 'Nuff said about the old SF, I guess. But, then again, at least you could get insulted by a real support person instead of just getting a FAQ sheet with obvious suggestions emailed to you and then having your further requests for assistance ignored, as I experienced under Sony. (And, to reiterate, I could burn with every other burn software on my machine but nothing ever got the Sony version of CD-Arch to work. My hundred bucks was the only thing that got burned. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenchin Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 So now it appears SF9 is pretty much the same animal as the current Wavelab. Or is it? What are the pros & cons between the two? I've used Sound Forge since version 5 (use V8 now for mixdowns) and am just so used to using it that I've never switched to Wavelab....although I keep thinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 You know... I think I'm gonna reinstall Sound Forge FIVE just to have an editor that actually works. (Damn, I hope my old autho codes will work, though.) THAT would certainly be a substantial upgrade from Sony's SF 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 I loved--LOVED--SF 4.5. It still pretty much defines the way I like an audio editor to work. But they were so slow to move to to 24 bit that they lost me. Of all the bizzez and buzzes at that heady time in audio apps, 24-bit was one that proved instantly necessary to me, and SF just couldn't git in on, until way too late, until v.5, which was absolute mud in terms of speed. I might take a look at this one, though Truth be told, I'm really enjoying the freebie, Audacity, for the few things I require a stereo editor for anymore (including its "What U hear" stream capturing) Actually Audacity does multitracking too. Between that and Reaper, a pretty damn state-of-the-moment multitrack/stereo editor combo is available at a puny fraction of what my standard Sonar/SF tandem goes for. I haven't looked into thre state of Reaper's MIDI lately. I know it has it, and I know it was the least developed part of the app back when I was following the pre-v.1 versions. Honestly I haven't seen that kind user-driven development pace since I was briefly onboard with EnergyXT. How did I get from SF to XT? Lord only knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Can you do sample-accurate editing and/or waveform redrawing in Audacity? Maybe that's the way for me to go, instead of reinstalling SF5... I don't think there are any of the then-vaunted SoundForge 5 FX or plugs that I much care about (esp. not that ham-fisted "Wave Hammer" compression). Although I do miss some of the analysis stuff... I really liked being able to see peak values and RMS avg power through the track, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dylan Walters Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Say, Rubber Lizard -- the one thing I miss from Sound Forge -- and, for that matter from Cakewalk Pro Audio -- is the ability to redraw a sample wave form with a pencil tool. Last time I checked Sound Forge had a pencil tool. I know it did at one point atleast... I haven't used the pencil tool for years so it's possible that it's been removed.... I'll be getting this upgrade once I get my tax refund. There haven't been any huge improvements to SF in years, but version 9 seems to add some very nice additions. FWIW, I've never had any major issues with any Sonic Foundry/Sony apps over the years. I started with Sound Forge 4.0 and have stayed pretty current with most of there apps aside from ACID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 Is the editing community so obsessed with precision that it's no longer possible to edit by ear? When creating sample CDs, it's important to have sample-accurate lengths. I can get close, but sample-accurate is a whole 'nother animal. I always liked the way Audition just let you type in the length and there you were: Sample accurate length. To get the demo, go Downloads > Trials. Or for Sound Forge 9, just go directly to http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/step2.asp?DID=726 As to my installation experience, I downloaded SF9, CDA, and the iZotope plugs separately (with the boxed version, they come with a DVD installer). Each has a serial number; registration is easy with an internet computer, but my music computer doesn't connect to the net, so I saved a file to a USB stick, opened it up in another computer, and got a response I could paste in to place. Everything worked smoothly. The Noise Reduction plug-in is no longer "optional at extra cost" but gets installed along with SF9. My first reaction is that there's a LOT more going on than with SF8. The interface is still clean, though. The pricing is aggressive: $299 for download version with SF9, CDA, iZotope plugs, and PDF manuals. You have to pay $20 more for paper manuals. Wavelab streets for $550 (I checked the price at Musicians Friend) so that's quite a difference. Upgrade to SF9 from any version of SF is $150. I had pretty much stopped using Sound Forge but this version has me intrigued. I could always work faster on SF than anything else, but part of that is because of Sonic Foundry's "unified field" interface for lack of a better term -- if you knew Vegas, Acid, or Sound Forge, you knew the other two. More to come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fantasticsound Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 ...Truth be told, I'm really enjoying the freebie, Audacity, for the few things I require a stereo editor for anymore (including its "What U hear" stream capturing) Actually Audacity does multitracking too. Between that and Reaper, a pretty damn state-of-the-moment multitrack/stereo editor combo is available at a puny fraction of what my standard Sonar/SF tandem goes for... You got some 'splainin to do, Lucy! I've been using Audacity as a way to perform a variety of edit functions on my work computer but I've never heard of this "What U hear" feature. That would be wonderful. I use Snagit to capture screenshots, text boxes, etc. and it has the capability to capture video with audio, but it's never worked well for me. I'd love to have a simple ability to capture audio this way. Also, maybe it's the version of Audacity I'm using, but it can be a huge PITA when it comes to start/stop of tracks. In other programs I could use the cursor to jump from one point to another regardless of whether audio was running or stopped. Audacity doesn't appear to allow this. There are a few other quirks I've largely ignored to have a free program running on my work machine. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 I think you only get "what you hear" options with the soundmixer applet for some interfaces... it can be handy, particularly for those not like, you know, us... not audio and/or computer geeks. With re the pencil tool in SF -- yeah, far as I know it's still in there... the disappearance I was lamenting was from CW/Sonar... CW PA used to have one (as does, last time I was paying attention, SF). And... with re: edit lists... these can actually be pretty powerful... some of our bretheren in Pro Tools are quite adept at setting up different edit lists for different purposes from the same raw audio files as I understand it. I used it a little in SF to do... something or other, might have been one of my last radio things... it's hazy. I mean, you CAN do SOME similar things -- and perhaps even more intuitively on some level, in Sonar with linked clips -- but it's nice to have as many options as you can as long as you don't get snowed by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted April 10, 2007 Members Share Posted April 10, 2007 I never really could resonate with SF. I did use it for a while to transcribe stereo tapes & vinyl to digital, but found it a bit clunky to work with, and the plugins/processing never really sounded 'right' to me. I still use CoolEdit 1.2 for wave editing. It just Works. When it crashes, no data is lost (if you click the 'recover' box the next time you start it). Some day I'll maybe switch to Audition... but no hurry. The only thing it has that CoolEdit doesn't is spectral editing. When in a DAW, right-clicking on any WAV and selecting "Open WAV in editor" automatically launches it & lets me do fine tweaking (though it's a bit dangerous to do some types of edits, like trimming anything off the front of the file). So I can multitrack from inside the DAW, and then tweak tracks or stereo mixes from inside the DAW program with CoolEdit pretty seamlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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