Members nat whilk II Posted March 10, 2008 Members Share Posted March 10, 2008 Check this out: http://zeropollutionmotors.us/ This would probably mean we'd get charged for using air.... nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff Leites Posted March 10, 2008 Members Share Posted March 10, 2008 What's the cost per mile of compressing the air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 10, 2008 Members Share Posted March 10, 2008 hmmm, the air is just the storage (in slow mode) and reaction mass (in fast mode) medium The low speed mode is a bit like saying the car is "driven by battery" as opposed to "electric" -- you have to produce some kind of difference from a base state which is stored (in the electric case...in electrical potential from ground, in the pneumatic case, a diff in pressure from the ambient) In the high speed mode, what you've got is an external combustion engine (stirling engine is popular example) - in both an internal and external combustion of this type, the air is acting kind of like a transducer (sort of like a "reaction mass" ) turning thermal engergy into mechanical work by virtue of thermal expansion (yup, in a very real way an IC engine runs on air too!) not to say potential efficiency gains, etc aren't a good idea, but "runs on air" may be a bit of a, shall we say, optimistic description of the technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted March 10, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2008 "Runs On Air" is a phrase people will certainly remember and pass around in small talk, but both...internal and external combustion...acting..like a transducer (sort of like a "reaction mass" ) turning thermal energy into mechanical work by virtue of thermal expansion.... just doesn't have the same ring.. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 10, 2008 Members Share Posted March 10, 2008 ain't marketing grand! I mean BMW uses "The ultimate driving machine" -- OK, if it's ultimate...why would you introduce a new model?!?! wouldn't your previous one be the "penultimate driving machine" then again, if the product specs matched the marketing copy we'd all be having guilt-free sex with supermodels almost as attractive as our perfect selves!!! sadly, "hey...if you drink this beer and buy this car you will get to have sex with your wife" doesn't have the same ring either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ani Posted March 10, 2008 Members Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well, after reading reading the article and watching the video, I followed another link provided on the page you sent me to. Seems as though France has signed an agreement with Tata Motors in India to assist in the development and production of the car... http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?p=25 Maybe they can market it for $2500 like India's car. I'm surprised that someone hasn't invented and marketed a car that runs on solar energy and is controlled by satellite. Or maybe they have??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted March 10, 2008 Members Share Posted March 10, 2008 here's a neat little air engine http://www.engineair.com.au/development.htm I imagine using solar panels to drive a compressor that fills a large tank under your house. YOu then use the air engine to generate power - i.e. the compressed air cylinder acts like a battery. Yup - I think there is a great future for compressed air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimOBrien Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ever see the "Mythbusters" episode where they knock the top off an oxygen cylinder and it turns into a rocket, going through a concrete wall??? Just wait till one of these high-pressure bombs gets hit by another vehicle. There will be a line of lawyers stretched around the block waiting to sue anyone who let them on the street. Remember that high-pressure oxygen and carbon-dioxide delivery vehicles have to be SPECIALLY LICENSED and display WARNING FLAGS just to get on the road now (and there's a reason why.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 every trademan's pickup has a compressor on the back to drive nail guns, drills etc - what are you talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 Are you sure those guys were working with an O2 cylinder?!? O2 has some serious problems like being explosivly reactivea better test would be an air cylinder like a scuba tank - the steels are typically 2250psi and alum at abt 3000psi(I remember a few accident reports in the 1980s re those things popelling themselves around to no good end)an accumulator on a construction compressor is going to only be pushing maybe 100-120psi or so (your typical road bike tire is 120 psi and a lot of garage compressors wont quite get there) One thing abt gas delivery vehicles, you've got two things..high pressure and chemical type to worry about -- then there's the commercial aspect our cars, for instance carry 12+ gals of gasoline, but commercial transport of gasoline in tankers require some special considerations , but I am allowed to drive around with my scuba tank it could certainly be a concern, but wed really need to take a look at the storage chamber design to see if it has a graceful fail mode, what the operating pressure is , etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 every trademan's pickup has a compressor on the back to drive nail guns, drills etc - what are you talking about. They don't plug them in until they get to a site... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 they also don't expel the compressed air when they leave the site. here's an interesting article on compressed air uses including cars. http://www.theaircar.com/acf/air-cars/energy-storage.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zygs Malone Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 they also don't expel the compressed air when they leave the site.here's an interesting article on compressed air uses including cars.http://www.theaircar.com/acf/air-cars/energy-storage.html That's cool. I keep hearing it said, "we must have fossil fuels to keep up with energy demand", and I think that's bull{censored}. If governments AND people got behind these kinds of technologies on small, AND large scale we could almost eliminate fossil fuels. Trut. There have been so many advances in renewable energy technology, and it is big business now, it's time for everyone to get behind it. One idea. Install solar shingles on every roof, of every house. That technology works. We've probably spent enough money in Iraq, to have already accomplished this ten times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 I think it'd matter on roof type like on a flat-pitch (say 2/12) you'd probably want to go rolled roof with trad panels as opposed to solar shingle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ever been near a semi-truck tire when it blows? Don't be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 One aggrivating problem there isn't so much it being a high presure vessle, it's that you've got stuff shrapnelling off a centrifuge still no fun to be around a tire that gives on a changer, but not like sitting next to a scuba tank while some joker props his foot on it (ugh, gives me the friggin willies, I just don't hang out when that happens) - hell - you can subcutaneously inject air into yourself with those bitches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 say, do they have design specs (especially on the pressure vessle) on those up anywhere? I think the problem is we don't really have a feel for the deisgn specifics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 every trademan's pickup has a compressor on the back to drive nail guns, drills etc - what are you talking about. Those compressors are also capped at 150psi and many are capped at 125psi, with a stock setting of 90psi, a lot different the the 2500psi or more in a gas cylinder of O2, CO2 and other commercial gasses.Of course, it's still dangerous but much less so. I would say the typical gasoline driven vehicle hauling the construction compressor is a much higher danger than the compressor itself, what with the pressurized flammable fuel system in use on the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 What really scares me abt the motor vehicle safety thing- it ain't so much the energy storage system, it's the kinetic energy (pop was an automotive eng, worked on early gen anti-locks...first thing he mae me do was walk 88ft...60mph is 88ft/sec) then he said "OK, you are sending a ton or more down that distance in a second" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ever see the "Mythbusters" episode where they knock the top off an oxygen cylinder and it turns into a rocket, going through a concrete wall???.... I've been witness to such an occurrence. A fellow had just had his oxygen and acetylene tanks refilled and not only failed to secure them but left the safety cap off. The driveway had a dip in it going to the street and with his speeding out and turning to enter the street his vehicle took a couple of big bounces, the oxygen tank flew out. When it did that it hit the street on the valve, snapped it off that the cylinder made a rapid flight across the street and through both back doors of a Cadillac parked along the street and rammed into a building, taking a chunk out of the exterior wall. It was extremely fortunate traffic was light and there was no one in the car that got hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ever been near a semi-truck tire when it blows?Don't be... Speaking of which... wasn't there an old kids joke about cars "running on air"? The punch line being something dumb about tires, right? Anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 Speaking of which... wasn't there an old kids joke about cars "running on air"? The punch line being something dumb about tires, right? Anyhow. "now with our air ride suspension" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zygs Malone Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 One aggrivating problem there isn't so much it being a high presure vessle, it's that you've got stuff shrapnelling off a centrifugestill no fun to be around a tire that gives on a changer, but not like sitting next to a scuba tank while some joker props his foot on it (ugh, gives me the friggin willies, I just don't hang out when that happens) - hell - you can subcutaneously inject air into yourself with those bitches As far as The Zero air cars are concerned the air tank is made of carbon fiber, with a thermoplastic liner, so if the tank is punctured the air will just leak out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JorisBlack Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 Let's start burning op our oxygen instead of oil, shall we. Solar and wind energy are the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted March 11, 2008 Members Share Posted March 11, 2008 As far as The Zero air cars are concerned the air tank is made of carbon fiber, with a thermoplastic liner, so if the tank is punctured the air will just leak out. any idea what the rated pressure is? like in the scuba tank example - the air just leaks out (the tank doesn't generally shrapnel) - but at 3000psi -- the leaking" can create problems Any idea of the CF composition (like how they are laying out the matting? the binder, etc - like does it delam/fluff under catastrophic failure, or greenstick or what - I wouldn't expect anyone to know top-of-head, but thought you might have access to the datasheets, failure data, etc) eh, just curious as to where they are with the design -- have kind of a QA fetish, and come from an automotive engineering family - so it's just of academic interest(not to mention I like CF/thermoplastic -- my MTB ride is an old OZx, even had a first gen Giant for a while...ok that one wasn't so great) I don't have a big personal stake in cars in general -- I'm HPV a great deal of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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