Baby's First Pro Tools

[MikeRivers]

Well, I finally got a computer up and running with Win7 that meets my cost criteria: $20 for the computer, $30 for the OS (I didn't ask), and $45 for a new 160 GB drive.

 

Took me darn near the whole day to install Pro Tools 10 though. I had an iLok and a card with an authorization code, it took about 3 hours to download the Pro Tools installer (my budget for Internet service is commensurate with my budget for computers) plus a little more time to download the iLok driver. Then there are little things like, since this Windows installer was very bare bones (I think it's a copy of a corporate installation), I had to download a PDF reader so I could read the documentation, and Quicktime, which I wouldn't have bothered with except that Pro Tools wanted it.

 

My Mackie 1200F, which I'd really like to be able to use with it, doesn't have a driver that works with Win7, nor does the Mackie Satellite, so looking around at what I had here, I hooked up the Mackie Onys 1220 with the Firewire card, which is supposed to work under Win7 with the latest driver. Downloaded the driver, hooked it up, and just to be sure it worked, tried it out with Sound Forge and Reaper on the the Win7 computer and it was good.

 

So I started Pro Tools for the first time, went to the hardware setup, and darn if the LOUD ASIO driver wasn't right there, and when I set up a track to record, all of the Onyx inputs and outputs showed up for me to choose from. Set up Onyx 1, armed the track, talked into a mic, and I said to myself: "Self, where are the darned meters on this thing. I don't see anything moving." To make a long story short, even though Pro Tools showed all of the inputs and outputs, and any of them would work with the other programs, I couldn't get any audio from it in Pro Tools.

 

But it gets better.

 

I have the ALVA Nanoface here for a review, so I installed its driver, checked it out with the non-Pro-Tools programs to be sure it was working with programs that I knew how to use, and then started up Pro Tools, which immediately complained that it couldn't find the Onyx (that didn't work), no surprise since I put it back on the shelf. So I went into Setup again, and the ALVA driver showed up as did the correct number of inputs and outputs. But when I went to set up a track for recording, rather than the ALVA inputs and outputs showing up, I only saw the Onyx inputs and outputs which of course weren't there. I never figured this one out.

 

So I got the Onyx 1640i, which I've actually seen in the Mackie room at NAMM running Pro Tools 10 (theirs, not mine) off the shelf, hooked it up, checked it out, and I got audio from this one. Hooray! Pro Tools works! But I really want to be able to swap interfaces around with the system, not have it hang on for dear life to the last one that it used. Anyone have any idea what's going on there?

 

Another annoyance is that when I clicked on Help, it opened a web browser which looked like it was going to the Avid web site, and gave me an Error 403 "Not authorized to view this page with your clearances" or something like that. Big help that is!

 

I couldn't find controls for monitoring, only input only and auto. The only way I could turn off input monitoring so I could hear just one of me through the headphones was to turn the playback volume all the way down on the track. There must be a button on there somewhere.

 

And there's got to be a quicker way to start recording. I arm the track on the track or the mixer, then I have to arm recording on the transport bar, and then I have to click the play button in order to get started recording, but first there's a count-off that I couldn't find where to turn it off.

 

I'll probably dabble with it a little now and then, but I sure don't want to take a lot of time learning another program if I'm not going to use it full time, which I'm not. I still like recording with hardware whenever possible, even if the hardware has software in it.

 

I don't want to watch videos to learn how to use this thing. Anyone know of a good printed book that's not too expensive and tells you how to do what you already know what you want?

[UstadKhanAli]

Wait until you update Pro Tools 10. 1.6G downloads. Whee.

 

I hate installing stuff so much I can't even begin to exaggerate this. Whether it's iLok or this or that or getting it to recognize the firewire interface or some other monkey business, it always seems like a giant pain in the ass. Once I get my computer rig operating, I so often don't want to touch it again.

 

Installing stuff with Photoshop is so much easier. Bang. Done.

 

But DAWs seem like such a pain in the ass with iLok, firewire interfacing, signal flow, driver issues, giant-ass downloads, installing jillions of plug-ins and all their finicky authorization schemes, and everything else.

[MikeRivers]

Geez! What a time sink! It's only been two days and I think I'm about to ditch this project. I realize that I've spent about 25 hours this week on this computer. This morning I missed with the mouse and accidentally clicked the "sleep" button in the taskbar instead of the one next to it and my computer went to sleep and I can't figure out how to wake it up. Power button doesn't do it, moving the mouse, pressing a key doesn't work. I pulled the power plug, had a cup of coffee and a bowl of cereal, plugged it in, and it started. I think I'll do something useful today instead of messing with this but I'll bet I can't stay away. It's like a magnet, but worse than sex.

 

I have projects that need doing that don't have anything to do with Windows 7 or Pro Tools.

[mcmike100]

 

Geez! What a time sink! .

 

 

That's why I now use Reaper.

 

Mike McRoberts

[MikeRivers]

That's why I now use Reaper.

 

Me, too, but I just go the feeling that when writing a review "It works in Pro Tools" has a wider appeal than "It works in Reaper."

 

But we'll always have PARIS, won't we? And I'm using a Digital Wings mouse pad at the moment.

[Anderton]

I believe this was fixed in 10, but in 9, the sample buffer needs to be a multiple of 64. Also, you have to tell Pro Tools about the hardware you're using and check some boxes to assign hardware I/O to software (you've probably done this, but sometimes PT hangs on to a previous interface's settings when you change interfaces).

 

Don't have my music computer on right now so can't be more specific, but it took me a while to figure out the whole I/O thing. Like many DAWs. Pro Tools is happiest when you set up an interface and pretty much leave it there.

[MikeRivers]

 

I believe this was fixed in 10, but in 9, the sample buffer needs to be a multiple of 64.

 

 

Yeah, I ran into that one when I changed the buffer setting on the BabyFace. Those numbers aren't anywhere near multiples of 64, not even the "Normal" setting that works. Trouble is that the BabyFace doesn't have a direct way to get into its setup program, you have to do it from the Advanced ASIO Configuration settings of the DAW application, which is where I made the change in the buffer. But when it sees a buffer setting that it doesn't like, Pro Tools quits before letting you get to where you can change it. I had to start Sound Forge, go to the ASIO Settings there, access the control panel, and switch it back to the Normal setting before I could open Pro Tools again with that interface connected. There must be a circle in Hell for people who design software like that.

 

 

Also, you have to tell Pro Tools about the hardware you're using and check some boxes to assign hardware I/O to software (you've probably done this, but sometimes PT hangs on to a previous interface's settings when you change interfaces).

 

 

There are I/O setup profiles that you can pick from if you get to the right dialog box before it's too late. The program has profile files a bunch of Avid interfaces, and once you create one for your interface, you can save it (the manual points you to saving it to a non-existent folder but I figured out where they really should go) and then recall it next time you use that interface. Thanks to Bob Olhsson who explained that unless you tell it differently, it uses the profile that it used last time. So even though it knows, based on the driver, where to get and put the data, the names haven't even been changed to protect the innocent. I could get audio in and out of the ALVA Channel 1 by selecting Mackie Channel 1. And it gave me a choice of 16 channels when the ALVA had only 6.

 

If you delete all of the entries in the currently selected I/O profile and then click on the Default button, it at least fills in the matrix with the correct number of channels. The NanoFace was probably a bad example to learn from because the I/O list in Reaper only identifies it as Channel 1, not ALVA Channel 1, so that's the best Pro Tools can do when filling in the matrix from the Defaults button. I'm a little limited in the number of interfaces I have around here that are supported by Win7 drivers. But giving a little credit to the program, you can rename the inputs and outputs and save that with the profile, so I was able to make it say ALVA Channel 1 in the Pro Tools listing.

 

The bottom line is that there are several additional steps that need to be taken in order to make Pro Tools I/O setup and assignments look work like most other DAWs I've used in this century. I guess they figure that once you have it set up for your first interface, why would you even want to use a different one? But then my goal is different than most. I don't plan to make Pro Tools my DAW of choice, I just want to verify Pro Tools compatibility when I'm writing a review of a piece of hardware.

 

 

Like many DAWs. Pro Tools is happiest when you set up an interface and pretty much leave it there.

 

 

I expect you've seen more DAWs than I have, but I've never had to do any more than tell a program what interface I was using and the right number of inputs and outputs always showed up.

[BushmasterM4]

My experience setting up a Windows 7 DAW and getting my Mackie 1640i drivers installed was smooth and easy. Installing PT10 and getting it to use my 1640i was a learning experience in navigating too many windows and reading the manual. Now that I have it running its stable. But I do have one glitch where I always have to start PT twice. Upon 1st start it informs me "it couldnt open my interface". It always starts up the second try. I do have Tracktion 3 and Reaper too and they always start up 1st try (and were easy to set up). Oh well. But I agree PT's GUI is chore to set up and navigate. I've looked a several books at my local Guitar Center on using PT10 and found them like the manual (not very friendly), so I bought the "Groove 3" video, and it has helped me along. I know you dont want a video though. I did print out the manual and read it in the library I figure if I reach for paper and non is there I can rip a page from the manual.

[MikeRivers]

I'm tempted to print the manual but I don't want that much wear and tear on my printer. I think that printing manuals is the responsibility of the product manufacturer, and that if it costs them an extra $20, we should pay it when we buy the product. I've printed out about 20 pages on the setup and now I have a pretty good idea of how it works. If I ever decide to get serious about learning Pro Tools, I'll probably send the PDF to Kinko's and let them wear out their printer. It'll probably cost about $50, and I'm so proud that I kept the cost of getting the system up and running below $100.

 

I haven't had a problem with Pro Tools recognizing my 1640i so far, though if I've been using it with the NanoFace, shut it down, connect the Onyx, and start the program again, it makes a point of telling me that it can't find the interface that it was using last (which is true). Sometimes it gives me the DAE Setup screen, and other times it quits and I have to restart it, holding down the N key which forces that screen to come up and waits for you to select the correct interface.

 

I have a Satellite that works with Reaper under Win 7, but although Pro Tools recognizes it, I can't get any audio through it. I haven't really spent much time with that one, though. I wish my 1200F would work with it, but rumor has it that the driver won't install in Win7 and they probably aren't planning a driver update. When I feel like getting the 1200F and the Win7 computer in the same place, or at least within the 15 foot reach of a Firewire cable, I'm going to see if the driver will install in the XP compatibility mode, but I suppose better men than I have tried that already and failed.

[UstadKhanAli]

You could just print out the pages that you need.

[BushmasterM4]

I have a Samsung ML-2150 Laser Printer that gets roughly 8,000 pages out of a toner cartridge. And I use refilled toner cartidges that cost me $49 per. So thats about .006125 per page. So thats $6.12 per 1,000 pages. Im on my second Samsung ML-2150. I printed over 365,000 pages with the first one (bought new), before it gave up the ghost. Bought this one used for $98 (shipped) and it had only printed just over 1200 pages, so it has plenty of life left. I kept the old one just in case I need spare parts . Laser printers are the way to go, but some are cheaper to operate than others. I researched the hell out of them before I bought the 2150. Brother makes some nice cheap to operate printers too. I do have one inkjet that I use for color stuff and it doesnt get much use. Ink Jets are a racket.

[MikeRivers]

You could just print out the pages that you need.

 

If I read it well enough to decide which pages I needed, then I wouldn't need them printed any more.

[MikeRivers]

 

I have a Samsung ML-2150 Laser Printer that gets roughly 8,000 pages out of a toner cartridge. And I use refilled toner cartidges that cost me $49 per. So thats about .006125 per page. So thats $6.12 per 1,000 pages.

 

 

You're cheaper than Kinko's. Will you print me a copy of the Pro Tools manual for ten bucks?

[Anderton]

When I learned Pro Tools, I just messed around. When I couldn't figure something out, I did a search on the PDF. That's pretty much how I learn most programs these days; there are so many areas of commonality that if I were to print out the manual, probably 60-80% of the pages would contain information I already know, or could figure out faster than I could if I thumbed through the pages.

 

So many programs "adopt" so many features from so many other programs that there seems to be a kind of "critical mass" point - if you've used enough programs, you know most of any program. They all have their little unique quirks, but I think it's getting to the point where those are in the minority compared to a program's totality.

 

One of the REALLY nice things about software is I can click on stuff that's completely wrong until I find the right button and not break anything

[Huh?]

Mike I am quite familiar with PT and will be happy to try help you with a specific issue. I already see some things I could answer. What I would like to suggest if you are going to stick with PT is to get a video tutorial.

 

Here is one from Groove 3. There is a little play button on the top right that will bring up a short video demo on what they look like. This one is on sale right now for $20....down from $40.

 

http://www.groove3.com/str/pro-tools-9-explained.html

 

Otherwise, let me know.....I would love to try and be helpful.

[Huh?]

 

and then I have to click the play button in order to get started recording, but first there's a count-off that I couldn't find where to turn it off.

 

 

Open your transport window to the expanded view and you'll see a small window at the top left of the far right window that says "Count Off". Click that OFF and you should get the roll starting right away with no count off.

[MikeRivers]

Open your transport window to the expanded view and you'll see a small window at the top left of the far right window that says "Count Off". Click that OFF and you should get the roll starting right away with no count off.

 

Too late. I found it already. But as Craig says, the way you learn these programs is by clicking on things. And there's no way I'm "sticking" with Pro Tools. I only want to be able to verify, for the unwashed masses (those using Pro Tools because it's popular, not because they really need all of its potential power) that a device works with it.

 

For example, Craig's comment about Pro Tools only wanting to see ASIO buffer sizes in increments of 64 samples let me to hook up the ALVA BabyFace, that has buffer sizes selectable by name, which are all sorts of odd numbers of samples. At the "Normal" setting, it works. But when you dig down and open the ASIO settings, it shows only one for this interface, 256 samples.

 

Now I'm darn sure that the first time I tried this, I saw the text versions of the buffer, but I may have been looking at it from another program. Anyway, at one point I changed it to the "Fast" setting, and then Pro Tools wouldn't even get through its startup routine. I had to crank up another program, open its ASIO settings panel, and reset the interface to "Normal" before Pro Tools was happy with it.

 

That sort of thing just shouldn't happen. It may have happened because I did something wrong (other than change the buffer size) like not press a key to jump into a setup mode before getting to the point where the program rejected the interface. And even if it wasn't happy, it shouldn't just quit outright. I'll concede that this sort of thing isn't likely to happen to an ordinary user, who sets up the program with his hardware and leaves it that way until he buys another interface.

 

I appreciate the offer to help, but a video just isn't going to do it for me. I need someone to sit here with me when something like this happens and can ask "OK, what does this really mean? And unfortunately business isn't good enough to pay for hiring a full time expert consultant. I guess I'll have to live with forums, and getting myself out of jams by poking around.

[Philter]

You wouldn't need a full-time consultant Mike, probably 8 hours would do it. A handful of 2-hour sessions with a local guy who knows ProTools would be a big boost for you. I wouldn't feel shy to get instruction on playing an instrument... how much easier is this stuff that that, anyway?

[MikeRivers]

 

You wouldn't need a full-time consultant Mike, probably 8 hours would do it.

 

 

I often suggest to people that they try to find someone locally who knows something about what they're asking, but it's usually stuff like which output goes to which input. I agree that 8 hours ought to do it, but I need someone who can explain things the way I do. Start with something that works right (which I probably have now) and show me what effect something has when it's changed. I can do that myself, of course, but I might not see it because I'm not looking in the right place.

 

Any volunteers? I'll buy lunch.

[MikeRivers]

F12 or numeral pad 3 to start a recording pass. Command Period will stop the recording pass and abandon that audio for a useless take.

 

Oh, yeah, so intuitive! Who would have ever tried that? *, R, and Ctrl-R are, as I recall, pretty common keyboard shortcuts for one-button-record. I guess the asterisk isn't so intuitive other than when you consider its other meaning of "splat!".

 

Ain't no Command key on a Windows keyboard.

[Huh?]

I personally find Pro Tools MUCH more intuitive than Reaper. Reaper is a very nice program, but to me it's clunky.....of course, like Mike I have never really taken the time to learn it. Reaper is extremely efficient with soft synths and sample libraries though...... and you can open an instance of Reaper in an insert on a track within a Pro Tools session and run VST's in there....efficiently.

 

Mike are you saying that if you go into Setup>Playback Engine you only have 256 under the H/W Buffer setting? I would have thought Pro Tools would have the standard settings of 32,64,128,256,512 and 1024.

 

BTW under Playback Engine......you should always set it for 1 less processor than what you have. So if your computer is a quad, set it to 3 processors. Set CPU usage to 95% and if you want you can try check "Ignore errors during playback...." Delay Compensation if you have PT9 or PT10 can be set to long or whatever...the bigger setting and don't touch the DAE Playback Buffer...leave it at 2 as well as the plug in streaming buffer.

 

I usually start off at around 256...maybe 128 if I am playing guitar...and then up it to 1024 for mixing.

 

Under Settings is also where you have the Hardware Setup...choose the interface and set the clock to internal....dunno man....I hope you are getting going with it.....it's a great program...I hope you take to it.

 

Also under Settings is the I/O and you should see your interface there.....you can always hit default if things are getting hairy in there. I'm using a Mac so I cannot recommend any Windows optimization.....but if you go to the Avid DUC forum you will find troubleshooting info and setup stuff.

 

http://duc.avid.com/

 

Here is a good general Pro Tools troubleshooting and optimization page.

 

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=133039

 

Bon chance mon ami.

[MikeRivers]

 

Mike are you saying that if you go into Setup>Playback Engine you only have 256 under the H/W Buffer setting? I would have thought Pro Tools would have the standard settings of 32,64,128,256,512 and 1024.

 

 

Well, you see, this is the sort of thing that I've been running into when jerking interfaces in and out of the system. With the Mackie mixer, I get some choices of buffer size. With the ALVA Nanoface, I only get 256, and the screen that comes up is different from the one that comes up when I go into the ASIO setup from Reaper or Sound Forge.

 

256 samples never appears on the "real" ALVA ASIO setup screen. It displays pairs of number for input and output latency like:

 

115/281 (input/output)

307/1016

2455/1075

 

What I know so far is that when set at the "Normal" setting (307/1016), Pro Tools works. When I set it to a different value (and I'm not sure how I did that) Pro Tools doesn't work. But the part about that I'm not sure how I changed the buffer to a doesn't-work setting is what bothers me. I must have been in Pro Tools when I changed the setting the first time, and I'm pretty sure I saw the standard ALVA screen to get there. But once I got it working again by re-setting the buffer to "Normal" using another program, and then went back to look at the buffer settings in Pro Tools, that's where I saw only 256.

 

I'm not sure if it works this way when I have a Mackie interface connected. I can't remember if I tried setting the buffer size on one of those from Pro Tools.

 

If I was really trying to diagnose a problem, I'd have the computer up and running and be trying things as I'm typing, but I've set it aside. This isn't really a problem I'm trying to resolve, I'm just musing about one of the ways that I'm puzzled by the program.

 

 

BTW under Playback Engine......you should always set it for 1 less processor than what you have. So if your computer is a quad, set it to 3 processors.

 

 

Is there a 0? I have a single processor, a Pentium 4.

[MikeRivers]

OK, I set up the computer again. This system is just crazy. It's inconsistent, or at least I can't figure out what it's doing consistently. Perhaps I'm doing things in the wrong order, but what I'm doing seems to make sense to me.

 

I start Pro Tools. Sometimes it complains that it can't initialize the I/O device and quits, so I start it again, and this time it tells me that it can't find the currently selected I/O device and gives the the opportunity to select another. So I do, and then check the I/O Setup and, while it identifies the selected device correctly, it shows input and output names and routing for what was there before.

 

If I Import settings (it seems that I have to do it for both the Input and Output tabs) sometimes it comes up right, sometimes it comes up wrong. I'm importing an I/O setup that I'd previously saved, both in the Inputs and Outputs tab, for good measure. If I'm importing a setup for the Alva, sometimes it comes up with the paths labeled for Alva, other times for Satellite. The Alva has 3 stereo inputs and 3 stereo outputs, and only inputs and outputs 1-2 show up after I've supposedly imported input and output settings for the 3 stereo inputs and outputs. And sometimes it shows up correctly. If (and only if) I delete the existing paths and click the Defaults button does it come up right, and it does so for either the Mackie Satellite or the Alva Nanoface.

 

Now I suppose it's possible that these interfaces have drivers that are flaky under Pro Tools, but they both work consistently and correctly with other programs. What should my conclusion be? That Pro Tools gets confused with this interface? Or that Pro Tools is just plain screwy?

 

Can someone clarify what "Sessions overwrite current I/O Setup when opened" means?

 

The way I interpret the language, it means this:

• either open an existing session - in which case I'd want the I/O setup to override the existing setup, not the other way around - or open a new session which, when I created a track, would give me the correct choices.

 

What's wrong with either this picture or what I'm doing when I start Pro Tools?

[UstadKhanAli]

Other than that you're using a Pentium 4?

[Lee Flier]

 

I personally find Pro Tools MUCH more intuitive than Reaper. Reaper is a very nice program, but to me it's clunky.....of course, like Mike I have never really taken the time to learn it.

 

 

Yeah, I don't find that to be the case at all, even though I used Pro Tools years before I ever used Reaper. I don't find Reaper to be clunky at all, certainly not since at least version 3, and because the interface is so tweakable, you can set it up pretty much however you want and I have a default template that works really well for me.

 

Certainly Reaper's much easier to use in terms of hardware compatibility and setup, file importing, routing and a lot of other things. About the only area where Pro Tools has an advantage, to me, is editing. That's more intuitive in PT, but I don't do a ton of editing anyway and I have Reaper's paradigm down pat now, so its no big deal.