Why are we any different??

You know with all the talk on these threads about musicians being untrustworty and unreliable why is it they are so different than anyone else? Maybe we are not different. You would think that it would not be that way? It seems there is so much acrimony with music. It's too bad for such a positive thing. It is like there is always so many screwed up personalitites maybe more than most industries. I would be interested to hear what you guy's think.

I assume your question was rhetorical, so I'll just agree with you. Musicians are no different from any other segment of the population, warts and all.

Musicians are different in one sense from most people though: we tend not to be employed in the profession we would choose, and spend most of our time complaining about (or dealing with) having to hold down crummy jobs to pay for a passion we share. This tends to make for a group of largely unstatisfied people. Unsatisfied people with access to a forum.

I actually enjoy comiserating with all you fellows. I find it therapeutic to vent about how frustrating trying to be a musician is sometimes.

Pick an industry, social club, check-out line, amusement park, boardroom, bathroom, school, daycare center, military branch, church, whatever......Young, old, black, white, ....American, Portugese, Latvian.....Catholic, Buddist.....it's all the same.

There's a simple, but very wise quote from someone I can't remember right now:

"People are motivated by self-interest."

That pretty much says it all.

I definitely think that it has to do with jealousy, self-interest, and plain old laziness. I've worked many straight jobs and found that there will always be opportunists that try to advance by holding (or putting) others down-but musicians (or at least those that say they are) are a mixed lot There are so many people that "hang on" to the group of musicians and join bands etc.. just to be part of a "scene" or a "crowd". They usually can't keep money in pocket, they never have nice (barely functioning) gear, they have social problems, they borrow (and steal) etc.. THen there is the "entitlement" mindset that many creative people have. To be creative usually requires a healthy ego- the balls to put something out there (original song, or just performance, getting up and doing your thing, acting, film making, writing, painting, etc..) and the way we rationalize our ego's need to be fed- " I deserve this because I am an ARTIST damnit and I can't afford it so I need to get it by whatever means I can!"

Which brings me to some of the posts on this forum that perpetuate the everlasting myth that all "art" is just bestowed upon the creator by some divine muse called "inspiration"

I have read posts:

"I don't want to take lessons because it will ruin my originality"

"You can't learn to write songs from a book"

"You have to rely on your heart"

"I can't afford Sonar, so I downloaded it from kaaza" (although they own a Mesa Triple Rectifier amp and 1000.00 worth of pedals)!

Which by and large are all bull{censored}-

lessons never hurt anyone-everyone got better

You CAN learn to write songs from a book, making them distinctly yours is another matter

Your heart is great-but it's unreliable-the most important part of the creative process is CRITIQUING / EDITING / REVISING which requires your BRAIN and knowledge/ skill base

So-yes, I think musicians are a little more susceptable to this kind of behavior due to the entitlement/ego issues (although CEO's would fall into this category as well) musicians are also surrounde by the ever present myth of "artist" that CEO's don't have acceess to....

-B

You know with all the talk on these threads about musicians being untrustworty and unreliable why is it they are so different than anyone else?.

Well, I agree with what others have already said that people are people in the general sense. Some good, some bad. From my vantage point though, musicians, on the whole are a different breed altogether. Many, though not all, are very leisure with their time and are usually care-free in the way they conduct their lives. Most are not pragmatic by nature and usually lack the sticktoitiveness to follow through and stay focused. That's where I think the "unreliable" viewpoint comes into play.

Another thing that I think alot of musicians find appealing about the music business is the lack of authority and freedom that it brings. Let's face it, the music business on the whole is not a structured enviroment and for that very reason many musicians fail because they're incapable of implementing any discipline into their lives. Some get lucky and get a break and that's all good but, many fail to realize they have to maintain the lucky break they've been given and the fact is, many don't. I think some of them don't even have a clue how lucky they truly are and for the the other guys further down the totem pole who couldn't catch a break if it were handed to them, that's were jealousy and resentment come into play because they "do" realize it and don't take it for granted IMHO.

The saddest part about this business is the fact that there are so many talented people that none of us will ever get the opportunity to hear. Life's unfair and that's just the way it is. I think alot of musicians have a very difficult time accepting that notion. You know though, there are other people who help this forum out all the time. Guys like Bluestrat etc. - who are playing music and doing it successfully on their own terms. I think that's inspiring. They've told their stories and I've learned from them that you don't have to have national attention and a major label contract to be successful. You just have to find a way to make it work for you.

Okay, I'm done rambling. Sorry for the book. Cheers to all fellow musicians!!! :D

I think the perception is because most other people don't have hobbies that require such a commitment of time and energy. Group practices, private practicing, gigs, gear - it's an investment of time and energy. The only other commitment I can think of timewise is Dungeons and Dragons, but even then it's just showing up and slinging spells for one night a week. In the privacy of your living room, no less.

Maybe community theater is a comparable commitment - but you're working toward a goal (the Big Night), and then you disband.

When does your commitment to a band end? This is never addressed when a band forms - I mean, people are expected to stay in the band till the band "makes it"! If someone said they were just staying at their job until they won they lottery, you'd call them delusional. But a lot of musicians seem to still harbor the fantasy, even if they know they should know better.

I think the perception is that they're less trustworthy because bands so frequently fall apart - but a "band" is, in most cases, a vaguely defined thing in the first place. People join, but don't start to hash out the terms and agreements until several months into it. It's a very odd way to do things.

Maybe the musicians who are trustworthy and reliable have made it into the upper echelons of the biz already =)

I think a very real difference is that a musician has to learn not only the whole language of music with theory, chords and intervals on top of having use parts of his or her body in order to create any expression in that medium, be it strength, or dexterity or reach, and not making mistakes, all piled on the fact that a musician has to learn to play in time with other people. Exactly how this makes us different, I'm not qualified to say, only that it's a discipline, and undertaking any discipline is a commitment.

Another factor, which may be less common but more noticeable is that many great musicians are also burdened with clinically diagnosable mental illnesses. If one brings the other I still couldn't say, but there's always something slightly bent about the great ones. And drug abuse or self-medication is part of that. Artists have to learn a discipline to express themselves, many are/were insane. Athletes need to do the same thing with their bodies, get stronger, quicker less prone to mistakes. But not as often do they have to keep a mental clock constantly ticking in order to maintain their ability to collaborate.

It's different. no doubt.

No help at all...

-klik-

Also take into account in a 5 person band. 4 can be totally great, well adjusted, dedicated, etc. and it only takes 1 bad apple to spoil it for everyone. Can't tell you how many times that has happened.

It's just a very strange and difficult thing to succeed at if you take it very serious.

It is similar in many ways to the acting profession or comedy profession. You have to work at another job while persuing your main interest. However, with acting or comedy you usually only have to rely on yourself and not a group.

I think in the world of "successful" musicians, it happens the other way around. One guy is a little more talented, serious, persistent, and dedicated. He moves on, and up into a more serious band, or better situation. The former band plays the corner bars till they get too old, tired, fat and married.

The industry has a way of shaking out the dead wood.

(Did I just slaughter a couple of metaphors there, or what ?)

Originally posted by EcHoplex You know with all the talk on these threads about musicians being untrustworty and unreliable why is it they are so different than anyone else?. Well, I agree with what others have already said that people are people in the general sense. Some good, some bad. From my vantage point though, musicians, on the whole are a different breed altogether. Many, though not all, are very leisure with their time and are usually care-free in the way they conduct their lives. Most are not pragmatic by nature and usually lack the sticktoitiveness to follow through and stay focused. That's where I think the "unreliable" viewpoint comes into play. Another thing that I think alot of musicians find appealing about the music business is the lack of authority and freedom that it brings. Let's face it, the music business on the whole is not a structured enviroment and for that very reason many musicians fail because they're incapable of implementing any discipline into their lives. Some get lucky and get a break and that's all good but, many fail to realize they have to maintain the lucky break they've been given and the fact is, many don't. I think some of them don't even have a clue how lucky they truly are and for the the other guys further down the totem pole who couldn't catch a break if it were handed to them, that's were jealousy and resentment come into play because they "do" realize it and don't take it for granted IMHO. The saddest part about this business is the fact that there are so many talented people that none of us will ever get the opportunity to hear. Life's unfair and that's just the way it is. I think alot of musicians have a very difficult time accepting that notion. You know though, there are other people who help this forum out all the time. Guys like Bluestrat etc. - who are playing music and doing it successfully on their own terms. I think that's inspiring. They've told their stories and I've learned from them that you don't have to have national attention and a major label contract to be successful. You just have to find a way to make it work for you. Okay, I'm done rambling. Sorry for the book. Cheers to all fellow musicians!!! :D

I agree with you here. It is just too bad that it happens because there is a lot of frustration that makes you want to sell your equipment sometimes and do something else.

If it means anything, I've heard mechanics, dentists, carpenters, cabinetmakers, and plumbers say the same thing.

This is where the "Believe in Yourself" speech goes, (a little mood music, please?)

Of course we're different!

We've got HC Forums!