it's about time i bought a damn PIANO!

I moved into a new apartment with a nice big bedroom. I have space for a piano and i really want one. I don't have money to buy one though. I see lots of free ones on craigslist but most of them are crap. If i'm going to pay movers a few hundred, i might as well spend a few hundred on actually buying one that doesn't totally suck. I won't be able to fit anything through the door that is larger then a console. What brands should I look for?

I should probably stop lusting for this Yamaha M560 that's selling for 2000, because that's way out of my price range.....

Because pianos are not easily sold/moved/bought, it's probably better to save your money and get something better when you can afford it. If you really want a piano now, at that price, your best bet is to find something locally where someone just wants to get it out of their house. Finding one of those that isn't beat up too badly and all of the keys work is a more important consideration than the brand.

Maybe try ads in print media around town - someone who is liquidating an estate or selling grandma's piano because she's moving, etc. You're really going to have to find a helluva a deal and swoop in on it quickly. And, as always, spend a few nickels on Larry Fine's Piano Book.

I've serviced pianos full time for nearly forty years.

You shouldn't be thinking about buying a cheap piano, given the advances in digital pianos, unless you need something to play where there's no electricity.

Here's my thought.

Find a used digital, with 88 keys. Both Yamaha and Casio make them and the street price, new, is $500-$600. Go to Best Buy, GC, and Sam Ash and try them, then find a used version of one you like.

1. Your neighbors will appreciate your being able to turn the vol down or use headphones. It's an apartment, not a house. One should only annoy the neighbors deliberately.

2. You can route it to a PC or Mac, and even use MIDI

3. You don't need to pay someone to move it.

4. It won't go out of tune.

I have been thinking along the exact same lines as the OP. I have moved into a modest (but cozy) house in a modest neighborhood and for the first time in years, I have room for a REAL piano. And I'm going to get one. I don't care if it is beat-up as SRV's Strat. All I care is that it have a decent bass, the keys work, and that it holds tuning.

There is a HUGE difference, at least for me, in playing a real piano and any digital I have laid hands on so far. Real hammers hitting real strings is a profoundly compelling sound for me- I do a weekly solo gig on a decent grand and it almost seems like it plays itself. I need that motivation throughout the week, in order to keep focused on developing as a musician.

Stick with your plan, Soundwave!!

The pre-depression era 50+" uprights will give you a decent bass, but they're gone, for the most part. Depends on your local climate. The post-war spinets and the vast majority of the consoles are pretty thin. Asian mfgs started exporting the taller uprights in the seventies, but be aware of wood seasoning issues, especially the earlier "gray market" models. The bass tone on most cheaper grands are no better than mediocre verticals.

Thanks Senior! Thinking the best I could do would be a used Yamaha or Kawai studio upright- although both may be out of my price range unless I were to buy from a school or institution that was upgrading. In the mid-80's I had a Korean studio upright (Maeori?) that wasn't too bad, although not as "grand-like" as the Japenese makes.

Institutions tend to beat pianos to death before they replace them. They're also often subjected to relatively severe micro climate changes. The seasonal changes are a huge deal these days for most brands, given that many exporters initially don't believe how Americans heat their homes. Wood that's not properly seasoned is a real problem, unless you keep your thermostat really low in the winter (like everyone else on the planet.)

The problem with digital stage pianos is they look so out of place in a home. Roland, Yamaha, and Kurzweil make some nice looking digital pianos that look like the real thing, KURZ making and upright and Roland making a baby grand, but they are a lot of money for something that may sound pretty fake 10 years from now. Still they do tend to be cheaper than the real thing in many cases. I am so used to the advantages of keyboard technology playing a piano is a lost art for me. I do say this until l get fingers on a real grand somewhere and then that feeling always comes back reminding how far we still have to go to authenticate the acoustic piano sound.

A digital piano sounds like a good/excellent piano played through speakers. It can never overcome that difference. I have a Kurzweil MIDIBOARD to play and Pianoteq on the computer, which is probably as responsive a combination as you could ever want. Unless I'm recording or transcribing, I still actually play on my $400 cranky old 1917 upright 'grand' that changes with the weather and clangs on some notes and has a bass like a washtub; it sure ain't perfect, but it's real.

If you're wanting a real piano, get a real piano.

Many years ago, I saw Taj Mahal, who was lugging around a massive 19th century grand. I think he did this, rather than rent locally, because he really liked the tubby bass strings. It did sound cool . . . . a proper sounding concert grand wouldn't have worked for his material at all.

So a lot of this is about what kind of music you're playing. Obviously I'm all about a well designed, well tuned, well regulated piano . . . but I was not sorry to see the demise of those little post-war spinets. I hated tuning those things and would rather play a decent digital, speakers and all. Apparently the broader market thought so too.

As bad as the majority of spinets sound and play, they still have that 'presence'. Someday I'd like to have a good quality studio upright or console, but in the meantime I'm still glad I have my livingroom furniture grade turdbox spinet.

SoundwaveLove: we can all grok with your scene and your frustrated desire for an acoustic.

You're broke? Sell some thing(s) or service(s) and cop your dream!

Dig: it may not be apparent now, but you pretty much need to be at a point in your life where you're in a (relatively) stable and long-lasting home situation in order to be able to enjoy the natural benefits of having a real piano in your life. If you're not in a place for a nice long stretch, you're obviously going to have to move and tune ($$ & major effort) the piano every time that you move!

As we all know, demand for pianos maximizes between now and Christmas. At the same time, there are all kinds of secondhand uprights that people are trying to unload - maybe more than ever (but probably it just seems like it because of the many free online 'sites that make the availability of these instruments so apparent).

If you're really going to walk the walk, get out, scope out, and play the freebie/cheapies that are within a geographically reasonable radius of your place. Pay your tuner/tech to check out whatever seems acceptable to you, and get on it.

This will put you in the Grinnin' Zone that is the joyful foundation of our craft.

P.S.- a Yamaha MS560 for 2 large?

You'll always be able to get at least that much from it.

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/yamaha.htm

I have a really nice upright piano (a Charles R. Walter) that I bought new about 8 years ago. It plays like a dream and sounds great. But I hardly ever play it. I prefer electro-mechanical and electro-acoustic pianos. For electro-acoustic, I'm digging the Kawai EP-608. I like the thin, bright tone. However, the Rhodes has won my undying love for all eternity. I'll take a Rhodes over just about anything. Maybe that's why I can't get laid? Actually, I once heard Branford Marsalis interviewed. He was asked why the saxophone was such a romantic instrument. He responded that he never heard of anybody getting laid by playing a Fender Rhodes.

Anyway, for me, digital pianos don't cut it. I need real hammers hitting real strings, tines, or reeds. Feel and tone before practicality.

I love Charles Walter pianos - they have the best action I have ever played.

The touch weight on a Walter is 50gr, typical of most grands. Most verticals are closer to 40gr.

I used to sell them. They've been around since the 70s, but probably hard to find used. Very nice bass tone, too.

Not sure I would trust Larry. You could wind up a victim of circumstance with a Hammond Egger. For pianos, ask Chico Marx.

Larry is a piano technician - an RPT member of the Piano Technicians Guild. He started by asking hundreds of his colleagues around the country, myself included, to fill out a form for every piano we serviced, so his observations are based on data, not just his personal opinion. Everything he's written is consistent with my experience of nearly forty years of running service calls.

Oh, I thought you meant THIS guy...

I missed that connection completely . . . . .

Get chummy with a piano tuner! I've been bandmates with a few (and piano wasn't even their primary axe).

He/she'll know how to figure out if a particular beat up piano is beyond hope or not and will probably know movers who are good with pianos.

Chummy?

We actually charge for piano inspections.

. . . and hopefully you have access to professional piano movers.

You may consdier buying from a rebuilder. There are a lot of them around me (Chicago). Consider buying on time, i.e., monthly payments etc.

I agree, I can't get the same experience playing a digital. They have their own place. Maybe it's like moving from acoustic guitar to electric.

Regards,

Oh, I thought you meant THIS guy...

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk...

Interestingly enough though, he was a concert violinist.

no, it's like moving from a acoustic to a line6 vari-axe