writing for drums

I'm assuming that most people write songs starting with drums, rhythm, then build from there.

I'm really a melody person, and have never been good with beats. I use a metronome to keep a sense of timing that I can work around, and plan to have a friend add a drum track when everything is done.

Has anyone had any luck adding drums after the fact?

I guess i don't want to build off of his drum tracks since I've done that before, and it seems to really influence the melody.

The only problem I see with adding drums later is that it might seriously screw with eq. Of course I'd have to readjust everything to some degree, but drums seem to have a lot of presence, and force a rethinking of all of the other timbres.

One solution I've thought of is to put in a simple drum track with samples for whatever time i'm working with, and then complete the song. This will allow me to structure song eq around the drum sounds that i'll be using. The actual beat can be altered later by my friend using drum sounds with the same eq.

any thoughts?

QUITE THE CONTRARY, MAN. what do drums have to do with writing a song...in its purest form? (meaning: harmony/melody)

i have NEVER written a song with the drums first. never. i've been inspired by an interesting beat, but i've never written from it. I usually start with melody.

you seem to be mixing the concept of writing with producing and the steps involved in making a studio "track" recording (as opposed to 'live" recording)

If your question is about tracking a song, i think it's a safe bet to track the drums in first, THEN get the rest of the live instruments recorded. if you're using software instruments, then you can lay down whatever in whatever order you like. (hence, your idea of the "simple" drum track)

i like to track drums first for a number of reasons. i record live drums...i play them myself on my records...and it's my weakest instrument, so i have the MOST amount of editing to do in Logic/Cubase on my drum tracks. for that, i edit the drums RIGHT AFTER i track them. THEN, once it's done, i track bass and whatever else. (MOST drummers who aren't studio monsters have big problems with timekeeping...even the good ones, so that's why it's a good idea to get it in first)

another reason to track drums first is that you can layer over them and line up your parts better with the fills. ...it's ALOT easier for a drummer to play his fills "to feel" than to try and play them to already-recorded instruments and have them feel as good.

as far as your eq-ing is concerned: forget about it. leave that for mixdown. just work on getting your performances tracked as best you can, THEN work the EQ.

hope i helped.

Like Bluesway, I think you got it mixed up. Writing the song I find is easiest using either guitar or piano (and all those sweet sounds of a sampler). Then when I have a melody and chordprogression, I usually just make up some random lyrics to remember the melody with (and that lyric tends to survive, sadly!).

Then, when I start recording, I start off with finding a beat for the different pieces (ie. verse, chorus, bridge and so on.) Then I copy/paste that beat, and then start recording the tracks. Usually bass will follow, but it's not a rule. I tend to be guided by intuition, rather than experience. That can be both good and bad, I guess, but that's my style. And then more often than not, the song slowly drifts in another direction, which is incidently what I like, so that's cool. Other times, I have a very clear image of the song, the instruments, breaks and all, and then it's just a matter of recording what I "hear".

After recording, I start to do breaks and other small adjustments on the drums, to liven it up a bit, and then in the perfect world, I should be doing a retracking of all the instruments, to kind of make it all perfect, but then my lazinesss forbids me to touch the song. I have a very limited amount of time available to music, and that I tend to spend on creating, rather than perfection.

The drums are the first actual real part I track (so far anyway), but it's not the first part 'written', to the extent that I actually ever really write anything down first. So it's kind of

concept -> lyrics -> basic structure/production ideas -> a bunch of thinking about how the parts will flow together and what instruments and so forth -> guide track on guitar -> scratch lyrics maybe -> then tracking drums, bass, guitar, etc...

So you could always work out a basic guitar/vocals scratch track (with a metronome), then send it to him with the BMP so he can then lay down drums to that. Then you get his drums and start building up the overall song based on what he put down in response to your basic outline.

Usually in writing a song, I go about guitar first, either a riff or a chord structure. I sometimes write bass riffs first though, just depends on what I have handy. After that, I like to add in vocals. I usually go through my folder of all the lyrics I have unused and see if I can make something fit, otherwise I often put it off for later or write something on the spot. Often drums are one of the last things I add in, pretty much though when it comes to drums, I just take as much of the finished song as I have to my drummer who makes up a drum part. Very rarely do I come up with a specific drum part on my own.

I think in terms of the actual recording drums are traditionally first, because they occupy such a huge sonic area and are the rhythmic backbone of the song. However, because of the difficulties with getting a half decent drum recording (we still haven't gotten drum mics for his kit, the lazy bastard got a Wii instead.) I usually record the bass first, then rhythm guitar, then any lead guitar work, and vocals last. Of course, this all means jack because I'm horrible at recording things

Just the reverse. I usually go about writing a guitar part first, then melody/lyrics, then I present it to the band and try to communicate to the drummer tempo, accents, etc. that I'm hearing in my head.

Write the song and map it out and arrange it with a real drummer. Don't get married to any of the parts right away. I've been writing a long time and the best advice I got doing the Nashville songwriter's scene was not too get too attached to a part or a lyric, but hear the entire thing as a whole first and do what's best for the song. From your question it seems like you're writing and tracking the song at the same time. The best thing to do is work a song for weeks before you lay it down. Keep it all fluid and sing and play it on guitar or piano until you hone it in. Focus on the melody and the lyrical meaning. Once you've done that, you'll have a better feel for the kicks and the turn-arounds.

Now, when you go to produce, use a bass player and a drummer that get your stuff and tell them what and where to play. Take charge. If you track something that isn't really finished as a tune, you might feel like you're stuck with an over arressive drum part or whatever, and the song will take on a differant direction then what your original idea was. Granted, some better players can improve on your talents greatly, but they still need direction from the visionary. (Bad Spinal Tap reference, sorry)

I see cases where one has a specific drum beat in mind first and writes the song around it.