The business end...

Just lookin for some opinions here folks...

In my band, I do the following:

Book the shows

Design/print/deliver flyers

Do all our graphic work

Maintain our web presence

Handle 99.9% of the correspondence

Handle the rent and other detasils of our rehearsal space

Design the sets we play (most of the time)

Print out lyrics/tab/sheet music as needed by other members

Divide up the money at the end of the night

Arrange for lights/PA if we need it

Any press/interviews we get

Make copies of any live CDs or DVDs we might acquire

Oh, and I also manage to find the time to play drums... and sing backup LOL

I should also mention that the other guys in the band never really do any of these things... very rarely one of them might drop off flyers to a club we're playing.

So, my question is this...

Do you think I would be out of line in asking for a larger cut of the money at the end of the night?

We normally divide everything evenly 5 ways at the end of the night. But, with the added time, and EXPENSE (you don't wanna see my cell bill ) I put in, I'm beginning to feel like I should be entitled to a little extra.

Am I justified, or is my ego starting to inflate??

it depends. is your time valuable?

is the band mainly for fun or for profit? is it a profitable enterprise?

how pissed will your bandmates be if you take a bigger cut? will they even notice? (don't sneak.)

finally, is it your project? most bands have a leader who inevitably foots most of the bills. If somebody else is the leader, you're the lackey. no good.

Is my time valuable? That's all relative I think. Does my time produce results? Yes. Are they positive results? Yes. I think that might equate to valuable.

Fun or profit? Preferably a bit of both

Is it profitable? We get decent money for this area. Some make more, but a lot make less. LOL

How pissed would they be? Honestly, I don't know. A couple of them might not give a {censored}. Some might not like the idea. And with the fact that I handle the money, I doubt they would ever notice if I shorted it, but I try to run an honest ship.

Is it my project? Well, it's OUR project, but the idea of what to do is/was mine. The initial list of tunes to do is/was mine. If our band was to be said to have a "leader", it would be me.

I would say if its your band, your project,(you brought all the members together) and you like things(all the business end B.S.) done your way or atleast a certain way, and are happy to do it, then you would be entilted to a bigger cut. If they dont like the idea of loosing a % of the pay then divide up the chores.

If its not your band, and your doing all this work single-handedly? Well then I'd like to talk to you about comming to Michigan. I've got a great opportunity for you!!.

I would say if its your band, your project,(you brought all the members together) and you like things(all the business end B.S.) done your way or atleast a certain way, and are happy to do it, then you would be entilted to a bigger cut. If they dont like the idea of loosing a % of the pay then divide up the chores. If its not your band, and your doing all this work single-handedly? Well then I'd like to talk to you about comming to Michigan. I've got a great opportunity for you!! .

Funny guy!!! I have family in Michigan, and I'll pass on the {censored}ty winters y'all get up there. Just one of the many reasons I'm relocating to Texas next year...

I wouldn't be doing all this crap if it wasn't my baby... I'm sadistic, not masochistic

Also Whip,... How do I become a member of the almighty "Angry Drummers Army:mad::mad:"??? Afterall I am angry most the time. Or atleast grouchy some of the time....

it's tough if you've been doing all that stuff for free the whole time...

how long has the project been going?

screwing with the status quo can be bad for a band; musicians being the grumpy, whiny pussies that they usually are.

I guess it comes down to how much bread you're making at the gigs:

if it's beer money, don't rock the boat.

if it's gear money, think long and hard about rocking the boat.

if it's rent money, well {censored}. get paid if your extra work is that productive.

It's called "leaders" pay...usually a percentage above the total price, lopped off the top. One guy who is handling all those tasks and books the gigs can call for that. Is your name on the contract as a representative of the band? If so, you would be responsible if the band didn't show...lots of risk. Therefore, you are basically the go between, the internal "agent" or producer. Professionally speaking, you could draw leaders pay.

Trouble is if you have been doing this all along and not been paid, how do you justify the change. I would call a band meeting and explain the situation. You will either get guys saying they'll chip in now so you don't need pay, or you'll get guys who say they won't mind cause they don't want to hassle with all that other stuff.

You have the right to pay, but I'd bring it up to the group first instead of just saying "I'm doing this..."

There is no "offical" Angry Drummers Army, unlike the completely legit (yet highly high-falutin' ) Geezer's Guild, or the Flying Pedals of Doom.

It all stemmed from another thread of mine, and dammit, since I wanna belong to something, I added that to my sig.

So, long story short, you wanna be in... congrats, you're in LOL

We've been at this for a little over a year now... give or take

Depending on the gig, we make anything from beer money to rent money LOL If i had to average it, I'd say it would be in the "gear money" range

I can easily justify it... I'll bring in copies of my cell bill, receipts for ink for my printer, receipts from the place that prints our flyers, postage, etc etc etc

Not to mention that while they have become more affordable, blank disc media ain't cheap... :poke:

If you want a real headache, set up a band bank account.

gig money goes in.

cell phone money comes out. supplies come out (not drumheads, either) postage and {censored} comes out.

leave a buffer in and do monthly payouts with what's left.

If other members step up and incur some expenses, have them bring receipts.

that's fair, and less likely to rankle your mates than "I'm taking 30% off the top."

Oh man...if you're INCURRING expenses to keep the band going...by all means, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT not only for leaders pay but for total reimbursement...right off the top!

Count me in as well. My 5 year old daughter asked me today, "Daddy, why do you always look mad when you play your drums?"

It is a sticky situation Whip. What I might do would not bring up the money first. All those tasks you list, ask if anyone is willing to help with them since you are spending a ton of time with the bulk of it. Assuming they offer little, then ask about recooping your expenses from the band pay for the cell bill and the local Kinkos stuff. If you are doing all that your definitely the leader and mananger of the band. It would make perfect sense to me.

Are you seriously moving to Texas next year? What part? I was born in the great state. I guess that means the band is done next year as well?

you are a manager and a member. manager's usually get 15% cut, so, take a 15% cut.

Count me in as well. My 5 year old daughter asked me today, "Daddy, why do you always look mad when you play your drums?" It is a sticky situation Whip. What I might do would not bring up the money first. All those tasks you list, ask if anyone is willing to help with them since you are spending a ton of time with the bulk of it. Assuming they offer little, then ask about recooping your expenses from the band pay for the cell bill and the local Kinkos stuff. If you are doing all that your definitely the leader and mananger of the band. It would make perfect sense to me. Are you seriously moving to Texas next year? What part? I was born in the great state. I guess that means the band is done next year as well?

Indeed it is true, around June/July of next year we're packin up and moving to Texas... away from the BS that surrounds me here LOL

Can't say I blame you. I hate the cold weather, other than hockey. I'd love to move down South.

Maybe you could do it like this:

If gigging for 'beer money', split evenly

If gigging for substantial money, 10% off the top, then split the rest evenly

If gigging for big bucks, 15% off the top, then split the rest evenly

or something like that.

As for how to present it to the band, maybe you could come across as needing help with the expenses...you know, "Help me fellas, I'm going broke promoting the band." Maybe in lieu of taking some 'off the top', you could agree to split the costs of promotion evenly.

Just some ideas.

There is no "offical" Angry Drummers Army, unlike the completely legit (yet highly high-falutin' ) Geezer's Guild, or the Flying Pedals of Doom.

I'd take a fence to that, or even possibly a wall since I've never played the flute. BTW- You already talk like a Texan.

Be up front- but if your sinkin' your own cash into this, not to mention your time, by all means yes, you rightfully deserve a percentage or at least a reimbursement. If not I guarantee you get a resentment at some point if that account hasn't already been started. Lot's of great comments here and suggestions on possible directions to go, but I know you've heard the term "starving artist".!?!?!

Although, if you are starving, I'm sure in Texas you could start a Texas Blues / metal Band and fit in with the yokels - damn- I mean locals.

Once a band is gigging and incurring expenses it's time for a band account. Everyone who incurs expenses saves receipts and gets reimbursed. Get a feel for how much expenses you have and decide as a band how much of every gig goes straight into the account--5%, 10%, whatever. If there's money left over if the band breaks up then everyone gets an equal share. What ever has been bought with band money (such as a PA) gets sold and the proceeds divvied up.

Even small time groups like the brass quintets I've been in do this--you need a pool of "band money" to operate. Even bands working for beer money need publicity, which ain't free.

As far as your time goes, the time to set up a time/effort reimbursement schedule or percentage is at the beginning of things, not after the fact, because it will cause resentment even if it's fair. Everyone meets and agrees to it (or not) before the first gig. That doesn't help you now but it will next time.

The way I prefer to do things is:

Split the night's take up by the number of band members +2.

5 piece band, it gets split up 7 ways.

One of the extra's goes to the person who booked the show (incentive), the other goes to a shared bank account to cover strings, sticks, heads, mics, and whatever else. Should the band split up - so does the account - equally. If a member leaves or is fired, he takes with him, his % of the account.

It's simple, and fair, and gives everyone a reason to try and get the band up and running.

I forgot to mention that in "my" band(hehe) we have a $5 per member, per week dues fee, that goes towards promotional materials(banners, flyers, business cards etc). We are a fairly new band and just had our first paying gig booked yesterday, for Feb. 16th, so we havent had the issue of "leaders pay" yet. Its my wife whos been doing most/all the promo work, and in the back of my mind I've been thinking she should get a cut, but I feel it would look like her cut would be benefiting me, with her and I having relations and whatnot.

Also Whip, yes I am well aware of the thread that started the Angry Drummer Army. I am now, not so angry, almost happy to be "the second official" inducted member of the Angry Drummers Army:mad:. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!!

I forgot to mention that in "my" band(hehe) we have a $5 per member, per week dues fee, that goes towards promotional materials(banners, flyers, business cards etc). We are a fairly new band and just had our first paying gig booked yesterday, for Feb. 16th, so we havent had the issue of "leaders pay" yet. Its my wife whos been doing most/all the promo work, and in the back of my mind I've been thinking she should get a cut, but I feel it would look like her cut would be benefiting me, with her and I having relations and whatnot. Also Whip, yes I am well aware of the thread that started the Angry Drummer Army. I am now, not so angry, almost happy to be "the second official" inducted member of the Angry Drummers Army:mad: . Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!!

Get 3 quotes from places that handle promotional materials, and spell out with them exactly what your wife is doing for that quote.

The price they'll charge will be much higher than whatever figure you think your wife should get. Take those 4 $ figures to your band, and SHOW THEM that you're not only getting quality work done, but also cheaper, and if they don't want to pay your wife, then it's not getting done for free.

Pretty simple...

Delegate duties!

In my band (duo), Brendan usually books the shows and does word of mouth promotion, because he is naturally charismatic. I am droll and unexciting, so nobody gives a {censored} if I say anything.

In return, I perform recording recording tasks, provide better recording equipment, do ALL audio file prep work, maintain the MySpace site, post bulletins of our shows, and depending on the importance of the show, make "e-flyers" to post in the bulletins. Sometimes I can snag us a show, and if I do, we play it.

Or you can just tell them about doing all the work. If you do all of the work, you are entitled to more of the pay. That is fair. Splitting everything evenly is not fair.

Is your name Fitch, and do you play in a band called Griffon, by any chance?

:D :D