maz_master

Originally posted by steve10358 Honestly, it's not about that. I get people that tell me all the time they like my marshall better than my diezel. No biggie. It's just that when someone slanders the quality of a piece- NO MATTER WHO MAKES IT... well then, lets just stick with that now. I hear a lot of "comparisons" between Diezel and Boogie.... I'll tell you first hand that there is no way my Diezel's PCB is going to warp under heat and stress like my recto did. I love boogie, but its just a comparison. Once again- its not about the tonal opinion. Just the reliability facts. I would NEVER get upset because someone else has a different opinion on tone than I do. Thats why there are so many great products to begin with!! S. Well, that's what I was originally trying to say...

Originally posted by Wizard of Ozz +1 I get plenty of good sounds from mine... and I don't mean numetal or heavily downtuned sloppy chugging chordwork. Remember there was a time when George Lynch, John Petrucci, Michael Wilton (Queensryche), James/Kirk (Metallica) used these amps... and all these guys had no trouble dialing in some killer tones. Always hated Metallica and Petrucci tone. Lynch has a way of extracting good to great tone out of anything, but I don't follow him so can't connect what I've heard to what amp he was playing at the time. I know he switches it up constantly. And, BTW, somebody mentioned Foo Fighters using DRs, but the Budda site has a link to one of their official CD releases claiming they used an SD-80. So, when talking about these bands and their great tones on any given tune, I think you gotta' be careful. Most of these bands line up a studio full of amps and use different ones on different parts, as well as playing multiples simultaneously.

Originally posted by Snider Scott Henderson (Tremoverb) sounded good too! There are lots of guys who have had good sounds from the Rectos. Well, the T-Verb is a bit of an exception. My bandmate had one and got great tones out of it too, but it sounded completely different than the Dual Rectifiers of the late 90's I've played. As for Petrucci, I never like his tone either. Great shredder, but his tone never impressed me. Like I said, maybe the Series 2 units are much better.

Originally posted by Aineias I haven't read this whole thread; so my apologies if this has already been raised. It ought to be pretty obvious, but a large portion of that Diezel's massive price tag comes from the fact that it's imported from Germany, rather than made in the US like the Boogies. Here in the UK, Diezel gear costs less than a Road King and not much more than a Triple Recto. Bringing my Boogie Mark III over to the UK and changing it's transformer (for UK mains) would have doubled the price of the amp had it been a stock Mark III (the extra for the C+ Mod means that total costs have been about 1.6x the price I paid Danjovi for it). In Europe, we get screwed on Boogie prices perhaps it's poetic justice that Diezel gear in the US is about 1.5x what we would pay for it in Europe. So, ask yourselves - if you take the import duty from the proice of the Herbert (I'm not familiar with US law so I don't know the exact calue), THEN is it worth the asking price? I think a lot more of you would say yes. Alternatively, simply consider that ytou get Boogie's for about half the price we do here - so if you were in Europe, would you go with a Boogie or a Diezel? I suspect Salwender takes a pretty big cut too...that's another layer which does not exist for American-made amps.

Originally posted by Ed DeGenaro Holdsworth? Haven't heard Holdsworth play one. Any published recordings where it is known he used a Recto? Maybe he had Trace mod his too? Maybe they're incredibly picky about speakers/cabs? Maybe the "Series II" improvements fixed what I always hated about them? Hey, I'm open-minded...

Originally posted by Rufus Leaking Yup Well, then, where are those quotes? I think you're misinterpreting my challenges to the claims made by an obviously misinformed individual that the Diezel build quality is not world class as dogma regarding tone. That's not the case at all. The former is objective, the latter is not, in most cases.

Originally posted by Rufus Leaking If you're going to go on an internet forum stating it's the greatest amp ever made, does all these tones better then anything else out there, is built better then any other amp out there and anyone who doesn't love it either has tin ears or is a 16 year old kid who only likes buzz-saw tones, then yes, it might be a good idea to at least have seen one in person, let alone played one. Where did I say, "greatest amp ever made"? Right now, for me, that designation belongs to the Dr. Z Maz 18 Junior NR. Where did I say, "does all these tones better then anything else out there"? Where did I say, "built better then any other amp out there"? Where did I say, "anyone who doesn't love it either has tin ears or is a 16 year old kid who only likes buzz-saw tones"? Are you sure you're even referencing the correct thread?

Originally posted by riffy Nah, I hate sizzle too, but my Recto doesn't sizzle when I play it. Also, Gary, your playing is so damn good, you could even make a Recto sound decent. - Dave

Originally posted by riffy Nah, I hate sizzle too, but my Recto doesn't sizzle when I play it. But, does it buzz and mush out like most of those 90's rock records or have they fixed that problem?

Originally posted by Peter Diezel Hello Vid ! You are right, I don

Originally posted by Shiny_Surface Why do you care? I like to stay informed.

Originally posted by steve10358 I'm not defensive, I dont really care if you like the amp or not... but from a technical stand point, you are talking out of your ass. Chassis flex? Have you even PLAYED a diezel?? It's got thick ass aluminum w/ reinforced ends... not to mention the 1/4" of faceplate on both sides- there is ZERO chassis flex. And I am still waiting for what you didnt like about the build quality of the Diezel. You still havent given an example of a failure, or even a design flaw. I have never seen *any* amp from *any* company with a chassis that flexed when plugging into it!

Originally posted by Wizard of Ozz +1 That and downtuned to A flat 7 string numetal slop. They really can do much more.

Originally posted by danyeo Can't disagree more. The Recto was the amp of the 90's and is still the choice amp used by most popular touring rock bands. Lots of bands i don't care for use them but i have to admit i like lots of the rock tones i have heard. The Foo Fighters for example have such a ballsy in your face sound on thier records which is all Recto. If you don't like thier tone, millions of fans will disagree with you. Other bands that, to me, have gotten great tones from the Rectos are POD, Hoobastank, Tremonti, Buckethead, Incubus, Godsmack, Petrucci, Linkin Park, Nickleback, and the list goes on and on. Again, i don't really listen to all those bands often but i like lots of sounds they have. Well, that's the generation of bands that, IMO, have destroyed guitar tone....in general. It's that bulk of 90's rock tone that I'm talking about. I agree completely that the Recto created that era, but for my tastes, most of the guitar tones created during that era are just horrible, Tremonti being a perfect example! But, for some reason, the "millions of fans" you talk about (most of whom are quite young), have grown up to love those sounds! So, you're just confirming what I'm talking about. A huge mass of young players grew up with those buzzed out tones, have grown accustomed to them and have come to believe they actually sound good! I'm not condemning it. I'm just making an observation. YES, there are notable examples from that era of pretty cool tone! I won't disgaree with that at all! Some of the Nickelback and Incubus sounds great, even to my old ears. But, I'm not sure that what I've heard and liked was all created with Rectos. Also keep in mind that a LOT of these bands have dumped Mesa and are now using Diezel (and other brands), as I witnessed when seeing Godsmack on Leno recently - he had a Herbert and Splawn! (That band is absolutely talentless, BTW.)

Originally posted by Wizard of Ozz +1000 I couldn't agree more. I played a beat to {censored} Diezel thru a Mesa Recto 4X12 and it sounded like ass... blah, blah, blah. :rolleyes: Please go back to wanking out the intro to "Enter the Sandman" thru that Line 6 combo. :D As far as the Herbert sounding like a Recto, that's pretty much BS. I have a new 2006 Dual Recto stitting right next to my Herbert... they don't sound much a like at all. Can you get non-buzzy, non-mushy distortion tones out of your Recto? Maybe they've improved it since the last generation of buzzy, headbanger, modern rock records was created.

Originally posted by vidnotlaw My experience with Diezel Herbert... I owned the following amps all at the same time: Framus Cobra Mesa Road King (Voodoo Mod) Engl SE into VHT 2/50/2 Diezel Herbert Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 100 Fender Twin Reverb '65 Reissue Roland JC120 I currently own: Mesa Road King (Voodoo Mod) Engl SE into VHT 2/50/2 VHT UL Fender Twin Reverb '65 Reissue Roland JC120 Whenever I would jam or have friends over to play, I never used the Herbert. I was also in a Death Metal band at the time and used my Engl SE exclusively for that. The Herbert is a great amp, but it just lacked the high end 'sizzle' (on the gain channels) the the other amps I had at the time had. The clean channel on the Herbert was the best (compared to the high gainers), with the Framus following close behind it. Since I already own a Twin Reverb '65 Re-Issues, I didn't need the Herbert clean channel so much. But as far as the gain channel of the Herbert, I much preferred any of the other amps with the exception of the Marshall. The Herbert has PLENTY of gain on tap, but it just sounds so 'tame' (only word I can think of). It doesn't come to life and smack you in the face! The bottom end was tight and kicked hard (that was great), but the high end was not there for me. For me, the other amps sounded more 'organic' and had more 'bite' to them. The bass on my Road King (Recto) may be 'loose' to your ears, but for me it sounds more 'alive' and 'organic'. I don't 'abuse the bass on my Road King as others probably do. The Rectos already have plenty of Bass, so keep that knob relatively low. KRANK those mids and add a little high end... and "BOOM"... you have great bottem end thump and high end sizzle with smooth mids! But keep in mind mine is Voodoo Modded. By far my favororite amp is my Road King. I spent several hours comparing the Framus Cobra, Road King, Engl SE and the Herbert over a couple of days. Every time I plugged in to the Herbert after playing the others, I was left dissapointed with the gain channel. That is just my opinion though, I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE HERBERT SUCKS!!! IT IS A GREAT AMP, just not for me. By the way, it was V 2.0 and V2.5 was available for $150.00 and shipping charges both ways (US rep)... I figured I had already paid $4100.00 for the amp, I shouldn't have to pay $150.00 for the V2.5 upgrade (which from my understanding was only a few resistor/cap changes... not 100% positive though). Plus they told me they could 'fix' the high end 'issue' I was describing. I ended up selling it to a forum mate. I am not the only one that was under the same impression about the high end on this amp. I had several friends come over and compare the amps as well. We all felt the same... lack of 'sizzle'. I know of one other person on this board that has stated the same thing, but I am not going to bring them into this thread. If they choose to voice their opinion then that is their choice. Again, the Diezel Herbert is an INCREDIBLE amp with GREAT build quality... it just didn't 'do it' for me. Take care, Vid Vid, What you describe is perfectly legitimate. Personally, I don't want to much high end sizzle! Not only do I play Strats, but I find it makes distortion tones too fizzy and buzzy with any PUPs feeding it, which was my main complaint with the Road King. It was buzzy, no matter how I dialed it in. But, having Trace mod yours pretty much disqualifies it as a Mesa amp! I'm sure he turned it into a very nice-sounding amp! I'm also aware that Mesa has significantly updated the RK due to many complaints about the original, but I have not heard the updated version. Likewise, as you mentioned, the Herbert has been updated since you owned it, based on customer input. Maybe you'd love it now. Personally, I hope they didn't dial out what I loved about the earlier versions, which was the smoothness of the distortion tones and the ability to dial in very comvincing Dumble tones on Ch 3. In regards to your Herbert V2.0 complaints, how does this video of what I assume to be a V2.5 unit sound to you? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6439601805213666365&q=herbert Lastly, you mentioned death metal. I don't think the Herbert was intended for that kind of music. The tones I hear out of the Herbert seem to be perfect for just about everything except death metal. I plan to use the Herbert for blues, blues-rock, some classic rock and a little Robben Ford style fusion. Despite the constant association of Diezel amps with heavy, headbanger music, I see the Herbert, in particular, as an amp geared more for everything but that kind of music! So, when people run down to GC and plug into a Herbert, tank the mids to zero, dime the treble and bass and engage the mid cut on top of that and then say they weren't impressed, it leads me to believe that they just don't get it. If metalheads don't like this amp, I see that as a very encouraging sign! The tones that most folks go for in that genre of music really sound horrible to my ears. The "different strokes" thing... Dave

Originally posted by Rufus Leaking Have you played one yet? Do I need to play Robben Ford's Dumble to know it's an incredible amp?

Originally posted by Peter Diezel Hey Dave ! I

Originally posted by danyeo Rectos can sound like that if you dial them in that way, but they can easily sound much better. The list of pro players who get great tones from thier Rectos is a long one. I haven't heard any pro players get good tone from a Recto. That amp has brainwashed a whole generation of young players into thinking good tone is gained out fuzzy mush.

Originally posted by Peter Diezel Thanks But I assume, that thegame don

Originally posted by steve10358 One of the horrendous things about the GC/Diezel deal is the fact that countless message boards will now be littered with people that spent 2 minutes at quiet volumes and $500 credit limits that want to bash it and claim how their "X" amp smoked it. Sorry folks, but this is an amp that takes tweaking and understanding. To simply write it off as a high polished recto is bull{censored}. And it has nothing to do with the fact I own one. I could easily sell mine and be happy with my JMP... and still have the same opinions. I've lent my Herbert out to a few and everyone seems to agree that it takes a day or two to REALLY understand what it is and how to get what you need out of it. NO ONE ever said a Diezel was great because of the price. It's great because it reacts like a single channel amp, has an infinite aray of tones in it and is built like a tank. "It's not for me" posts are fine, but give the amp an honest chance, instead of having a predisposition against it. To me, anyone who simply writes insults on the price, or lame comparisons to manufacturers DOESN'T GET IT. No one ever posts a real amp review anymore. S. I'd bet my left ball that most of the negative opinions come from 16 year olds who've grown up with the mushy, fuzzy, inarticulate sound of the Rectos played by their death metal heros blasting through their parents' stereos. What can you expect?

Originally posted by J.B. When I had my '92 Recto, I compared it side by side with a friends Herbert. We played the Recto first and both thought it sounded great. Then we played and Herbert and WOW!! Then we went back to the Recto, and it didn't sound very good at all. This is the consensus among those who've played both, side by side. Personally, I've owned a Road King and, even without A/B'ing with my other amps, could not get it out of my house fast enough. What a POS.

Originally posted by Marshall Freak I've never seen anyone overseas say that. I've got a Dual Recto, and I've had two others. A friend of mine has a Herbert, and given a choice, I'd take the Herbert hands down. Nothing wrong with Rectos, but the Herbert has a Stellar Clean, great mid gain, and it kills the Rectos for high gain. Taste is subjective, and luckily for you, you have the amp you prefer. Another guy (in additon to Def_pearl_Pilot) who has ears! Thank God.

Originally posted by JimAnsell i have a friend who keeps saying "i sell all this {censored} and buy a diezel". some people think that just because its like the most expensive high gain amp out there that it is automaticly the best. i'll take my fja 5150 over any other high gain amp. when i want some other flavor, or premium cleans, i always have my piece of {censored} boogie mark IIC+ Another guy who like mush, buzz and fizz...

Originally posted by TexasDeathRide I went to the North Dallas guitar center on 75 and was able to plug in and jam on a herbert through a diezel speaker loaded 4x12. I have to say i was impressed, but not $4100 impressed. Everyone who talks about them around here is basically right. The amp sounds like a very produced high gain mesa with rectifierish sag but it still plays tighter than my triple rec. The gain on channel 3 was over the top and the mid cut put chanel three into nu metal territory instantly. I still couldn't hear anything that said, this warrants twice the price of a recto. Maybe I didn't hear it in the right space or at the right distance from the cab but I went home, cranked the recto and my gas for the herbert died. The difference? The mush, buzz and fizz of the Recto series cannot be dialed out. But, you can make the Herbert sound like anything from Robben Ford's Dumble to scooped metalhead mayhem. Plus, its clean channel puts the Rectos to shame. If you can't hear this, then you deserve the Mesa.