Members Arr0wHead Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 I've seen Jon Oliva at every TSO show I've been to. And Paul O'Neill has performed at least one song with the band at every TSO show I've seen..Neither one ever seemed to be too upset by the proceedings;) Remember, I'm speaking as a fan. Jon was also happy to give up the frontman slot in his own band and drink himself sick every night while Zach show-tuned up all his songs for him. I didn't realize he was such a big part of TSO. But it still doesn't change how I felt about that switcheroo with Christmas Eve Serajevo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donsimon76 Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 What I have read from Jon is that he loves Savatage but got tired of losing money. All of a sudden, he is doing TSO with Paul and finally making money. Which would you pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arr0wHead Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 What I have read from Jon is that he loves Savatage but got tired of losing money. All of a sudden, he is doing TSO with Paul and finally making money. Which would you pick? Jon Oliva's Pain. I bought all 4 albums and love them dearly. The two TSO I picked up sucked balls, musically. Probably why the Savatized song is their most popular to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anti-flag193 Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 I went 2 years ago. It was cool, but once was enough. The best part was when Joe Walsh came on stage and played an Encore with them for a few songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SciFiGuy Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 We're looking forward to this years show; Dec 23rd Boston. Last years show was awesome. Soaring guitars, great vocals, lasers, snow, what more could you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DFB Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 No Colorado shows this year:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psychotronic Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 I getcha, but it's like writing a song with your band, then the band has a hit with the song. Now you go join another band, and take that song with you - releasing a new version with the new band that is so close to the original that people don't know it's two different bands/songs. Seems sketchy. However I understand that the song was never actually MEANT to be a Savatage tune. I just feel like once it WAS, it should have stayed that way. Look in this very thread, at the people that expected TSO to be much heavier and more rock oriented after hearing just that tune on the radio.I didn't realize that Oliva was getting bank from TSO, as he doesn't tour with them and I didn't know their arrangement. But I went from elation that first winter when all the pop stations were playing SAVATAGE to utter disappointment the following year when it was re-recorded and released as a TSO tune.And while it's well known that Paul wrote the musical that became "streets" and the title and a few tracks on "Gutter Ballet", It was Jon's voice and Criss's guitars that made those albums amazing. The writing itself, sadly, turned off quite a few fans. I loved those two albums, but the stuff afterwards was terrible. Even with better vocals, fancier writing, and better musicians, the newer stuff was terrible. I just see TSO as a further extension of this. And when I heard Christmas Eve Sarajevo (a unique orchestral ARRANGEMENT, not a "cover" per se) on the radio I thought it was a sign of a big comeback for the band. Instead, it seemed to have been the final nail in the coffin. I hear you, and you have a point. If memory serves, though, they didn't re-record it for TSO, it's the same version. By the end of Savatage, it was the Paul and Jon show (like it or not) and, really -- TSO IS the Paul and Jon show, and the point was to be able to release stuff and tour under a different banner that was more easily marketable to a wider audience, and still employ the Savatage team. Mission accomplished. They're good people, and I'm just glad they all have a steady gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psychotronic Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 I went 2 years ago. It was cool, but once was enough. The best part was when Joe Walsh came on stage and played an Encore with them for a few songs. Yep, I was there too and he was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psychotronic Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Remember, I'm speaking as a fan. Jon was also happy to give up the frontman slot in his own band and drink himself sick every night while Zach show-tuned up all his songs for him. I didn't realize he was such a big part of TSO. But it still doesn't change how I felt about that switcheroo with Christmas Eve Serajevo. Zack is a good guy, and an excellent singer. But, remember, when it comes to Sav and TSO -- Paul calls the shots. Every guitar solo, every vocal is done to his vision, so if you don't like the way it's done, put more of the blame on Paul than Zack. I thought he did a great job singing Oliva's tunes pretty closely. Watch the Live In Japan show from the mid-90's, Zack sounds like Jon when necessary. "Hall of the Mtn. King" is a good example, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bilbo71070 Posted December 5, 2012 Members Share Posted December 5, 2012 They're going to be here on the 26th. For a Christmas show. Taking the family to see this show. Can't wait! Have wanted to see this for years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arr0wHead Posted December 5, 2012 Members Share Posted December 5, 2012 Zack is a good guy, and an excellent singer. But, remember, when it comes to Sav and TSO -- Paul calls the shots. Every guitar solo, every vocal is done to his vision, so if you don't like the way it's done, put more of the blame on Paul than Zack. I thought he did a great job singing Oliva's tunes pretty closely. Watch the Live In Japan show from the mid-90's, Zack sounds like Jon when necessary. "Hall of the Mtn. King" is a good example, IMO. How does Paul call the shots in Savatage? Jeff Plate fit Savatage. Zach didn't. He might be nice. Jon, at the time, wasn't. Still preferred Jon. No, sorry, Zach cannot sound like Jon. Not in WW, C2C, MOG, or Savatage. It's not his style, and he's an accomplished singer in his own right. Same way that Alex Skolnick isn't Criss. Amazing guitarist, but things weren't the same... Jon, by all definitions, is a TERRIBLE singer. But he's one of a kind, and incredibly emotional. Even with Jon Oliva's Pain, he manages to make lyrics leap out and actually mean something. Which, I believe, is why Jon and Paul was like Elton/Bernie on Gutter/Streets. My question for you is: What involvement does Jon have with TSO? What involvement does Paul have with JOP? Does he write any of that stuff? Still trying to understand who's involved in what. Until this thread I had no idea Jon was involved in TSO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members razordave Posted December 5, 2012 Members Share Posted December 5, 2012 I was going to go (Dec 8th). But, I found out that Brian Setzer is coming the following week. Having seen TSO 2 years ago, I opted to spend my money on the decidely lo-tech Brian Setzer Christmas concert. Wish I could afford both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stumpy Joe Posted December 5, 2012 Members Share Posted December 5, 2012 Saw them for the first time ever last Thursday. Great show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psychotronic Posted December 7, 2012 Members Share Posted December 7, 2012 How does Paul call the shots in Savatage?Jeff Plate fit Savatage. Zach didn't. He might be nice. Jon, at the time, wasn't. Still preferred Jon. No, sorry, Zach cannot sound like Jon. Not in WW, C2C, MOG, or Savatage. It's not his style, and he's an accomplished singer in his own right. Same way that Alex Skolnick isn't Criss. Amazing guitarist, but things weren't the same...Jon, by all definitions, is a TERRIBLE singer. But he's one of a kind, and incredibly emotional. Even with Jon Oliva's Pain, he manages to make lyrics leap out and actually mean something. Which, I believe, is why Jon and Paul was like Elton/Bernie on Gutter/Streets. My question for you is: What involvement does Jon have with TSO? What involvement does Paul have with JOP? Does he write any of that stuff? Still trying to understand who's involved in what. Until this thread I had no idea Jon was involved in TSO. After Criss died, Jon kind of lost interest in the band (understandable). That's why he left to start Dr. Butcher with Caffery -- he didn't want to do Savatage without his brother. Once Criss died, Paul kind of took over and kept the band going. Not in a bad way, mind you, it's just that he felt the band could and should do more. Without Criss -- who clearly was a huge part of the bands sound -- the vision of the band sort of went in the direction Paul wanted to go in. So, instead of the music being Jon and Criss, it became Jon and Paul. I think Jon maybe lost a certain amount of drive/ambition, and it left the door open for Paul to take over (again -- in a positive way). Once Jon left, it was ALL Paul. I do, however, think Paul liked it better with Jon there and was more than happy for him to come back when he did. I'll give you another example -- the "Wake of Magellan" album. I personally think it's a great album, but YMMV. Does it sound like classic 'Tage? Probably not. Paul kind of has his own sound that gets mixed in with which ever band he's working with. However -- the concept, the album cover art, a lot of the music and lyrics -- all Paul. But, without Criss, they could never really go back to the classic Savatage sound, and they knew it. That lineup could not have been better -- Pitrellli and Caffery on guitars? Awesome combination of two very different players. Plate, as you said, is awesome. Middleton was always a solid player. Zach and Jon together? I thought that was pretty cool, too. At the same time, Paul and Jon perhaps knew they running out of time with Savatage, and TSO was a way for them to explore the things they couldn't do with the band, but still use the same players. I still believe that that concept alone is brilliant. And, again, it keeps these guys working. Just wait until "Streets" hits Broadway. I agree about Jon as a vocalist. Let me tell you, the guy has a very powerful voice. And yeah, Skolnick was not the right guy for that gig, and I think everyone knew it, including Alex. But, when Paul likes you, you're in for life as he is a very loyal and generous guy -- which is why Alex had the gig in TSO. Jon is a part of the TSO machine and does write for it. Paul has no involvement in JOP, AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Just saw them last night with my wife. It was a really amazing show! Top-notch players, very cool light/laser show, and pyrotechnics like a KISS concert. Stamp of approval for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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