Members rustypickup Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Lol what is this bull{censored} about permanent hearing loss. For God's sake, he's 16 there is no way it is permanent damage from one gig. There may be an underlying infection or problem in the ear but there is absolutely no way a 16 year old could have permanent hearing damage from one gig. If it still bothers you go to a doctor or ear specialist but I wouldn't worry about it too much, I know a number of musicians in their 50's & 60's who have played in loud bands their entire life and do not have hearing problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by rustypickup Lol what is this bull{censored} about permanent hearing loss. For God's sake, he's 16 there is no way it is permanent damage from one gig. There may be an underlying infection or problem in the ear but there is absolutely no way a 16 year old could have permanent hearing damage from one gig. Im sorry, but you are greatly misinformed. The level of what he is experiencing now will definitely subside, but not completely. He probably wont notice that it hasnt subsided completely, but thats the way it works. Hearing loss is cumulative. Think of it as the finish on your guitar. You might take some minor scrapes on it, that dont wear it down to the wood, but the point is, with each scrape its getting weaker and weaker and closer to bare wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rustypickup Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Cumulative: "increasing or enlarging by successive addition; acquired by or resulting from accumulation." If he keeps this kind of noise up then yes, over a period of time he may encounter some hearing damage. But from playing ONE loud gig I find it impossible that someones ears could be damaged permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by rustypickup If he keeps this kind of noise up then yes, over a period of time he may encounter some hearing damage. But from playing ONE loud gig I find it impossible that someones ears could be damaged permanently. HA, what do you believe then? That there is some magical number or threshold that your body stores in itself before the damage is permanent? The human ear is NOT designed to be exposed to incredibly loud sounds for any period of time. ANYTHING that makes your ears ring has DAMAGED your hearing.ALL hearing damage is PERMANENT, ERGO his hearing damage IS PERMANENT by definition. Now if you want argue at this point, considering it was just one occurence that it probably is not measurable damage, I will grant you that possibility, HOWEVER it is IN FACT damaged. This is not up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rustypickup Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Ok calm down, this is a discussion forum for discussion, no need to get fired up.Originally posted by No Soul Think of it as the finish on your guitar.You might take some minor scrapes on it, that dont wear it down to the wood, but the point is, with each scrape its getting weaker and weaker and closer to bare wood. If you want to think of it this way then thats fine, but the difference between a guitar and a human body part is that guitars don't have the ability to heal themselves over a period of time. Think of it as a bruised leg, if you bruise it once or cut it then it will heal over time, but if you expose it to abuse over and over again then the damage will accumulate and obviously in the long run you could have nerve/bloodflow problems ie. permanent damage.I'm not disputing the fact that this is bad for his ear, all I'm saying is there is no need for people to post replies saying:"You might be lucky and your hearing will recover" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Estebum Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 C'mon you're arguing semantics fellas. Hearing damage is cumulative, and thus "permanent". It doesn't repair itself. But the muffled sound you hear after playing your first massively loud gig/practice/etc, will go away soon, unless it's caused by something else. That would be a funky coincidence, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by Estebum C'mon you're arguing semantics fellas. its not semantics, its just that Rusty cant seem to diferentiate symptoms VS affliction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rustypickup Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by No Soul its not semantics, its just that Rusty cant seem to diferentiate symptoms VS affliction Yep you're right, it's probably permanent damage that I'll never recover from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fred5 Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by No Soul HA, what do you believe then?That there is some magical number or threshold that your body stores in itself before the damage is permanent? The human ear is NOT designed to be exposed to incredibly loud sounds for any period of time. ANYTHING that makes your ears ring has DAMAGED your hearing.ALL hearing damage is PERMANENT, ERGO his hearing damage IS PERMANENT by definition. Now if you want argue at this point, considering it was just one occurence that it probably is not measurable damage, I will grant you that possibility, HOWEVER it is IN FACT damaged.This is not up for debate. I just want to confirm that this information is - as far as I know - correct. This part is what I would like all musicians to really store in their minds: "The human ear is NOT designed to be exposed to incredibly loud sounds for any period of time. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonJohnson Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 I started doing the earplug thing a while ago and I'm really surprised now at how loud gigs can get. Quality earplugs aren't that expensive these days and they are designed for musicians. There is a huge difference between an earplug and a bit of toilet paper in your ear!Mine even have adjustable filters so you can choose the amount of sound reduction and they only cost me about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ozzyozb Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by No Soul I was born slightly hard of hearing, 10 years of punk clubs, and fullstacks has definitely not helped that. Get earplugs, any kind. It doesent matter. Nevermind not being able to hear other people, you get used to it, and it beats not hearing at all. On the other hand, was it Gary Moore who said "Tinitus just means you always have something to tune your guitar to"? I had to laugh at the Tinitus Joke...but no joke...its hell haveing ringing in your ears....I went years without wearing ear protection...that and working in machine shops....I now have severe ringing at all times...I always have to have some kind of sound in the room with me.....if not the ringing will drive you crazy......at night I have a fan running to block it out somewhat but its only minimal....if I could give any advice to any of you it would be were a good set of earplugs...you don't get a second chance with ear damage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoosBros Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 hearing protection is highly reccommended from the beginning,,,because permanent loss starts occurring from the very FIRST EXPOSURE TO OVERLY LOUD SOUNDS,,,, the measure of the AMOUNT of damage is cummulative over a period of time,,and believe me,, it sucks to have permanent tinitis..like I do.....most club bands play much, much louder than big arena acts on stage,,,and especially during rehearsals...when it's totally unecessary... and are damaging their hearing everytime they play... permanently......times have changed,, and the idea of volume, liability, and damage to the audience's hearing is a huge legal factor now in major venues,,, and there are mandated guidelines for max SPL that the SRO companies have to conform too when providing the sound for the venues.........get earplugs of ANY type,,,and USE them,,,, when you're 50,, you'll be very glad you did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dinrodef Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 I've got tinitus too... but I don't know if its from playing music The ringing gets worse if I drink caffeine or if my stress is high. Also, some researchers are starting to think that there might be a connection between cell phone use and tinitis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dinrodef Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by No Soul On the other hand, was it Gary Moore who said "Tinitus just means you always have something to tune your guitar to"? Thats too funny!I could probably set the pitch control on my fuzz factory to match my tinitis ringing Maybe that's not so funny after all.. oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ozzyozb Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by dinrodef I've got tinitus too... but I don't know if its from playing musicThe ringing gets worse if I drink caffeine or if my stress is high.Also, some researchers are starting to think that there might be a connection between cell phone use and tinitis I don't know Ive never used a cell phone and I have it bad:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sex Machine Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 ringin in the ears is fungives me something to do when im all alone sorry but unless you have an amazing set up or you are literally maxed out you most likely dont have permanent hearing damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members F-holes Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Hearing loss is sort of like the flu, in that once you begin to show symptoms it's already too late to do anything.Everyone claiming it all goes back to normal doesn't realize that the first frequencies to be affected will be the ones that are 14K and higher. Only a hearing test can show how mucked up your hearing may really be. Drummers often experience something called 'cymbal haze',. It show up on tests as slight dips in perception of those frequencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ZigZagWanderer Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 I started losing hearing in my right ear several years ago. I was really, really bummed out, because I was always pretty careful about wearing earplugs and/or playing at lower volumes. And I haven't been to that many shows. Sure, I've been exposed to some loud sound, but nothing like a lot of posters in this thread. It turns out that I was suffering from genetic hearing loss--"otosclerosis" (or something like that). I just found this out a little while ago. Basically, the little bones between the eardrum and the hearing nerve had grown together, so the sound wasn't being transmitted properly. This is supposedly correctable. I'm about to schedule surgery for it--the Doc says I can get "most" of my hearing back. The procedure is called a stapedectomy. You're probably too young to have this happen, but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dougy Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by dinrodef Don't get too worried yet I had the same problem back when I was 25... went in for a hearing test and scored almost perfect. THe doctor said there was nothing wrong. It still scared me... now I always use earplugs. I had a hearing test a few years ago, and was told that I had 'better than perfect hearing'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members buddastrat Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by Alchemist yep, you damaged your hearing, sucks dont it? next time be smart and wear ear plugs, I even wear them when practicing louder in my house, and wear them all the time when I drum... what you are feeling now will probably go away soon, but you will still have permanent damage I wore ear plugs at gigs using a half stack, in my twentys and then went to a 2x12 in my 30's, and still ended up with bad tinnitus. When God made us, I guess he didn't think about Marshalls at the time.Plugs help but are not that great. If you are going to play in a loud band, you can pretty much guarantee you will lose and damage your hearing no matter what.Also tinnitus sucks. It NEVER leaves you, you can't turn it off. Extreme cases where people have commited suicide over it. I'm actually worried about playing in a band again. ANY band. it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by One-armed Alec If symptoms persist, and it's worrying you, you should go to see a doctor. As I understand it, occasions when you subject your ears to excessive sound levels will have an accumulative permanent detrimental effect on your hearing. However, what you could be experiencing is a period of short-term trauma, after a particularly OTT night by the sounds of it. Hopefully, these symptoms will subside, given time - but it's bound to have some effect in the long term (hopefully nothing too serious). In future, why not do yourself a favour and keep the volumes at a reasonable level? I remember when I was your age, I thought that power and volume were everything. Trust me - it ain't big, it ain't tough, it ain't impressive, and it ain't clever. Your audience will appreciate not being deafened too. This is your body's way of telling you to ease off a bit . Hope everything works out OK for you. That's true, regarding the short term "blast" recovery issue. The phenomenon is called "temporary threshold shift". http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Threshold_Shift.htmlUnfortunately, your hearing won't necessarily come back all the way to baseline. And that amount that you don't recover is cumulative, so with repeated injury you become progressively more deaf.I'd give it a month before worrying too much. You'll probably be notiocably better in several days ( I hope...).Start wearing Hear-o's or other hearing protectors if you HAVE to play very loud (you probably don't).If your hearing problems persist, consider getting an audiology screening test. That way you'll have a an objective baseline for comparison if your hearing worsens in the future.Interesting reading:http://www.fda.gov/fdac/reprints/ots_ears.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pretaanluxis Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 I've got a loud buzzing in my ears when I go to bed at night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by Estebum C'mon you're arguing semantics fellas.Hearing damage is cumulative, and thus "permanent". It doesn't repair itself. But the muffled sound you hear after playing your first massively loud gig/practice/etc, will go away soon, unless it's caused by something else. That would be a funky coincidence, I think. Permanent hearing damage can certanly occur in one episode.It does not have to be cumulative (if n=1), although cumulative hearing damage is probably the most common type among rock musicians. All cumulative hearing damage is permanent (probably, barring cochlear transplants or some future bionics device), but NOT all permanent hearing damage is cumulative (unless you count the first episode as a "cumulation"). Pete Townshend attributes much of his hearing loss to a single blast episode in which drummer Keith Moon rigged his drum kit with explosives. Not semantics, but differential diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Karma1 Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 I agree with those who say to get your hearing checked out. Doing damage to your hearing is no joke. I had never had any problems with my hearing, then one night after attending a very loud concert, I left with my ears ringing and it hasn't stopped over three years later. It's like being in a room with a tea kettle going 24 hours a day. You can make jokes about Tinnitus, but if it happens to you, believe me, you won't be laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Originally posted by Dougy I had a hearing test a few years ago, and was told that I had 'better than perfect hearing'..... It's kinda cool to know that they have tested God's ears and found that yours were better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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