What happens when the pioneers of Rock are dead and gone?

[fretmonster]

 

Originally posted by kwoods First post everybody! Hey thanks for the welcome in advance. But to the point; I'm 45 years old and I remember the days of classic rock as far back as the 60's. And guess what.....back in day the local radio stations were clueless and sucked! Other than the Beatles and Stones, it was bubblegum all the way. My point is that it sucked!, So get with the times everybody! I would suggest XM and/or Cirrius (sp?) radio for starters. If you can't find something on the satelite, log on and get music on line. If you can't find music in this day in age, you're either; A ) Stuck in the past; or B )To {censored}ing lazy to pursue decent music, or C) All of the above. In my opinion, today's classic rock bands of the future are groups like; TOOL Mudvayne Dave Matthews TOOL System of A Down Deftones Marilyn Manson Jane's Addiction Soil Damageplan (RIP Dime) Soulhat Foo Fighters STP Alice In Chains Metallica Stained Pearl Jam Tantric Red Hot Chili Peppers Adema Smashing Pumpkins Ishia Godsmack U2 Nine Inch Nails 3 Doors Down Killswitch Engage Soundgarden Ozz Fest up and Comers A Perfect Circle The Mars Volta Etc., etc., etc., I could go on and on. The fact is that with all of the media oulets today and virtually unlimited choices via the internet, if you haven't found something new, in addition to your classic rock that the passing you lament, you're just a lazy ass history mo fo that deserves to be living in the past. Quit yer whining and shut the hell up.

 

 

Man you're a real hard ass aren't ya? I mistakenly thought people were entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately you've taken mine and miserably distorted it. I didn't say there wasn't any good music coming out today, or that I didn't listen to contemporary music. There is and I do. However, it is my "opinion" that the sixties, seventies was a renaissance of original inspiring and edifying music. Not just the Stones and the Beatles but other "bubblegum bands" like Cream, Hendrix, The Grateful Dead, The Mothers of Invention, The Doors, Credence, Butterfield Blues Band, The Who, Santana, The Mothers of Invention, Country Joe, Canned Heat, Quiksilver, Jefferson Airplane, etc. etc. were not only crafting very original styles, but were creating something new and original from the collective springs of blues, folk, country and jazz. In my opinion the results were consistently amazing, and like the bluesmen before them these pioneers are a national treasure. I'm glad to hear you have XM and Cirrius now, because apparently you didn't have access to FM radio in your youth.

 

Most the people I know have grown out of metal by the time they reach your age, but hey who am I to judge. If Tool, NIN, Marilyn Manson, Metallica and Damageplan are your idea of sophisticated Rock so be it. Far be it for me to tell you to quit your whining and shut the hell up.

[Steve Matthews]

 

Originally posted by fretmonster I'm an old geezer that loves that old time blues and rock and roll. IMO most of the newer stuff just doesn't hold a candle to the classic stuff on the inspiration or execution side. Over the weekend my wife and I went to see Felix Cavalieres Rascals and Chuck Negron of Three Dog Night and were blown away. The Rascals are a band that I've always admired and never seen, but like alot of Dinosaur Rockers out there, Felix has replaced his band with younger accomplished musicians. Not only did they cover their own material with aplomb, but mined many classics such as Black Magic Woman and Whole lotta Love and just kicked ass. I'm not a big Three Dog Night fan and think songs like One Man Band should be laid to rest for time and all eternity, but Chuck is an extremely talented singer and also had a crack band. In the last few years I've seen shows by Deep Purple and Thin Lizzy, Crazy Horse, Eric Burden and the new Animals, The Association, Jefferson Starship, Skynard and ZZ Top, Dave Mason and even Gerry and the Pacemakers. You know what, they were all great IMO. I mean its not Pro basketball, Andres Segovia played into his ninetys, Les Paul is still playin circles around pros 60 years younger, and these guys have the luxury of having awesome libraries of inspired music to choose from. So I get home from the show and turn on Saturday Night Live. On Weekend Update there's a picture of Keith and Mick (Stones) with the tag line "The California Raisons are preparing for their next tour". Is there no respect? I mean I'll bet Segovia never had to put up with that {censored}.

 

 

Being 48 I agree with you 100%.

 

When I was growing up, rock was competing with MOR music (middle of the road). That music was eventually pushed out of existence by Rock and Roll music and I was happy about that. But with the progress we also lost a lot of beautiful orchestral and ballad music when that MOR stuff died off. I'm not embarrassed to admit that one of my all time favorite songs is "Theme from A Summers Place". It's a beautiful melody and composition.

 

A little bit of MOR is still produced for the movies, but not as much. Movies rely more heavily these days on using existing songs for soundtracks.

 

But at least back then the Rock and Roll music could still be beautiful or moving in some emotional way other than the current penchant for narcissistic angst that is now blown our way with molten amps, flesh piercings and tatoos.

 

But unfortunately, the old acts are already dead. My favorite band is the Rolling Stones, but they are now nothing more than just a cover band for the Rolling Stones. I think Keith is still Keith, but Mick turned into Olivia Newton John. He wants to get physical instead of in the satanic groove that used to be the inspiration of the Stones. I can understand that, if they kept up their ways, they'd be dead.

 

So assuming that these bands are really already DOA, what you'll get is what you've got.

 

But maybe once the icons of the pioneers of rock have physically perished, then maybe the youth can pick up the torch and genre instead of focusing on the anithesis.

 

Your list makes me kick myself in the ass again because Eric Burdon was just playing within 8 miles of my house back in June and I missed them. d'oh!

[walt0915]

Originally posted by fretmonster Man you're a real hard ass aren't ya? I mistakenly thought people were entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately you've taken mine and miserably distorted it. I didn't say there wasn't any good music coming out today, or that I didn't listen to contemporary music. There is and I do. However, it is my "opinion" that the sixties, seventies was a renaissance of original inspiring and edifying music. Not just the Stones and the Beatles but other "bubblegum bands" like Cream, Hendrix, The Grateful Dead, The Mothers of Invention, The Doors, Credence, Butterfield Blues Band, The Who, Santana, The Mothers of Invention, Country Joe, Canned Heat, Quiksilver, Jefferson Airplane, etc. etc. were not only crafting very original styles, but were creating something new and original from the collective springs of blues, folk, country and jazz. In my opinion the results were consistently amazing, and like the bluesmen before them these pioneers are a national treasure. I'm glad to hear you have XM and Cirrius now, because apparently you didn't have access to FM radio in your youth. Most the people I know have grown out of metal by the time they reach your age, but hey who am I to judge. If Tool, NIN, Marilyn Manson, Metallica and Damageplan are your idea of sophisticated Rock so be it. Far be it for me to tell you to quit your whining and shut the hell up.

 

Now fretmonster, don't hurt him, he don't know what he's sayin' ...

 

Aw chuck it, let's kick is tail!

 

 

I'm in there with ya buddy - and I even LIKE Tool and an number of other bands on his list.

 

Walt

[fretmonster]

LOL Walt. But hey don't sugar coat it. That was a little cruel I suppose. Hell, I even like some stuff that might be considered metal - Zep and Sabbath of course, Tito and Tarantula and I love Pearl Jams 10 album. I just don't like the idea of somebody comin along and tryin to impose their values on me. My post was an opinion, and I respect other people's opinions as long as they don't disparage mine. I just think that whether you like the classics or not, if you play in that vein, there is a debt of gratitude

 

Interesting and candid post Steve, and I agree good music is good music regardless where it comes from.

[kwoods]

"Man you're a real hard ass aren't ya? I mistakenly thought people were entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately you've taken mine and miserably distorted it. I didn't say there wasn't any good music coming out today, or that I didn't listen to contemporary music. There is and I do. However, it is my "opinion" that the sixties, seventies was a renaissance of original inspiring and edifying music. Not just the Stones and the Beatles but other "bubblegum bands" like Cream, Hendrix, The Grateful Dead, The Mothers of Invention, The Doors, Credence, Butterfield Blues Band, The Who, Santana, The Mothers of Invention, Country Joe, Canned Heat, Quiksilver, Jefferson Airplane, etc. etc. were not only crafting very original styles, but were creating something new and original from the collective springs of blues, folk, country and jazz. In my opinion the results were consistently amazing, and like the bluesmen before them these pioneers are a national treasure. I'm glad to hear you have XM and Cirrius now, because apparently you didn't have access to FM radio in your youth.

 

Most the people I know have grown out of metal by the time they reach your age, but hey who am I to judge. If Tool, NIN, Marilyn Manson, Metallica and Damageplan are your idea of sophisticated Rock so be it. Far be it for me to tell you to quit your whining and shut the hell up."

 

 

It's a little dissapoining that you pick 5 bands from a list that I consider very diverse, and hammer me for being into nothing but metal. And yes, I do consider those bands "sophisticated". Grab a guitar and try to learn some of that stuff and I bet you would agree. In fact, from the era you are so stuck in, I would say that if you want to label bands "sophisticated, shouldn't you be talking about bands like Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Yes, Jethro Tull, and King Crimson, perhaps? Maybe not, they were labled that awful "prog-rock" in certain circles. I bet you may have heard the term "prog-rock" a few times, right?

 

Anyhow, from the same list, I guess it also helps to selectively ignore; A Perfect Circle, U2 and Dave Matthews, to prop up an invalid point. Have you ever listened to any of these bands? Some very melodic music that I doubt a reasonable person would label as "metal". I guess my grandmother would....or maybe someone deperately clinging to the 60's. Anyhow, judging by your comments, you probably never listened to anything on my list, much less own any of it. But I digress.

 

Now, on the other side, I go back a little further than FM. I was 4 years old when the Beatles came along, and I would play their 45rpm's on the record player. The kind of record player that was all in one box...felt turntable, big bulky needle arm that was made of some bakelite plastic...remember those? I could identify the Beatles records because before Apple, they were on Capital. The label was yellow and orange and would make the cool swirly pattern when they turned. I bet you remember that, right? Yeah, I go waaay back.

 

But that's a great list you put up. I've owned records by most of those bands, and had the pleasure of seeing a lot of them live...25-30 years ago. Oh, Santana is a regular through these parts and I caught his act again about 3 years ago. In the same vein, I try to catch the Allman Brothers about every 3rd year of their annual swing through. Jethro Tull toured 6 or7 yars ago and put on a great show...almost as good as The Passion Play tour I attended in the early 70's. Canned Heat and Quicksilver are good ones also...I saw them at a 24 hour Fest in a since torn down minor league baseball stadium in about 1970 I think it was. Of course Zappa was great...saw him and The Mothers with Leon Russel in about 1973 if my memory serves me correctly....it was a long time ago. How about Leon Russell...do you like Leon? He did alot of covers, but he put his own twist on things. He covered the best version of Jumpin Jack Flash in my opinion, and anybody that disagrees is an asshole! (kidding). Just as a sidebar, and back to Zappa, the press Frank used to get from the establishment really reminds me of the things people are saying about the aggressive young talented bands today. Now Frank is considered "classic rock". Wherever he is, he must be eating that up. The irony! Oh, I don't want to leave out Hendrix! Wow, how the establihment used to just trash him at the time. "A freak from outer space with a guitar that sounds like an airplane crash!" That is just too similar to the mainstream popular music press, and old, old, school reaction I hear about the great guitar work and music of say... TOOL for example. Just to clarify, I'm not putting Adam Jones in Hendrix' league in rock history just yet, but he is totally unique and iventive in his playing. Just wanted to establish that up front. People tend to latch onto any little thing and make hay. But ah, the irony of it all.

 

But I think you missed my point completely on the bubblegum reference. I'm talking about BEFORE FM became the dominate media source.

 

We had one "rock" station on the AM dial, and it was a steady diet of Dave Clark 5, The Monkeys, and just the worst of the cornball top 40 pop music in the mid to late 60's. And just to pacify the listeners with a hint of musical taste, just a smattering of the Stones and Beatles, and maybe the Byrds on a good day. Come to think of it, why did you leave The Byrds off your list...remember The Byrds? I still love McGuinn and that 12 string Rick to this day. The opening bars of 8 Miles High still give me goosebumps. And guess what? They play all this stuff on certain XM channels...isn't that groovey man?. Back to the point. Of course all of the great bands you mention were right in their heyday, but if you weren't in the largest markets, you didn't have FM radio and were {censored} out of luck. We used to have to scam record company mail orders just to have albums to listen to. Isn't that sad? But my main point is that my reference to XM and satelite radio and the internet is that it's damn near identical to what FM was in the 60's. Finally, some new music by young crazed rockers...which in not dissimilar to when The Who, Zappa, Zeppelin, etc., etc.....were breaking out on FM. The situation is damn near identical. Do you get my point now? I think it's a pretty good overall analogy.

 

Oh well I've rambled on enough about it, and hopefully I've clarified my point a little. There just ain't no sense in whipping this dead horse any more for me tonight.

 

Hey, hey, it's only rock and roll.....

[fretmonster]

Kwoods, your initial post seemed so hateful - and you are obviously a very reasonable human being? Must a caught you on a bad day. In any event, I agree, we certainly misinterpreted each other. You seem to be about as ecclectic as I am.

 

And I can understand a certain resentment towards the classic artists when other well-deserved artists never get their just due, although I don't believe that is necessarily the reason for that.

 

Just to clarify my position further, I didn't mean to denigrate all of todays artists, but I don't feel the evolution theory holds up well when talking rap, hip hop and other so-called dance grooves. And I must admit, most of todays so-called metal is lost on me - a lot of indistinguishable angry noise out there. I briefly got into Soundgarden, Alice in Chains and Metallica but it wore on me real fast. Ministry was the only concert I ever ran out of (went to see opener L7). (BTW, I love U2 and Janes Addiction). Some of the other contemporary artists I like are The Sadies, Los Lonely Boys, Dave Alvin, Shroud of Lowell, The Stills, Luna and Radiohead. Glad we had this opportunity to get acquainted. No hard feelings, Peace, How

[Shocker]

 

Originally posted by fretmonster Just to clarify my position further, I didn't mean to denigrate all of todays artists, but I don't feel the evolution theory holds up well when talking rap, hip hop and other so-called dance grooves. And I must admit, most of todays so-called metal is lost on me - a lot of indistinguishable angry noise out there. I briefly got into Soundgarden, Alice in Chains and Metallica but it wore on me real fast. Ministry was the only concert I ever ran out of (went to see opener L7). (BTW, I love U2 and Janes Addiction). Some of the other contemporary artists I like are The Sadies, Los Lonely Boys, Dave Alvin, Shroud of Lowell, The Stills, Luna and Radiohead. Glad we had this opportunity to get acquainted. No hard feelings, Peace, How

 

If you think rap, hip hop and dance music haven't evolved, you obviously haven't been listening.

 

//S

[kwoods]

"Kwoods, your initial post seemed so hateful - and you are obviously a very reasonable human being? Must a caught you on a bad day. In any event, I agree, we certainly misinterpreted each other. You seem to be about as ecclectic as I am."

 

 

To be perfectly honest, I was dog drunk when I entered this conversation a couple of days ago. I apologise If I offended.

 

This issue just touches a nerve with me. I am surrounded by people...in most cases people I like, who are just stuck in whatever musical genre that happened to be in vogue while they were in high school.

 

It really frustrates me sometimes. I guess it goes with the territory if you consider yourself a maker of music rather than a typical consumer. It seems we have more in common than our differences, but that's usually the case in my experience.

 

All is well, and after reading your additional comments I feel a greater respect for your opinion. Awwwww.....group hug everybody!!!

 

kwoods

[jjpistols]

To whoever implied that tattoos keep you from producing quality rock n roll - you are a dummy.

 

I'm not even gonna dig back through it, you know who you are. You're the dummy.

[fretmonster]

Originally posted by kwoods It really frustrates me sometimes. I guess it goes with the territory if you consider yourself a maker of music rather than a typical consumer. It seems we have more in common than our differences, but that's usually the case in my experience. All is well, and after reading your additional comments I feel a greater respect for your opinion. Awwwww.....group hug everybody!!! kwoods

 

Likewise, and you're right it's frustrating sometimes being an artist and an appreciator of art. Do you know how many bands I've seen over the years that IMO were incredibly gifted, fade away into obscurity with little or no recognition? It is frustrating at times making and or supporting art. Stay Cool, How

[jos]

You know one reason why no one disrepected Segovia the way they disrepect the Stones? Because Segovia never did a tour sponsored by a mortgage company.

[Imthere]

 

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jos wrote:

 

You know one reason why no one disrepected Segovia the way they disrepect the Stones? Because Segovia never did a tour sponsored by a mortgage company.

---

 

Segovia's tours were sponsored by mortgage company CEOs