Members Basilsfawlt Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 Given the choice between the Mapex Orion, the Tama starclassic,and the Premier artist, can anyone offer the best bang for the buck? It seems that the Premier and the Mapex are the most cost effective at 6ply maple shells. I want a responsive kit for recording that can sound great with minimal maintenance. It is going to be a studio kit so gigging is not an issue. I have cymbals taken care of. Please assist and perhaps if you need recording help I can return the favor. Thanks, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 Premier hardware needs frequent maintenence/tightening. I don't know the Mapex, but I've owned two Tama sets and the hardware is second to none (a major consideration if more than one drummer is involved). They have a "tight" sound, to my ears. Very "predictable" for recording purposes, IMO. Nice seeing you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 I'll add that Yamahas are good also. Long time favorite of the studio greats. But then isn't everything they make good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elimin8r Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 tama tama tama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HulkBlood01 Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 Originally posted by elimin8r tama tama tama lol....... if i was given the chance, i'd take the starclassic. A friend of mine's got em, sound good and look amazing. ...its not like i'm biased or anything either... tama tama tama ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 My next kit: (unless I find the Tama Superstars of my dreams) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stapes2260 Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 yeah well premier artist series is also 1/3 the price of starclassics. They are not the same level kit. If you were talking about the genista series or the starclassics, that would be another story. I'd check out the mapex saturn series, they are maple and walnut shells, and they sound really really nice. Lots of bang for your buck and good hardware. I have nothing but good luck with my mapex kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dreamrealm Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 Have to say.. I haven't never tried of set but i have heard lot's of very good things about sonor delite series... And the delite series maybe will be my next set... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaeger82 Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 drool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 Somehow this thing turned into a "Name your Dream Kit" thread. If I were buying a kit for a studio it would be Tamas without a second thought. Durable, consistent, and good-sounding...but I'm repeating myself....... again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Basilsfawlt Posted March 3, 2003 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 The reason I named the kits is I have the chance to get similar priced kits with possibly the exception of the starclassic being birch. I cannot get any such deal on the genista but kingnome is correct. I was looking for drum specifics on peoples experience and got a couple of good inputs but not a lot of meat as to why or why not. The info on the premier hardware adjustment is taken to heart and many thanks for that btw. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 Well after about 25 years of drumming, I've come to a few conclusions/opinions/observations about.... SHELL CONSTRUCTION :I've found that the type of wood used isn't nearly as important as the shell thickness and number of plys.-- Thinner shells give more warmth and resonance; thicker shells tend to be drier and project more--regardless of the type of wood. A thicker shell with more plys will last longer, and sound better longer, IMO. I prefer the drier sound of birch. They're physically strong and tonally "dependable". HARDWARE :Tamas rule, Yamahas second.For me, hardware is a MAJOR consideration. More so than shell construction. (A drum with broken hardware ALWAYS sounds like crap-- a drum with great hardware can be made to sound great).Today"s trends at minimal lug size and RIMS-mounting systems have reduced the strength of the average kit, without gaining all that much in terms of "tone". SIZE :Smaller is better, in a recording situation. Tuning a kit with tom sizes in the 10, 12, & 13" range and a 20" kick is alot easier to do consistently, and they can sound just like the larger sizes when recorded without all the massive overtones....and alot of overtones suck when you're recording. HEADS/TUNING :A decent hydraulic-style head on toms records the best. On snares I prefer Remo Ambassadors and dampen accordingly. So to sum up my opinions about recording drums....Strength, size, shell construction, in that order. But that's just me...I hope these observations help. THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted March 3, 2003 Members Share Posted March 3, 2003 Dude, that's great info. I'm beginning my search for my first kit and I have to start learning about the differences in wood, shell size/depth, etc. Thanks. Keep posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alba359 Posted March 5, 2003 Members Share Posted March 5, 2003 I tend to agree that the wood type is not the entire solution to a good sounding kit. Head selection and tuning are much more important to me. I've owned a few kits over the years including Norma, GMS, Yamaha, old Premier, Slingerland and Rogers sets. Plus many odds and ends toms and snares. My son owns an older Yamaha Stage Custom that sounds fantastic. My favorite kick is a 14 by 22 covered Rogers that I picked up at a Pawn shop for $25. Shop around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P.Sound Posted March 5, 2003 Members Share Posted March 5, 2003 I've read though all these replies and I find the responses very interesting in that there isn't much other than emmotion in the responses, with about 2 exceptions. Kingnome gave you some good advice in regard to shell construction and its reasonably factual. Much more about construction and the sound of a kit can be read at the links below. And, after the many many years of doing all sorts of things audio, my preferance would also be either a thick shelled maple kit, such as my original Yamaha Maple Customs or I'd definatley pick the Tama Starclassic Performer or Pearl BRX n the lower price range. Why? I prefer the brighter sound that can be had out of these type kits. Its a definate burst of energy that records very well. And seeing as thats what I do, is work under mics all the time, that sound favors mics very well. That isn't to say any of your choices are bad. Drumming setupos and sound are personal preferances. First, my choice would start with ergonomics. Can I setup the kit to fit me, rather than try to fit the limitations of the toms mounts, etc? This is very important. Many focus on color or the cost, but playing it is far more important. Second would be getting the proper dum interval sizing for what you intend to play. I would concur with using smaller drums to record. Specifically a 20x18 (22x18 would be fine as well) 10x8, 12x8, and 16x16 floor tom and a brass 4x14 snare (although none of that is mainstream in kit pricing). Third would be support for the kit. If you are going to play live, you have to be able to get parts when you need them, not wait 3-5 days for a package to arrive. So look for local support and don't buy a kit that isn't very well supported locally. Premier can sometimes have that problem. Some of the product is very good, but they go through dealers like crazy, and many are not dedicated drum shops. For me, the choice for sound would be a toss up between a Pearl and Tama in that price range, and I am focusing my comments to that specific price bracket. Of the BRX or Performer series. But for hardware, I'd have to go with Pearl due to the tom mounts. but the Tama finsih is very good. I also think when you stray from the package price, Tama has less to offer for add on drums latter. I am a YAMAHA Player, but things are changing at YAMAHA, and I'm not quite sure they are for the better. Now I know this has lttle to so with an all Maple kit, but than again, I personally don't think Maple is as great as everyone makes it out to be for the resons I gave. Now, there are several drum companies, most make a great products. Good drummers can make them all sound very good, and in the hands of a skilled sound engineer, the mic choice and processing will dictate the end result as will knowing how to tune and choose heads, much more so than a few mm in shell thickness or wood. But today, I would prefer either a Pearl Masters Custom kit, or the TAMA Starclassic maple, simply because they are mainstream, essentially flawless products, extensivly supported and finding some shop locally to get the parts is just almost a no brainer. Several other companies have cult like followers and make good products. But those 2, have been there a long time producing there products without too many problems over the years. Now, that sid, if you are looking for a very good set for the money, and you have to have maple, check out hte latest Ludwig products as well. Best of luck to you in your search. Prof.Sound PS - you probably won't pay attention to this, but don't buy something you haven't seen and played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Basilsfawlt Posted March 5, 2003 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2003 Well I did spend a lot of time driving around from store to store and almost bought a 6 piece tama starclassic birch kit. It was awesome. I instead tho went to Don Bennetts shop on the eastside and looked at some Mapex kits. I ended up walking out with a new Mapex Saturn Pro maplewalnut combo. It is a very cool kit and once I decided I needed to get over the taiwan thing I was fine with it. It was actually rented out for a pair of weeks for some Dave Matthews studio sessions recorded here in Seattle recently and was setup quite well. PSound, I actually have been on your site a lot on the woods and earlier on tuning. Can you recommend some good options for heads for studio use? I will not have this set gigging but I am unsure what I would want to use. It currently has Remo ambassadors on the 1012 and rennaisance on the 1416. I like the latter so far. I am trying to cut down on the bouncy sound of the toms. Tips? Also, I am looking at some snares. I liked the all walnut deep forest snare but also like pork pie. I am not rich so there is a limit. Thanks all for the help. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted March 5, 2003 Members Share Posted March 5, 2003 Originally posted by P.Sound Kingnome gave you some good advice in regard to shell construction and its reasonably factual. I did?......It was ?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P.Sound Posted March 5, 2003 Members Share Posted March 5, 2003 Originally posted by Basilsfawlt Well I did spend a lot of time driving around from store to store and almost bought a 6 piece tama starclassic birch kit. It was awesome. I instead tho went to Don Bennetts shop on the eastside and looked at some Mapex kits. I ended up walking out with a new Mapex Saturn Pro maplewalnut combo. Can you recommend some good options for heads for studio use? I will not have this set gigging but I am unsure what I would want to use. It currently has Remo ambassadors on the 1012 and rennaisance on the 1416. I like the latter so far. I am trying to cut down on the bouncy sound of the toms. Tips? Also, I am looking at some snares. I liked the all walnut deep forest snare but also like pork pie. I am not rich so there is a limit. Thanks all for the help. Peter I'm glad you found something you like. As for a head recommendation - Can you describe the sound of your room, is it lively, dead, etc.? How do you record - close mics, what mics, just overheads? Snare drums: Very personal for preferance. Again - sort of depends upon the sound you are after, the room, etc. BUT....One of the overall best snares I've played was the Pearl Maple JR-5314P JR Robinson 4 x 14, which is no longer made but you may be able to run across one here and there, maybe eBay, etc. This drum defies everything you think you know about a drum. You can tune it high, tune it low, fat, bright, etc. It just one hell of a nice drum. Great Drum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted March 5, 2003 Members Share Posted March 5, 2003 P sound, that's a lot of good info. You da man. I'm a guitarist and somehow learned to play drums whilst my drummer kept his kit at my house and now I'm in the market for a kit of my own. I was thinking I could get an "intermediate" kit (saw a Pearl Export mahogany kit for around $800) that's a good "bang-for-the-buck" type. But as I played some of the higher-end kits, I began thinking I should just find one killer kit that'll last me a lifetime in recording and gigging. I tried a Yamaha all-beech kit, 6 ply with toms that weren't traditional depth (honestly, I don't know if they were deeper or shallower, I don't recall the specific dimensions) that had a glorious full sound (albeit double-ply heads) but a tag of $2200! As I said, I would use the kit for gigging and recording. Likewise, in my band I play hard alternative rock (lots of rim shots, driving kick, some "tribal"-esque tom work), but my personal style is more progressive and "retarded" I guess hehe. To add to my dilema, I'd also like to expand my jazz playing and I'm one of those guys who could sit behind a kit and write a song on the drums. So, personally, I want a "musical" sounding kit, but something that'll fit in a hard-rock setting as well. In a snare, since I do a lot of rim shots, I'm looking for more of beefy sound...I want to hear the "air" of the drum, some low mid "oomph" rather than an all out "crack." I'm fairly certain I prefer a wood shell to a metal one, something in the metal overtones that doesn't do it for me. I will look into the snares you mentioned previously, but was wondering if you had any other advice in terms of finding a "fat" sounding snare. In your experience, am I looking for the impossible? Thus should I maybe settle on an intermediate kit to suit my bands needs for now and in the future find a more "toneful" kit for my personal stylings? Being a novice in drum gear, what are the typical things to look for when buying a kit? (Other than sounding good to my ears ) What are the "priorities?" Also, you seemed to say a brighter kit records better? Did I understand this correctly? Any help is much appreciated and great info in the previous post....definitely useful. Thanks and happy rockin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P.Sound Posted March 5, 2003 Members Share Posted March 5, 2003 OK this got a little long - Lots of people write me and want me to pick a drum or heads that will sound perfect for them and I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Basilsfawlt Posted March 6, 2003 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2003 Thanks for the info. As to the room it is sitting in, at the moment it is a untreated room. If i track drums likely I will move it into a room with acoustic treatment on the walls. My plan is to build out the crawl space under the house and float floors and walls at which point I will build a home for recording the kit as it should be. Until then I am dealing with a house situaltion, 3 walls, carpet etc. I really like the yamaha soudn on their kits cuz they seem not to resonate too much yet they sound very full and rich. that may be a great point to start. On snares, great info. I am glad to hear there are cheaper snares that are cool. I would like to get a few over time. For now I have the maplewalnut one that came with the kit because I have the option to swap up toa better one if I do not want it. I still need to get to know it before I declare it bad. I think it is a decent snare but the deep forest walnut sounded noce. i cannot afford a brady so that is out. So Pork Pie is over rated huh. That is a surprise but then again i could tell you much the same on some recording gear (did someone say avalon)... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P.Sound Posted March 6, 2003 Members Share Posted March 6, 2003 B - How do you plan on micing the lit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Basilsfawlt Posted March 6, 2003 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2003 Sorry I suppose I left that out. Initially I will use a D112 in front and a pair of overheads yet to be determined. I will likely in the short term round it out with 57s and a c1000s near the mic. What would you recommend. I am limited in what I own mic wise at the moment. See below: AT4050SM57SM58D112AKGC1000SRoyer 121 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoosBros Posted March 6, 2003 Members Share Posted March 6, 2003 Asking about heads is like asking what's everyones favorite dessert... Some like 'em dead. others go the other way..... Try the drums with the heads that came on them for a while,, and see what kind of recordings they make.....then review your thoughts....... I've always been one to say,, you can always take away TOO much resonance in drums if needed,, but,, if they don't have enough to start with,, you're DOOMED....... I've tried the Renaissance heads on a couple of snares, with good results,,, very similar to the standard coated heads,, just a bit warmer..... I like the sound of OLD mahogany drums, and I don't care much for any of the newer manufacture stuff, if for no other reason than the lack of "old vibe"...the cheaper new stuff is a lot better quality overall than "back in the day", unless you start comparing nice old vintage Slingerlands, Gretsch, Ludwigs and stuff....and all the old hardware still sucks by todays standards ...SO, for what it's worth.. congrats on your new kit.... if they were good enough for Carter Beaufort to record with, they are A- OK in my book....good deal.... my personal pick is FiberSkyn heads, with plain old clear thin resos...,,,,, but,, I am not trying to sound like "what's popular today" at all, I have my own thing going on, and I prefer to be different....more of a warmer, yet "world beat" sounding head,, although many have used them for a lot of styles with good results....they are a bit fragile for heavy hitters though,, they will blister and delaminate quickly under heavy, merciless pounding...which seems to be the way most modern drummers play these days.... if you had to have just one snare to do almost everthing,,, I'd suggest a Ludwig Black Beauty or similar in the 5x14 size...a cheaper alternative would be the Acrolite..both are pretty versatile drums..... and the "clones" are available pretty cheap too, if money is a consideration...and as was mentioned earlier,, a "piccalo" is handy to have around,, since the current trendy sound is the over-tightened, no balls snare thing...a 3x13 metal snare close to that size will yield "that" sound.... welcome to the world of drum paraphanailia.... hope ya got DEEP pockets !!! like all "cool stuff"...the expenses never end !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted March 6, 2003 Members Share Posted March 6, 2003 P sound, that is of exceptional help to me, great info and well-written. Many, many thanks!! Ironically, I am a big fan of the Omar Hakim snare Mmmm. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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