Positive ways to Make the Biz better

[Blackwatch]

I really have to say that I get in a funk talking about how this bussiness is on the slides. And it's hard to realize that you may have to re-vamp your dreams.

How do some of the giging musicians here keep your head in the game and keep a positive flow going.

I'd really like to hear from the people actively giging.....

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by Blackwatch I really have to say that I get in a funk talking about how this bussiness is on the slides. And it's hard to realize that you may have to re-vamp your dreams. How do some of the giging musicians here keep your head in the game and keep a positive flow going. I'd really like to hear from the people actively giging.....

 

 

I changed my expectation,s and started doing a single. I'm going to do another CD, but I'm going to make it a local affair, and only make copies as I need them rather than doing the full on production thing. I judt have two criteria for playing anymore:

 

1) it has to be fun, and if it isn't,

2) it has to pay a LOT of dough.

 

BTW, I'd like you to track some stuff for me when I get ready to do the CD, sometime in the fall or winter I'm hoping.

[Blackwatch]

I'd be honored...but I can't believe you can't find someone better than me.....

 

Still haven't stopped listening to your CD, it's on Continuous rotation on my player.....

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by Blackwatch I'd be honored...but I can't believe you can't find someone better than me..... Still haven't stopped listening to your CD, it's on Continuous rotation on my player.....

 

You just got the mojo, what can I say?

 

[Blackwatch]

Hhhaaarrrmmmmmmpp.....

 

 

Well That's what the Ladies say.....

 

 

We'll just trade time cause if I could get you to play on mine I'd be overjoyed......

[fastplant]

I don't think we can change it. The business is controlled by a consumer who knows little about music, and cares even less to learn more about it.

[Beachbum]

Originally posted by fastplant I don't think we can change it. The business is controlled by a consumer who knows little about music, and cares even less to learn more about it.

 

Good reply.

 

I like the 'seek to understand rather than be understood' approach.

 

[Blackwatch]

[Blackwatch]

 

I don't think we can change it. The business is controlled by a consumer who knows little about music, and cares even less to learn more about it.

 

 

I disagree, If you have enough energy you can always enact change. It's how to keep a positive attitude while doing it. The biz sucks no doubt about it, what do working musicans do to keep from slipping into the darkness when dealing with it?

[fastplant]

 

Originally posted by Blackwatch I disagree, If you have enough energy you can always enact change. It's how to keep a positive attitude while doing it. The biz sucks no doubt about it, what do working musicans do to keep from slipping into the darkness when dealing with it?

 

 

True, but the number of music consumers who know nothing about true music, who love kelly clarkson and pink, FAR outnumber people who care about music and would want to make this change. That majority has no interest in learning about good music, they like what they here on clear channel stations. My wife is a prime example. I try to show her good music, music with integrity and a soul, and she'd rather listen to green day. She has no interest in opening her mind and ears to greater music. She into what's forced at her until she likes it.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by fastplant True, but the number of music consumers who know nothing about true music, who love kelly clarkson and pink, FAR outnumber people who care about music and would want to make this change. That majority has no interest in learning about good music, they like what they here on clear channel stations. My wife is a prime example. I try to show her good music, music with integrity and a soul, and she'd rather listen to green day. She has no interest in opening her mind and ears to greater music. She into what's forced at her until she likes it.

 

 

With all due respect, FP, I just can't buy the argument that it'a the audience's fault that 'good music' gets ignored and only crap gets any attention because it's forced on people until they like it. Maybe it's because too many bands are producing too much crap that makes popular music a smaller segment of the business achieving success, but popular by definition means widespread approval and acceptance. What you're saying is that if a lot of people like it, it automatically is bad because the majority are ignorant, lazy, etc etc. What would the public be if your favorite genre suddenly became popular and your band began selling thousands of CDs?

Guys who think like you do seem to think that it's some sort of corporate brainwashing foisted upon an unsuspecting and dimwitted public that just laps up whatever it's fed. That's such a simplistic and comforting idea, it's easy to adopt. And yes, by definition, popular means a certain generic quality that makes a thing have mass appeal. But the fact is, people like what they like. No one can predict it. Who woud have imagined that out of the slick new wave of the early 80s, someone like SRV or Robert Cray could emerge? If corporate brainwashing were the culprit, those guys would never have seen the light of day. But the public isn't some monolithic entity led around like a steer with a ring in it's nose. What the public likes and what becomes popular is anybody's guess from year to year, and far from directing it, the corporate music business is trying to keep up with the trends just like everyone else. For every act that gets successful, the big corporate interests in music have 3 or 4 that fail to hit it. They only seem to be on control because they have so many bands at their disposal to jump on any given trend when it emerges.

 

Look, this whole rant can be distilled down to this: I think bands do themselves no favor when they diss the audience they need to reach, and only preserve their own limitations and liabilities when they adopt an elitist attitude that the only reason they aren't successful is because people are stupid when it might just be that their songs aren't very good, aren't very well executed, or maybe they are but are simply not what the public wants to buy.

[Kingnome]

Originally posted by BlueStrat it might just be that their songs aren't very good, aren't very well executed, or maybe they are but are simply not what the public wants to buy.

 

Would'nt it be interesting if every artist/band around here got a 30-second spot on prime-time TV or drive-time radio?

 

I believe it would quickly become obviou$ which artists have talent, which don't, and perhaps even what the next flavor of the week would be. IMHO. I said IMHO.

 

But we're off-track here, I think.

 

How do you keep your head in the game?

You have to believe in what you're doing. When you don't then it's time to re-invent yourself, or move on.

 

Do what you believe in--- which is probably better than believing in what your doing.

 

(If that was inspiring, I'm sorry.)

[Beachbum]

Originally posted by Kingnome How do you keep your head in the game? You have to believe in what you're doing. When you don't then it's time to re-invent yourself, or move on. Do what you believe in--- which is probably better than believing in what your doing. (If that was inspiring, I'm sorry.)

 

It was inspriring .

 

I think the 're-invent yourself' point is interesting.

 

(This might be a little side-topic, I was talking with some friends and some suggested it would be better if musicians still had to spend $$ thousands to 'cut an album' instead of $$ hundreds to make a CD like today. Thier premise was that perhaps we've become overwhelmed by the amount of music available. Just food for thought.)

 

[fastplant]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat With all due respect, FP, I just can't buy the argument that it'a the audience's fault that 'good music' gets ignored and only crap gets any attention because it's forced on people until they like it.

 

 

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not saying it's the audiences fault that good music is ignored. It's the audiences fault that it CONTINUES to be ignored.

 

What I mean is, record companies have teken advantage of their place in the business. They know they can control what you listen to. Now, I'm not saying it's some grand conspiracy, but it's much cheaper for them not to take risks. They profit more by pushing an artist that they know will sell based on looks, publicity, one good song, that they sound like another big seller, etc. The fact that the buying community has little to complain about, as they know little of music not played on top 40 radio, the record companies have no reason to change their format.

[Janx]

 

Originally posted by fastplant True, but the number of music consumers who know nothing about true music, who love kelly clarkson and pink, FAR outnumber people who care about music and would want to make this change. That majority has no interest in learning about good music, they like what they here on clear channel stations. My wife is a prime example. I try to show her good music, music with integrity and a soul, and she'd rather listen to green day. She has no interest in opening her mind and ears to greater music. She into what's forced at her until she likes it.

 

 

I'm gonna have to disagree here. The public likes what appeals to them. It may seem like they're being forced, but that's a perception, and not necessarily reality. My wife likes's Pink, she likes some Kelly Clarkson stuff. We both don't watch American Idol. How does my wife know she likede these artists? Because in the rare times she turns off her MP3 player full of CDs she already owns, and listens to the radio, she discovers, that she likes a certain song. And my wife is most definitely not a follow the top 20 music person.

 

Anyway, this thread is about how to make the biz better. How about tightening it up to how YOU can make the biz better.

 

I don't perform, I can't play for diddly. I don't know much, but I know what I like. So I say this:

help others be better musicians when you can

Be a better businessman in handling your band

Be a better musician. Your live quality should be as good as your CD (aside from sound problems).

 

Janx

[fracturepoint]

 

Originally posted by fastplant I don't think we can change it. The business is controlled by a consumer who knows little about music, and cares even less to learn more about it.

 

 

For you to say that is completely closing your mind to the possibilty that change can happen. You blame the consumers, but with that attitude you're a part of the problem. Act "as if" it's you're responsibility as a musician to help change the {censored}tyness of the situation and you might make a difference. If you just lay all the blame on the consumer then that's just a cop-out and you won't even try. We're talking about positivity here, right? so ACT.

Being discouraged gets you nowhere. Taking action gets you results.

[fastplant]

 

Originally posted by Janx I'm gonna have to disagree here. The public likes what appeals to them. It may seem like they're being forced, but that's a perception, and not necessarily reality. My wife likes's Pink, she likes some Kelly Clarkson stuff. We both don't watch American Idol. How does my wife know she likede these artists? Because in the rare times she turns off her MP3 player full of CDs she already owns, and listens to the radio, she discovers, that she likes a certain song. And my wife is most definitely not a follow the top 20 music person. Anyway, this thread is about how to make the biz better. How about tightening it up to how YOU can make the biz better. I don't perform, I can't play for diddly. I don't know much, but I know what I like. So I say this: help others be better musicians when you can Be a better businessman in handling your band Be a better musician. Your live quality should be as good as your CD (aside from sound problems). Janx

 

 

You've proved my point, the only music she's exposed to is the radio. Around here, at least, you're only going to hear about 50 different songs on ALL of the stations. If you're severely limited to what you're exposed to, of course you're going to like some of it or hate it all. Neither help the situation.

 

The problem is that record companies aren't taking risks like they used to. They're not interested in developing artists. They want to make their quick buck and move on.

 

I am trying to help out the situation whenever I can, but it's an uphill battle.

[Janx]

 

Originally posted by fastplant You've proved my point, the only music she's exposed to is the radio. Around here, at least, you're only going to hear about 50 different songs on ALL of the stations. If you're severely limited to what you're exposed to, of course you're going to like some of it or hate it all. Neither help the situation. The problem is that record companies aren't taking risks like they used to. They're not interested in developing artists. They want to make their quick buck and move on. I am trying to help out the situation whenever I can, but it's an uphill battle.

 

 

You haven't seen our MP3 collection....

we're talking j-pop, anime soundtracks, renfair music, dementia, all sorts of stuff. Trust me, our friends who are products of the pop-culture machine are amazed at the diversity of stuff we listen to. I suspect you haven't heard half the crap I got (and I no doubt presume I haven't most of the stuff you have).

[fastplant]

 

Originally posted by Janx You haven't seen our MP3 collection.... we're talking j-pop, anime soundtracks, renfair music, dementia, all sorts of stuff. Trust me, our friends who are products of the pop-culture machine are amazed at the diversity of stuff we listen to. I suspect you haven't heard half the crap I got (and I no doubt presume I haven't most of the stuff you have).

 

 

I listen to alot of obscure stuff as well. I try my best to inform my friends that there is other music out there, but few seem interested in anything past what's on top 40 radio. That's my point. Until people realize that they have to do a little work to find better music, they won't do it.

[Janx]

 

Originally posted by fastplant I listen to alot of obscure stuff as well. I try my best to inform my friends that there is other music out there, but few seem interested in anything past what's on top 40 radio. That's my point. Until people realize that they have to do a little work to find better music, they won't do it.

 

 

And that was my counterpoint, that someone who isn't tapped into listening to the radio all the time, can turn it on, and find something they like.

 

The radio isn't forcefeeding music and brainwashing people. But it is a narrow band of music variety. So if radio is the only vector of hearing music you have, you will have a narrow band of musical preference.

 

It's really quite simple. It also covers why my tastes stayed at 80's metal for several years. I quit listening to radio, didn't see any shows, didn't buy any more CDs. The result, I only listened to what I already had.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by fastplant Until people realize that they have to do a little work to find better music, they won't do it.

 

 

What if they find it and just don't like it? You seem to labor unde the assumption that people are uninformed and underexposed to new stuff. I beg to differ. I know lots of twentysomethings and my own teens who, like Janx, have ipods with 1000 songs on them, and sill, they like the popular stuff.

 

It's pop for a reason. Mostly, it's liked by non-musicians who don't think everything has to have artisitc merit but rather is catchy, hooky, entertaining and makes them feel good, and nothing more.

[fastplant]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat What if they find it and just don't like it? You seem to labor unde the assumption that people are uninformed and underexposed to new stuff. I beg to differ. I know lots of twentysomethings and my own teens who, like Janx, have ipods with 1000 songs on them, and sill, they like the popular stuff. It's pop for a reason. Mostly, it's liked by non-musicians who don't think everything has to have artisitc merit but rather is catchy, hooky, entertaining and makes them feel good, and nothing more.

 

 

I just seem to find that those people are the minority.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by fastplant I just seem to find that those people are the minority.

 

 

Well, if you hang out with musicians, and people really into music, it doesn't surprise me. But if they were in the minority, why is popular music popular? Doesn't popular by definition mean liked by a majority of people and selling huge numbers Since we know that other music is being made and is readily available to anyone with a computer or access to an independent record store, and gets around by word of mouth, it can't be because the audience doesn't know about it. Maybe they don't seek it out because they don't want to.

[fastplant]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat Well, if you hang out with musicians, and people really into music, it doesn't surprise me. But if they were in the minority, why is popular music popular? Doesn't popular by definition mean liked by a majority of people and selling huge numbers Since we know that other music is being made and is readily available to anyone with a computer or access to an independent record store, and gets around by word of mouth, it can't be because the audience doesn't know about it. Maybe they don't seek it out because they don't want to.

 

 

You're right. I meant people seeking out new, different music are the ones in the minority. I think we're arguing two different points, though.

[Blackwatch]

So with the situation the way it is, what things do you do to keep possitive and continue forward as an artist and working musician. I'm asking cause I sure feel burned out right now. I can get all the gigs I want and I have to ask my self....Why?

If anybody has a well thought out answer and is a working musican I'd appreciate their viewpoints......