Am I just naïve?: Question about my band goals.

[happycannibal]

I have been a musician for 10+ years and been in casual bands off and on for about 7. Recently my drummer and I have decided to relocate to a big city and take an actual stab at a serious career in Rock and Roll.

 

Neither of us know much about the reality of the music industry, either independent or major, so my question lies in our goals: We don’t want much with money, only enough to play music and put a bit of savings away (I would suspect around 35k yearly), we want creative control over our product and freedom to do risky things (like enlist visual artists as actual members), we want to be able to tour and play to well marketed, small venues of the USA.

 

Is this possible or am I just being naive?? Do I want the best of both worlds? Can anyone offer any input on where you think we should take this project? Any advice would be appreciated!

 

Blake.

[defense]

Play some shows and get a local (meaning around your home state) following. Record a good CD, buy a van, and go on tour. Try to play a couple hundred shows a year all over the nation. Do this for a few years and see what happens. Keep making contacts and always talk to your fans. Make your fans feel like your their friend (they will keep coming back.) Be prepared to have a rough first tours (not making much cash.) Hopefully it'll pay off in the end. Good Luck!

[happycannibal]

 

Try to play a couple hundred shows a year all over the nation.

 

 

Why would you reccomend doing national coverage as opposed to regional saturation?

 

thanks for the input, pretty much what we expected.

[defense]

I've never been a fan of the regional saturation approach. People will get tired of you (No matter how good you are.) Touring is an old fashioned approach but is the way to go. Make myspace accounts, purevolume accounts, and a website. Make yourself accessible and be sure to plug your websites at all of your shows. You said artistic freedom is important to you so don't sign to a major label (sounds like an indie label would be perfect for you.) These labels will come along especially once you have a nice list of accomplishments (tours, released cd's, opening for bigger acts, playing big venues, ect.) Just keep at it .

[guitarmook]

As far as whether or not your goals are attainable, I think they might be. There are more than a few artists/bands I can think of that have achieved your 'goals'.

 

However, I expect that those goals were achieved after years of hard work, and that you need to seriously put together a series of intermediate steps to get you there. I would plan on about 5 years, maybe a minimum of 3 to get where you want to be, assuming that you're able to quickly put together a good band that shares your goals, and stays together for 5 years.

 

Luck.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by defense

I've never been a fan of the regional saturation approach. People will get tired of you (No matter how good you are.) Touring is an old fashioned approach but is the way to go. Make myspace accounts, purevolume accounts, and a website. Make yourself accessible and be sure to plug your websites at all of your shows. You said artistic freedom is important to you so don't sign to a major label (sounds like an indie label would be perfect for you.) These labels will come along especially once you have a nice list of accomplishments (tours, released cd's, opening for bigger acts, playing big venues, ect.) Just keep at it . [/quote

 

I disagree totally. As someone who toured full time, I can tell you that unless you are prepared to make a presence in a market every 4 to 6 weeks like clockwork, you're not going to build a following. Touring nationwide when you're only showing up once or twice a year is counterproductive unless you're getting nationwide airplay and national press. Otherwise, it's little more than a (barely) paid vacation. Incrementalism is the most efficient way both in time and expense to crack a market and expand your area.

[Locky]

I view touring like the growth of a bee hive. Local satuation till everyone knows you. Then expand outwardly, while still keeping in touch with you central region.

[BryanMichael]

IMO, you have to go for it 150% and be willing NOT to make 35K per year. You have to move in with someone and save rent. You have to forgo luxuries, etc... which takes it's toll on you when you get to be about 30 and are looking for a bit more stability.

 

I know alot of people that have made a nice BALANCE of their music careers by doing things such as playing in popular cover bands, teaching, and working in music stores or running sound or working on instruments, servicing amps, etc.. while STILL putting out original CD's, touring, and creating their "art" their way-

Good Luck-

B

[PeaceOnE]

Originally posted by happycannibal I have been a musician for 10+ years and been in casual bands off and on for about 7. Recently my drummer and I have decided to relocate to a big city and take an actual stab at a serious career in Rock and Roll. Neither of us know much about the reality of the music industry, either independent or major, so my question lies in our goals: We don’t want much with money, only enough to play music and put a bit of savings away (I would suspect around 35k yearly), we want creative control over our product and freedom to do risky things (like enlist visual artists as actual members), we want to be able to tour and play to well marketed, small venues of the USA. Is this possible or am I just being naive?? Do I want the best of both worlds? Can anyone offer any input on where you think we should take this project? Any advice would be appreciated! Blake.

 

First off, to do those anything out of the ordinary like, like enlist visual artists as actual members, is not possible, unless you have the leverage to do so. If you start to make some noise in LA or NY, and visual artists are an integral package to your band's sound/image, then you could go from there.

 

Second, a $35k a year savings while playing music is an impossibility, as a starting band. Especially if you move to any real music hub like LA or NY. You'll make NADA playing in those markets. Unless you're playing covers in college towns, you won't make much money.

 

You're not necessarily being naive, but have you any thoughts of where you would like to take this band? Rock and roll? I'll assume Los Angeles, since it's such a rock and roll town. I'll just warn you, there's a 90% chance that either you and/or your drummer will go back home within 12 months because A) the traffic B) oversaturation of humans C) Absolute die-hard cutthroat competition D) miss the fam/friends/girlfriends E) "you have to pay for your own rehearsal spot??" F) the sleaziness that is the entertainment business.

 

If you and/or your drummer have the motivation, and the ability to not get down on yourself after rejection over rejection, and you could hang with the best of them...move to a bigger city and make as much noise as possible. Gig anywhere and everywhere..accept the fact that you won't make {censored}, or even have to pay some of your own money to play some shows. If you're {censored} is ACTUALLY good enough, you'll gain a fanbase the hard way..by continually playing shows and creating a buzz on your own...if you make enough noise, the right people will come your way to take you to the next level.

 

BTW, this is the same model for anywhere else, not just LA, Nashville, and NY. Theoretically, it's easier to do this when you're a big fish in a small pond..in paper this is right, but in reality, that small pond just isn't very responsive to that particular type of food (read: original, unknown music). In a place like LA/NY, it's 98% all original music. Much easier/harder to gain fans playing your own {censored} (it's a push-pull situation..easier, in that ppl are more receptive to original music..harder in that you're competing with 1 million other bands...the good news is that 990,000 of them are god awful dreamers)

 

I know feeling though, wanting to get out of your area because you feel it's lacking, or the scene just plain sucks, or you're sick of living at/near home. I've been there man, and sometimes..it takes going to a fresh, new environment to spark some inspiration and motivation. Just do the move, and if you have a realistic mindset, make sure to have a good time in the process

[TimOBrien]

 

Originally posted by happycannibal Neither of us know much about the reality of the music industry, either independent or major, so my question lies in our goals: We don’t want much with money, only enough to play music and put a bit of savings away (I would suspect around 35k yearly), we want creative control over our product and freedom to do risky things (like enlist visual artists as actual members), we want to be able to tour and play to well marketed, small venues of the USA.

 

 

You cannot have a successful business of ANY kind if you do not know your goals or your industry.

 

Ditto for not caring about money. Survival demands that you care about the money.

 

When you have money in the bank and can AFFORD to make experiment and make mistakes, then your mind is free to open up to possibilities.

 

Starving Artist is a wonderful ideal, but being able to have the freedom to do what you want takes at least enough Cash-In-The-Bank to keep from getting your equipment repossed or replaced if you have a breakdown....

[defense]

 

I disagree totally. As someone who toured full time, I can tell you that unless you are prepared to make a presence in a market every 4 to 6 weeks like clockwork, you're not going to build a following. Touring nationwide when you're only showing up once or twice a year is counterproductive unless you're getting nationwide airplay and national press. Otherwise, it's little more than a (barely) paid vacation. Incrementalism is the most efficient way both in time and expense to crack a market and expand your area.

 

 

I toured full time nationally also but without radio airplay (except in VERY few cities) and only hit some areas (or states for that matter) once a year but the same kids came out and brought more friends each time. I did well. If you are really touring nationwide it's impossible to hit everyplace every 4 to 6 weeks so why even try according to your approach? I'm not trying to start a fight but don't understand your reasoning.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by defense I toured full time nationally also but without radio airplay (except in VERY few cities) and only hit some areas (or states for that matter) once a year but the same kids came out and brought more friends each time. I did well. If you are really touring nationwide it's impossible to hit everyplace every 4 to 6 weeks so why even try according to your approach? I'm not trying to start a fight but don't understand your reasoning.

 

 

Maybe you played different kinds of places than I did. The places I played demanded I draw crowds, and rarely gave me more than two or three shots at it. The places I played didn't have more than one band a night, so it was on me to draw the crowd, and to compete with local bands who could draw just by virtue of having a fan base in that town. In addition, most of them wanted me to work for the door, so to come into town as an unknown and play a club on a weeknight for the door and try to carry it myself, it was a hard road to go. I found it better to build a regional following and increase my area by 50-200 mile increments. Word of mouth travels much faster regionally, and I was able to get into big festivals, concert gigs, etc and bypass a lot of club gigs. One concert or large festival =50 bar gigs, IMO.

 

I live in the Northwest. Why the hell do I want to play Connecticut or Alabama once a year if I'm financing my own tour and trying to build a following? I found it more effective to play a 600 mile radius consistently than to take the shotgun approach, going anywhere and everywhere just to see what sticks. That was my experience.

 

Then again, what do I know?

[defense]

I think that what approach you take depends widely on the "scene" you are playing for. What I was doing was playing with around 5 bands a night. What you were doing it sounds like regional then expanding was the way to go. Different approaches for different scenes.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by defense I think that what approach you take depends widely on the "scene" you are playing for. What I was doing was playing with around 5 bands a night. What you were doing it sounds like regional then expanding was the way to go. Different approaches for different scenes.

 

 

yeah, you're probably right. I'm for whatever works for anyone!

[Ovation]

Chase your dream, Blake. Success or failure, you'll be glad that you did it years from now. Otherwise you'd always wonder 'what could have been?'

 

Making music as a business is T-O-U-G-H. Too many bands out there willing to play for next to nothing. But if you market yourself wisely you can succeed. Having a head for business is nearly as important (sometimes more important?) than the actual musicianship.

 

Keep us posted on your progress, Blake, and best of luck.

[HarryZ]

everything is a game, chess, tetris, life, the music biz. I've dealt with many successful musicians and the one thing they all have in common is knowledge of the game. read some books about the business, know the circuit you're getting into. contact all the college radio stations and play shows there after they've played your cd. Bottom line is don't go into your dream ignorant or it will soon become your nightmare.

Oh yea, don't forget that you've gotta eat too...

good luck.

[David Hooper]

You can get away with whatever you want as long as it's making money.

[EcHoplex]

well said harryz.

 

Blake - I say go for it! Living life at it's fullest = no regrets. BUT, before you proceed to take the leap of faith do your homework!

 

First, go out and buy a copy of Donald Passmans book All You Need to Know About The Music Business if you haven't already. Keep in mind that it's written from the perspective of a lawyer, so DON'T interpret it as the only professional opinion. However, it will at least get you started in terms of learning some of the minute details involved in the industry.

 

Second, if you're seeking a record deal (indie or major) DON'T put out a record with 14 songs & fancy artwork spending gobs of cash you don't have, put out an E.P instead with your BEST song first! No more than 3-4 songs. Have it mixed and mastered by a pro or someone you know and trust.

 

Third, follow harryz's advice on touring. In essence, have a marketing strategy in order for the travel, sacrifice and costs to be worth the time invested. Keep in mind, touring doesn't mean a thing except money down the drain, a stroke of the ego, a potentially unmentionable adventure oh, and a van full of beer farts. J/K

 

Fourth, go to any book store and buy music biz books or at least browse around to see what other professional opinions you can learn from. Continue to surf the web. There's all kinds of useful and not so useful info in cyberland. Network with local/regional contacts if any. Seek out pros in your area, go to their shows, be cool. Don't be an overly anxious moron that they'll want to avoid. Be genuinely interested in them as they'll be genuinely interested in you. Beer anyone?

 

Last, accept my humble apology for my overly digressive post.

 

Good Luck!!!