Opinions on electronic drums...

[JBJ]

when you purchase one of the programs from them, you get an e-mail with an attachment that you download to your computer. You need a compact flash card that is formated from the td20 module and follow the instructions on where to put the kits in the directory. Then you put the card in the module and either load the entire program of 50 kits or load individual kits into the module. I prefer to load each kit seperatly so it does not change the master trigger settings I have set for my playing. It is really easy to load them and they don't have anything extra they do from the module, they know how to get the best sounds from it. I could spend hours tweaking the module to get a drum sound that they have already set up in the kits. To me it is worth the cost.

COOL MAN. THE TD20 KITS (oops sorry caps) sound great on that site. i just wasn;t that impressed with the td6 kits considering i've tweaked a bunch i'd take over their samples any day of the week but if i had the td20 i'd be down with the download.

[MattMayfield]

I'd like to suggest that some acoustic treatment could make a difference. You've probably tried some basic things like foam on walls, but that really hasn't helped overly "live" rooms for drums in my experience.

What I did for my school's (very poorly designed) performance hall was to put 6 - 12" thick recycled cotton insulation (it was UltraTouch brand if I recall - nontoxic) in the corners of the room. I built frames with attractive solid black fabric covers to make the panels look like they belonged.

The *absolute key* to acoustic treatment in my exprience is the CORNERS. If you can damp all the tri-corners, where two walls and the ceiling meet, with 6-12 inches of insulation, it will make a noticeable difference in the acoustics.

After treating two tri-corners, the seam of the back wall against the ceiling, and two vertical wall-wall seams, drums became manageable to use in the room. Before, the vocals were feeding back long before they were loud enough to be audible over the drums.

Good luck,

Matt

[knightvalin]

Here's my .02 cents ( and it really IS now, since our dollar is at par:thu:)


I've got a set of Roland TD6vs I got used, I have the one mesh pad for the snare, rubber pads for the toms and the plastic trash can lids for the cymbals. I upgraded the kit kick to a mesh pad kick because I use a double pedal, and the factory kick just flopped everywhere. I use that one now next to the Hhat controller to trigger sequences and such, or for cowbells. Here's some, to me , pros and cons:


PRO: 1) setup and teardown: 15 to 30 min, you're outa there
2) great sound control: Plug into the board, equalize out with the vox, keys, other mix, you're done.
3) Sample selection: There are some songs that just don't sound the same without the proper sample. The TD6v allows me to get close enough so if we're playing Phil Collins, the sound is there. You can, with a little prep, have 40 different sounding kits for your entire show. Flexibility is never ending.
4) Practicing : I live in a Row House Apartment, and I could never set my acoustic kit up and bash away. With these in the basement though, I just plug in my Ipod Shuffle, and two hours can disappear in an eyeblink.
5) Adding to acoustic mix. - I can mix these with my acoustic kit and MIDI them to my keyboard players rig to trigger Brass Accents, patches, drum sequencer lines, etc.


CON: 1) Having a solid PA AND Monitoring system is essential: In a small club, you don't notice it as much, but I played outside with these and my acoustic cymbals, and I couldn't hear a damn thing in terms of feedback Also, if you mix Edrums with real cymbals, you have to mic and balance the sound at the board, as I've found that the cymbals have too much of a ' metallic' ring to them without the wood to resonate against.

2) The Tech Manuals are ATROCIOUS! If there's anyone out there who can actually make sense of the Roland Tech manuals, you're a better man than I am , Gunga Din:lol: Everything I've learned about this kit is through trial and error.

3) Upgrading is horrendously costly: I got a KD 12 second hand, and it still cost me close to 400.00. I've taken apart the snare trigger, and its a joke how simple it is. The stock Rack is flimsy, the Trigger zones on the rubber pads are hit and miss, and you can, if you are a hard player, actually trigger some of the other kid sounds through sympathetic vibration . I 've looked at the Hart gear, and although its definitely a step up, I'd have to mortgage my vitals to afford that.

4) Losing the ' feel'': This is subjective, but I agree with Omar Hakim when he said that he thinks in the future, there will be ' Acoustic' drummers and ' Electric' drummers. I gues the analogy is someone who's used to playing a steinway sits down in front of a Korg, Roland, or other company, and the ' touch' is totally different. Ekits are much less forgiving of mistakes, or blunders, which is good if you're a sloppy playing like me:eek: However, the Rubber pad triggers kill my hands and forearms ( the Mesh Snare is great, but to replace them all.....$$$$$$$$)


5) Dependence on Technology: look at it this way, you break a stick, you reach into your stick bag. Break a head, turn the drum over. Snare Strainer comes loose, grab your shoelace and get through the night...you spill a drink on your EDrum Brain...or have a power surge....or bend the power supply cord the wrong way......or drop any of the trigger modules..... You can still continue to play the acoustic kit, and adapt...but the electric kit? check out not only the repair costs but the turnaround time , you could lose many ways with that.


There's my .02, for what its worth.

:thu:PEACE:thu:

[John Flynn]

... The Tech Manuals are ATROCIOUS! If there's anyone out there who can actually make sense of the Roland Tech manuals, you're a better man than I am ... ... I 've looked at the Hart gear, and although its definitely a step up, I'd have to mortgage my vitals to afford that.

I've found the Roland modules to be a lot easier to decipher than the Yamaha ones. My TD-3 is so straight forward, I almost didn't need the book However, the TD-12 & 20 are a lot more complex for sure.

Hart is a HUGE step up from Roland. I just don't like Roland cymbals at all! They're way too heavy. I feel like a need a sledgehammer to strike 'em rather than a drumstick

Unfortunately, Hart is somewhat expensive. But mortgage your vitals? (lol). Naw, I think just giving away your right arm (and leg) would probably cover it

[pasta]

Are Harts more expensive than Roland?? I didn't think so...

[John Flynn]

Are Harts more expensive than Roland?? I didn't think so...

A little bit more. The thing is, Hart kits don't come with the module. So, if you look at Roland's top of the line kit (6 peice w/ 2 crashes) as well as the hat & ride cymbals, They're in the $5K range, including the TD-20 module.

Hart's top of the line kit (same specs as Roland's) ... 6 peice w/ 2 crashes and hats & ride will set you back closer to $6K. But, you still need to dump another $1,800 for the TD-20 module.

Hart's high end cymbals are now ALL METAL! They have that triangle rubber pad playing surface for stealth. But they feel just like accoustic cymbals because for all practical purposes, they are.

The one advantage Hart has over Roland is that the price of the individual drums and cymbals are cheaper. So it makes it a lot more affordable to expand a Hart kit. Like this one ;-)

I'd really like to own this set. Does anyone want to contribute to the "JOHNNY FUND" (lol) All donations are tax deductable. Plus you'll feel really good that you helped out a fellow drummer



This is an old pic where some of the cymbal pads are poly, and some metal. But the new stuff (as of the beginning of this year) is all metal

[music central]

It may not be a drummers best choice, but since we have been selling the Traps
kit. Many church users, teachers and even Jazz players seem to get along with
them. Some use them as a full acoustic kit with their own cymbals. Others
incorporate certain parts of the Traps electronics at the same time. They are
a clever idea..

[OneEng]

Before I get started, let me preface this with the statement that I am not a drummer, I play guitar and sing lead. I also own the PA. I would also like to say that my observations are from the point of view of a practicing live musician, not a recording artist.

OK, so ....

Background Noise

Lets start out with an empirical approach. Most bands that I have been in or heard that have e-drums have a better mix and generally sound better than bands that have acoustic drums.

There may be several reasons for this, but let me express my opinions on the matter.

The vocal mic's and non-drum instrument mic's pick up background noise on stage. With the possible exception of an out of control guitar player, the drums are the worst source of background noise on stage.

High stage volume has a very real effect on your ability to make the band sound good. All the mic's pick up all the stage noise and what comes out .... I like to refer to as "mush".

Cost

On the surface, it may seem like e-drums are expensive, but lets take a closer look at what the alternative is ....

Ok, I'll give you that if you want to remain true in recording, real symbols are the only way to go; however, live sound is quite different.

Among the singing, guitar distortion, bass, and the crowd noise (among others), I simply don't see how anyone in the crowd could actually tell the difference in the nuances of a real symbol decay vs. the e-drum.

They CAN however tell that the entire mix just ...... sounds clean.

In fact, I would argue that the live quality of e-drums exceeds that of most acoustic drums from the front of house perspective. The huge amount of flexibility on the drum patches can simply not be matched (very easily ore inexpensively) with an acoustic set. One good example is the "big" sound of a reverse reverb on the snare on some songs.

Anyway, just my opinion, but it is based on real world live gigging experience.

I have heard repeated complaints from drummers about the feel of the e-drum sets. I would not know myself since I don't play well enough to know the difference (the bounce of any stick in my hands feels equally awkward ).

[dmkraig]

Finding a kit that works for you with sounds that work for you is vital, but there is another aspect that also needs to be considered: sound reinforcement and the person on the board.

Put the best sounds through a lousy PA and you're going to get lousy sound. If the person mixing is not completely familiar with how to EQ and mix your set, it will sound terrible. If you have a sound in mind, such as a full, booming kick and the person on the mixing board put so much compression on it that it sounds electronic, you're not going to like it. If the relative volumes of the instruments (including vocals) through the PA are not balanced with the sound of the edrums, you're not going to like it. If the PA is underpowered and doesn't have subs or 18" speakers, the impact of the drums may be missing. And the edrums may cause distortion to other sounds.

Using edrums has lots of advantages, but also lots of disadvantages, and I would suggest that you should consider well how the quality and power of reinforcement amplification and speakers, as well as the person working the board, alters your sound.

[Moltisanti]

I have a TD-3 kit, and from simple ease of use and set up time you can't beat it. I've played many gigs (on guitar) where our drummer's nice acoustic kit was miked up, ages spent sound checking and it still sounded ass.

 

Plus the average person in the audience wouldn't know a decent snare sound if it came up and pissed in their face.

 

For recording i'd use acoustic drums, and for decent sized shows with a decent engineer, but for run of the mill pub gigs i'd go for v-drums every time.

 

It's interesting to hear the comments about touch and feel, I haven't played an acoustic kit since i started drumming properly, i'm used to the v drums, i wonder when i do get to play a "real" kit if i'll prefer it or not ? For me as a beginner practising on smaller heads can only do good things for my accuracy.

 

I think a hybrid kit is the ultimate, like this beast :

 

[manoeuver]

meh. it's set up backward.

[MahaAtTheVishnu]

I have a Hart kit... it's awesome.

 

But I've been trying for months to figure out how to get it working with DKFH/BFD.

[gcdrummer]

Have you thought about putting up a full sheild with a lid from Clear Sonic?

[hardknox]

For years I

[jamsession]

The two big music stores here in town have at least 10 different Roland and Yamaha e sets to try out. I have been eyeing them for some time and trying to figure out if I want them or not and what to buy, etc, based on sound and feel alone, not on price. I spent the afternoon the other day going around and trying them all, diddling with the modules to fine tune them triggers for my style, etc. First of all, for me, the Roland V20 set was superior in sound and feel to all the other sets. Big mesh drums, even on the kick are a must have. The types of kits are not that important to me as I tend to only like the studio kit and have no use for a lot of different snare sounds for instance. I find one I like and stick to that. Pretty much everything else like the subtle feel and expression concerns went away. I find the V20 e set has a very consistent sound and feel and it was very easy to get rock solid in-the-pocket grooves started from the first hit. They sound fantastic and I suspect can be a lot easier and faster to load in and out and setup. I have no doubt there is a top of the line e drum setup in my near future that will be my second drum set and not another acoustic set.

[MahaAtTheVishnu]

V20 or TD20?