Members heavyles99 Posted January 28, 2005 Members Share Posted January 28, 2005 If you are worried and want to learn more, check out Nola. Nola has at least one book on Trademark and Copyright Laws that is understandable to the layperson. Good Luck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrjones Posted January 28, 2005 Members Share Posted January 28, 2005 First - talk to an attorney... don't get legal advice from an internet music forum... Second - my understanding of trademark law is that you have to establish a use of the name, on a national basis, before you can apply for a Federal trademark through uspto... and any previous use of that name, whether specifically trademarked or not, has a prior right to that name, in the region that the other entity has established the use of the name. If I'm in LA, and I want to name my band Bo and the Peepers, then I just start using the name... when we've established ourselves, toured outside of the state, and sold a few CDs from our website across the country, then we can trademark our name... but if there's a previous Bo and the Peepers that has played around Georgia, but never left (or made money from outside) Georgia, I would have to get their permission to use Bo and the Peepers in Georgia, where they've established previous right to the name... Finally, just because you pay for a name, doesn't make it yours... you have to demonstrate USE of the name, or the trademark will be forfeited... Seriously - before you give the government any money, talk to an attorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diablopop Posted January 29, 2005 Members Share Posted January 29, 2005 I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe if they can prove they used the name first, it won't matter if you trademark it or not - they can challenge or overturn it. Plus, I think you owe everyone here this golden name. Let's hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 29, 2005 Members Share Posted January 29, 2005 Originally posted by Diablopop I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe if they can prove they used the name first, it won't matter if you trademark it or not - they can challenge or overturn it.Plus, I think you owe everyone here this golden name. Let's hear it! Not so. A friend of mine has used the name "King Biscuit" for a blues band since he was a teenager in 1964, named after the old (and at that time defunct) King Biscuit Flour Co. Well, in about 1973, the name was purchased by a San Francisco company, the word "flour" changed to "flower" (it was, after all, San Francisco) and a music corporation was born. This is a simple and condensed version, but the point is this: Once my friend made a CD in 1998, it came to the attention of the King Biscuit corporation, and a cease and desist order was issued for trademark infringement with a lawsuit pending if my friend failed to comply. He got a lawyer, who after many phone calls and wrangling with the other side's lawyers, came to the conclusion that ater all his years of using the name, it still didn't matter, because it had been a name that wasn't his to appropriate, since he didn't own it to begin with. The fact that the previous name holder was out of business was irrelevant; someone still owned it, and had the right to sell it for profit. My friend was out of luck, and had to redo all his promo, stop selling his CD until it was renamed and repackaged, and stop using thye name in advertising, even with the phrase 'formerly known as" attached to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diablopop Posted January 29, 2005 Members Share Posted January 29, 2005 Right, somebody else owned it first. Or did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 29, 2005 Members Share Posted January 29, 2005 Originally posted by Diablopop Right, somebody else owned it first. Or did I miss something? Yes, they owned it. But you said "used", not owned. I merely pointed out that using something not currently in use doesn't mean that gives you right to ownership, should someone else register it as a trademark. There were a lot of guys using the name "King Biscuit" back in the day the flour company owned the name. But when it was acquired by the King Biscuit Flower Hour, a music company, it became an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diablopop Posted January 29, 2005 Members Share Posted January 29, 2005 Gotcha. I said "used" because for years my brother was in a band called Jook. When they decided to get serious about the business side, they discovered that Quincy Jones had trademarked the word and many variations of it for his album Jook Joint. It was my understanding that in order to unlock Jones' trademark on it, they simply needed to prove that they used it commercially first, which they could easily do by getting local newspapers that had dated reviews of their shows. It never became an issue though - the band dissolved before they bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted January 30, 2005 Members Share Posted January 30, 2005 Lawyers cost $200 per hour and they charge by the tenth of an hour even for phone calls. If they say they have to do research, and they always say that even if they do what you are asking them to do all the time, then you pay at the same rate for the research. It can mean: call from client 10 minutes research laws 3 hours call client back 20 minutes prepare paperwork for meeting with client 2 hours meet client and travel time 3 hours prepare paperwork for filing 1 1/2 hours filing and mailing 1 hour call to client saying it's been mailed 10 minutes Get the idea? And the lawyer already knows this stuff because he does it all the time and they have the paperwork on file in a program and bring it up and print copies in 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FiddleSteve Posted February 2, 2005 Members Share Posted February 2, 2005 Yup, lawyers are almost as bad as musicians. Neither are nearly as rude, obnoxious, paranoid, and intentionally stupid as a good number of law clients. Before dinging someone in a profession, one would generally learn something about the profession. If one goes to a big shop law firm, one will pay big shop prices. If one goes to a solo specialist who is busy, one will pay for a rather focused service. http://www.uspto.gov/ has all the information you need, I suppose. I took a course in trademarks, but I'm rusty in them. http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/index.cfm/catID/804B85E3-9224-47A9-A7E6B5BD92AACD48/subcatid/D8932879-DC34-43DF-BF65FC92D55FEE5D At the www.nolo.com has links. I'd pop for the Nolo booK: Trademark: Legal Care for Your Business & Product Name. ISBN: 0-87337-945-4 Asking for advice here clearly has drawn out some speculation, not all of it correct. I suggest you do your homework and then do what seems sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 3, 2005 Members Share Posted February 3, 2005 Originally posted by fendrguitplayr Copywrite baby http://www.legitband.com 1) It's copyright, not 'write,' and 2) You can't copyright a band name. It's a trademark. from the US copyright office: WHAT IS NOT PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT? Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others: Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded) Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans ; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kingsaw Posted February 4, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hey, I'm surprised to have so many replies. I suppose the most wise move would be buying the name as opposed to using the name without legal ownership. (Even though that ownership is not guarenteed.) Someone asked what the name was and I cannot tell them. We will just refer to it as the Golden Name band! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kingsaw Posted February 9, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2005 I'm going to ask one more question. Why is it that I can pay for the search and still not be able to use the name? After all it did say that no one has registered the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members adamsj Posted February 9, 2005 Members Share Posted February 9, 2005 Kingsaw, Even though some of us are somewhat informed about the whole issue of this thread, why don't you just call a lawyer and ask them? They're the experts, and they can answer all your questions -- and will probably answer most of them in a free consultation, which most lawyers offer. Really, dude, that's what you should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kingsaw Posted February 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 10, 2005 Originally posted by adamsj Kingsaw, Even though some of us are somewhat informed about the whole issue of this thread, why don't you just call a lawyer and ask them? They're the experts, and they can answer all your questions -- and will probably answer most of them in a free consultation, which most lawyers offer. Really, dude, that's what you should do. If your so annoyed by my questions then don't read my thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diablopop Posted February 10, 2005 Members Share Posted February 10, 2005 You're asking for advice, and you're looking for short answers to pretty complicated questions. I think it's pretty reasonable advice to tell you to get in touch with a lawyer. If you're not willing to do that, then seriously check out the Basic Facts about Trademarks webpage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mmmiddle Posted February 10, 2005 Members Share Posted February 10, 2005 If you're not willing to go talk to a lawyer, which I'll just tell you is stupid given the level of nervousness you've expressed about the situation (just so we're clear) (someone had to say it), then at least go read a book written by a lawyer so you have a basic idea what's going on. I'm talking about "All You Need to Know About The Music Business" by Donald Passman. It was the best $20 I ever spent on a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members adamsj Posted February 10, 2005 Members Share Posted February 10, 2005 Kingsaw, Relax bro, I'm not annoyed by your questions, or wouldn't take the time to post replys. I was offering my advice -- just call a lawyer. And if you aren't going to do that, take mmmiddle's advice and get Passman's book. I've got it, have read it (and many other music biz books), and it's well worth the investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kingsaw Posted February 11, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2005 Okay, thank you I will have to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J6P Posted February 12, 2005 Members Share Posted February 12, 2005 I had been using a name for over 10 years, and found that there were a number of others. I got a site up and spread the word of my venture, and it's history, very quickly. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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