Bad Ass New Sabain Goodies!!

[coyote-1]

The Vault 16" crash was the same price as the AA, $159.

geezle, if anything i'd consider paistes to be WAAYYY more versatile than sabian anything. a signature could easily be used for anything to orchestral music to jazz to rock to metal

I used to manage a drum shop. Not saying MY opinion is any more valid than yours... but I've heard them all, I spent over three years listening to people play cymbals and helping them select cymbals. In addition, I've been a drummer myself for over 30 years.

Indeed the Paiste Signature series has a very versatile and great-sounding array of cymbals, many well-suited to jazz and orchestral use. But as I'm not currently endorsed by any manufacturer, I have zero brand loyalty... so I only speak of my experience. I just find the Signatures pricey considering the sounds I want are available for less from other manufacturers.

BTW - I would hope that no one here says "Coyote thinks Paistes don't work well for jazz so I won't bother with them". As I always have, for ANYONE buying a cymbal for ANY purpose I have but these bits of advice:
1. Go to your local stores, and play as many cymbals as you possibly can! Because sound IS so very subjective, what works for your own ear is all that should matter.

2. DON'T order via Web; ya gotta hear 'em and buy THE ONE that sounds good to you. Two visually identical cymbals of same brand, size and type can sound very different from each other.

3. Ignore brand labels! Unless YOU are an endorsee, it's ridiculous for you to say "I only play X brand cymbals". It's about sound, not label. Leave label-consciousness to your girlfriend's clothes shopping.

[Kevin K Is A OK]

lol im just being a dick

[jenksdrummer]

 

So, they suck because you don't like them anymore? Again, it's all very subjective. On top of that, you are trying to justify how great Paiste's are by saying "the 2002's were good enough for Bohnam and Signatures for Alex VanHalen" How bout this...who gives a {censored} what they used. They are not good for ME. "For jazz, K's are where its at" is another thing you said. Buddy Rich used A's. Matt Cameron used K's on the early Soundgarden records. Point of this whole rant is, pick cymbal based on what YOU like or need. Pick cymbals based on the expression you want to convey for a particular genre. Not everybody plays like you or plays the same music as you or has the same musical goals as you. If we don't like Paiste then we don't like Paiste. I would never say they suck just because my dumb ass thinks so.

 

 

You're obviously reading way too much into it.

 

I think Sabian and Zildjian suck, and that doesn't make me a dumbass for having that opinion, because it's based on my perception of what is good and bad.

 

It works both ways...

 

 

The Bohnam/VanHalen comment was tossed in there for no particular reason (at least, as you see it, as a justification).

It's something I joke with when people who don't have enough sense to realize that Paiste makes some the best cymbals, and razz me for not having Zildjians or Sabians.

[jenksdrummer]

The Vault 16" crash was the same price as the AA, $159. I used to manage a drum shop. Not saying MY opinion is any more valid than yours... but I've heard them all, I spent over three years listening to people play cymbals and helping them select cymbals. In addition, I've been a drummer myself for over 30 years. Indeed the Paiste Signature series has a very versatile and great-sounding array of cymbals, many well-suited to jazz and orchestral use. But as I'm not currently endorsed by any manufacturer, I have zero brand loyalty... so I only speak of my experience. I just find the Signatures pricey considering the sounds I want are available for less from other manufacturers. BTW - I would hope that no one here says "Coyote thinks Paistes don't work well for jazz so I won't bother with them". As I always have, for ANYONE buying a cymbal for ANY purpose I have but these bits of advice: 1. Go to your local stores, and play as many cymbals as you possibly can! Because sound IS so very subjective, what works for your own ear is all that should matter. 2. DON'T order via Web; ya gotta hear 'em and buy THE ONE that sounds good to you. Two visually identical cymbals of same brand, size and type can sound very different from each other. 3. Ignore brand labels! Unless YOU are an endorsee, it's ridiculous for you to say "I only play X brand cymbals". It's about sound , not label. Leave label-consciousness to your girlfriend's clothes shopping.

 

Regarding #1 - while true, around here there's only low end stuff from paiste, low/middle line sabian, and zildjian. Not much of a selection, if you're goal is sound over brand.

 

Regarding #2 - I can with Paiste - they don't make duds, and their cymbals are incredibly consistent. Even if you don't like them, you'll know what you're getting just by the clips on their website...

I know that I can break a cymbal today, order one and have it in 2 days and it will be closer than what I could spend hours, days, weeks trying to find a replacement by various means.

 

Regarding #3 - see my response to #2

[OuttaTime]

Hey, anybody know what the soup of the day is???

[jenksdrummer]

 

Hey, anybody know what the soup of the day is???

 

 

Apple?

[Carminemw]

I'm sorry but audiences don't give a rats butt about Sabian, Zildjian, Meinl, Paiste. I've used them all...when I pick out cymbals, sorry used to, I grabbed 25 or 30 cymbals fro the rack, went back in my local shop's back room (thanks a bunch Lou...my salesman for over 30 years) and bashed my brains out. I set aside the one's I wanted and brought back the rest. Many a time I walked out with mix and match cymbals...didn't care about the name...I knew what sound I was looking for... They all have merit, except maybe my original Kruts which might only have been good to announce dinner on the Adams Family. Go for sound...not for brand...(your starting to sound like my dad's better than your dad)...

[qwertyMan]

I'm sorry but audiences don't give a rats butt about Sabian, Zildjian, Meinl, Paiste. I've used them all...when I pick out cymbals, sorry used to, I grabbed 25 or 30 cymbals fro the rack, went back in my local shop's back room (thanks a bunch Lou...my salesman for over 30 years) and bashed my brains out. I set aside the one's I wanted and brought back the rest. Many a time I walked out with mix and match cymbals...didn't care about the name...I knew what sound I was looking for... They all have merit, except maybe my original Kruts which might only have been good to announce dinner on the Adams Family. Go for sound...not for brand...(your starting to sound like my dad's better than your dad)...

Thank you Carmine! This is the perfect way to shop for cymbals!

What I MYSELF have noticed about the "3 big brands" (this is subjective, guys):

Sabian: A great company. Offers a very good selection of beginner to pro cymbals. Once you cross into AA territorry, everything from the AA's to Vaults are high end. You get a pretty good selection from modern and bright to dark and trashy.

Zildjian: Another great company. Their (high end) cymbals are classic. I like the K's because they aren't TOO trashy, but definitely aren't the brightest cymbal out there. I also like the A customs. They have a smooth, warm, and bright tone, although if you buy the small thin ones they sound like little toy splashes.

Paiste. I love these guys too (haha). To me, they are a very "alternative" sound or a "modern" sound. They have a wonderfull selection, and with each line of cymbals from them, you can pretty much TELL it's Paiste. They all sort of share a strange slightly complex sound in a nice smooth (and sometimes bright) wash of overtones (the Alpha's, 2002's, Signatures, RUDE's). They also offer more trashy/jazzy cymbals (the New Signatures, I think they're called).




All of these brands are great, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE SUCH BIG COMPANIES! It's stupid to say: "Brand x sucks because ONE model I tried didn't sound good to ME." All companies have different lines to give you different sounds. If you prefer one brand because you like the majority of cymbals they make, then good for you. That doesn't make the other brands suck.

[jenksdrummer]

Thank you Carmine! This is the perfect way to shop for cymbals! What I MYSELF have noticed about the "3 big brands" (this is subjective, guys): Sabian: A great company. Offers a very good selection of beginner to pro cymbals. Once you cross into AA territorry, everything from the AA's to Vaults are high end. You get a pretty good selection from modern and bright to dark and trashy. Zildjian: Another great company. Their (high end) cymbals are classic. I like the K's because they aren't TOO trashy, but definitely aren't the brightest cymbal out there. I also like the A customs. They have a smooth, warm, and bright tone, although if you buy the small thin ones they sound like little toy splashes. Paiste. I love these guys too (haha). To me, they are a very "alternative" sound or a "modern" sound. They have a wonderfull selection, and with each line of cymbals from them, you can pretty much TELL it's Paiste. They all sort of share a strange slightly complex sound in a nice smooth (and sometimes bright) wash of overtones (the Alpha's, 2002's, Signatures, RUDE's). They also offer more trashy/jazzy cymbals (the New Signatures, I think they're called). All of these brands are great, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE SUCH BIG COMPANIES! It's stupid to say: "Brand x sucks because ONE model I tried didn't sound good to ME." All companies have different lines to give you different sounds. If you prefer one brand because you like the majority of cymbals they make, then good for you. That doesn't make the other brands suck.

 

It wasn't one model that I tried...one series, yes, but not one model. I purchased (and returned) over $2800 worth of Sabian cymbals. yes, I bought online, but you'd think that there'd be at least one that would be a keeper - there wasn't.

 

Paiste, I ordered blind, and have loved them since day 1. They are so close to the sounds they have on their website you'd think they used them for the recording.

[qwertyMan]

It wasn't one model that I tried...one series, yes, but not one model. I purchased (and returned) over $2800 worth of Sabian cymbals. yes, I bought online, but you'd think that there'd be at least one that would be a keeper - there wasn't. Paiste, I ordered blind, and have loved them since day 1. They are so close to the sounds they have on their website you'd think they used them for the recording.

 

 

Well, yeah, Paiste uses rolled sheet metal and uses a master cymbal for comparisons, so they are very consistant. And when I said you used one model, I actually meant a series.

 

So you don't like the AA series then. Have you tried any other cymbals by Sabian (AAX's, Hand Hammered, HHX's, Vault)? You can't just say a company sucks because you don't like one series.

[Carminemw]

OK now that the smoke has cleared...what do those chppers actually sound like and where would they be used? Whip...tell me the scoop...

[D Carroll]

i'll take some of your cymbals if you need room!

[WhiplashBand]

OK now that the smoke has cleared...what do those chppers actually sound like and where would they be used? Whip...tell me the scoop...

I have no clue Carmine, haven't gotten around to getting either of them yet... I stress YET

Now i feel I must weigh in on the statements from the "Paiste snob", yes, I know it's jenksdrummer, but due to his rudeness in hijacking this thread, I dub him "Paiste snob". :poke:

True story...

When I first started playing, I got whatever cymbals I could afford at the time, so, my setup was a mismatch of brands. As funds accumulated, I upgraded what I could.

One of my first upgrades was my hihats, I replaced the crap ones a neighbor gave me with a set of 14" Paiste RUDES. I thought I had found Heaven on Earth when I played them. I happily bashed away on them in bliss.

Then I added a Zildjian A rock ride. I bordered on orgasmic with this huge improvement in sound. The cymbals was a joy to play and sang in my ears as I merrily slammed the snot out of my kit. Until I cracked the bastard, at the bell.

Then came time for the crashes. I was at a buddy's house jammin with him on his kit. I had to ask him about his crashes, they cut through without being overpowering, blended well with the music, and matched exactly what my brian told me a crash should sound like.

They were Sabain AA's. I immediately went out and bought a couple AA medium crashes.

Then I wanted a China, and discovered the joys of Sabian once again. Of all things, and of all series, a B8Pro china. It damn near floored me, this amazing sound from an "entry level" series. I had to hear more...

To make a long story short, a week and a half later, my RUDES disappeared to be replaced with my AA Rock Sizzle Hats. For cut, they destroyed the RUDES, for pure sound, they buried anything else I had heard. And they're still with me, 14 years later... same hats, same swath of destruction cut in their wake. And that B8 Pro china? It took me 12 years to break that sucker, and I'm no featherweight hitter!

So Paiste snob, you say Sabians suck because you didn't like one series? I say Paistes suck because I ended up hating those hi-hats after I heard the Sabians.

Which one of us is right? Neither of us... in your opinion Sabians suck, in my opinion, Paistes suck.

Remember the old addage, if you can't say something nice....

[jenksdrummer]

I have no clue Carmine, haven't gotten around to getting either of them yet... I stress YET Now i feel I must weigh in on the statements from the "Paiste snob", yes, I know it's jenksdrummer, but due to his rudeness in hijacking this thread, I dub him "Paiste snob". :poke: True story... When I first started playing, I got whatever cymbals I could afford at the time, so, my setup was a mismatch of brands. As funds accumulated, I upgraded what I could. One of my first upgrades was my hihats, I replaced the crap ones a neighbor gave me with a set of 14" Paiste RUDES. I thought I had found Heaven on Earth when I played them. I happily bashed away on them in bliss. Then I added a Zildjian A rock ride. I bordered on orgasmic with this huge improvement in sound. The cymbals was a joy to play and sang in my ears as I merrily slammed the snot out of my kit. Until I cracked the bastard, at the bell. Then came time for the crashes. I was at a buddy's house jammin with him on his kit. I had to ask him about his crashes, they cut through without being overpowering, blended well with the music, and matched exactly what my brian told me a crash should sound like. They were Sabain AA's. I immediately went out and bought a couple AA medium crashes. Then I wanted a China, and discovered the joys of Sabian once again. Of all things, and of all series, a B8Pro china. It damn near floored me, this amazing sound from an "entry level" series. I had to hear more... To make a long story short, a week and a half later, my RUDES disappeared to be replaced with my AA Rock Sizzle Hats. For cut, they destroyed the RUDES, for pure sound, they buried anything else I had heard. And they're still with me, 14 years later... same hats, same swath of destruction cut in their wake. And that B8 Pro china? It took me 12 years to break that sucker, and I'm no featherweight hitter! So Paiste snob, you say Sabians suck because you didn't like one series? I say Paistes suck because I ended up hating those hi-hats after I heard the Sabians. Which one of us is right? Neither of us... in your opinion Sabians suck, in my opinion , Paistes suck. Remember the old addage, if you can't say something nice....

 

So what if you think Paiste's suck? That's the whole point I've been trying to convey - my opinion isn't any more wrong than yours, but my comment about Sabian improving their product applies 100% - especially when it comes to consistency.

[Carminemw]

Right now my cymbals include:

14" Zildjian New Beats
20" Zildjian Mini Cup Ride
18" Zidjian Medium Crash
16" Sabian AA Bright Crash
18" High China Boy Platinum

All of the crashes could slice bread if necessary. The ride just pings and the China has all but deafend 2 bass players. They still twitch when they talk to me...

[BroadST]

Which one of us is right? Neither of us... in your opinion Sabians suck, in my opinion , Paistes suck. Remember the old addage, if you can't say something nice....

Can't we all just get along?

I play Zildjian ZBT's and I know they suck!

[WhiplashBand]

Can't we all just get along? I play Zildjian ZBT's and I know they suck!

Thanx Rodney... :poke:

[Duardo]

True, but the thing Paiste has going for them over Zildjian and Sabian, in particular, as that tye are consistent as hell. Pick up two 16" crashes, and they will sound nearly identical - heck, line up 10 and they'll be very close.

 

That's the nature of a cast cymbal...I wouldn't say that's necessarily an advantage or a disadvantage. Just the nature of the beast. To look at it the other way, you could say that there are many more sounds available from Sabian or Zildjian than Paiste...you could have four 16" AA crashes on your kit that would all sound different and blend together nicely. There'd be no reason to have four 16" Signature Fast crashes on your kit because they'd all sound the same. That doesn't make one better or worse than the other.

 

 

It's something I joke with when people who don't have enough sense to realize that Paiste makes some the best cymbals, and razz me for not having Zildjians or Sabians.

 

I'm not razzing you for having Paistes. I agree that they make some of the best cymbals. So does Sabian, and so does Zildjian. My cymbals are pretty much all Sabians (aside from a couple Paiste cup chimes) but someday I'd like to get a set of Signatures as well, for a different color...like many guitarsts have a Strat and a Les Paul...but for someone who is trying to get their opinion across you sure seem intent on proving that you're right.

 

 

It wasn't one model that I tried...one series, yes, but not one model. I purchased (and returned) over $2800 worth of Sabian cymbals. yes, I bought online, but you'd think that there'd be at least one that would be a keeper - there wasn't.

 

Well, that explains a lot...was that your only experience with Sabians? I would never order high-end Sabians or Zildjians online, unless I was able to either hear clips of that particular cymbal beforehand or have them send me a few of the same model and then I'd send back the ones I didn't like...and in either case only under the condition that I could return them all if I wanted to. I would have no problem ordering Paiste cymbals online. I went through a ton of cymbals to find the ones I wanted, and as I added I'd alway bring in one or two of my existing cymbals to make sure that they sounded good together. A bit of a hassle, sure, but I'm very happy with the way they sounded. If I had lived in an area where there weren't a lot to choose from (I was in Los Angeles when I purchased most of my cymbals) I may well have gone a different way if I wasn't able to find the cymbals I'd like.

 

 

my comment about Sabian improving their product applies 100% - especially when it comes to consistency.

 

That's not going to happen...they don't want it to happen...that's a product of the way their cymbals are made. It's not a matter of "improvement". I could say that Paiste needs to improve their product when it comes to variety, but I don't think that's the case...it's just the way their cymbals are made.

[jenksdrummer]

 

That's the nature of a cast cymbal...I wouldn't say that's necessarily an advantage or a disadvantage. Just the nature of the beast. To look at it the other way, you could say that there are many more sounds available from Sabian or Zildjian than Paiste...you could have four 16" AA crashes on your kit that would all sound different and blend together nicely. There'd be no reason to have four 16" Signature Fast crashes on your kit because they'd all sound the same. That doesn't make one better or worse than the other. I'm not razzing you for having Paistes. I agree that they make some of the best cymbals. So does Sabian, and so does Zildjian. My cymbals are pretty much all Sabians (aside from a couple Paiste cup chimes) but someday I'd like to get a set of Signatures as well, for a different color...like many guitarsts have a Strat and a Les Paul...but for someone who is trying to get their opinion across you sure seem intent on proving that you're right . Well, that explains a lot...was that your only experience with Sabians? I would never order high-end Sabians or Zildjians online, unless I was able to either hear clips of that particular cymbal beforehand or have them send me a few of the same model and then I'd send back the ones I didn't like...and in either case only under the condition that I could return them all if I wanted to. I would have no problem ordering Paiste cymbals online. I went through a ton of cymbals to find the ones I wanted, and as I added I'd alway bring in one or two of my existing cymbals to make sure that they sounded good together. A bit of a hassle, sure, but I'm very happy with the way they sounded. If I had lived in an area where there weren't a lot to choose from (I was in Los Angeles when I purchased most of my cymbals) I may well have gone a different way if I wasn't able to find the cymbals I'd like. That's not going to happen...they don't want it to happen...that's a product of the way their cymbals are made. It's not a matter of "improvement". I could say that Paiste needs to improve their product when it comes to variety, but I don't think that's the case...it's just the way their cymbals are made.

 

 

Great points, great post.

[FitchFY]

[k bollox]

this is a pretty funny tit-for-tat discussion. Here I throw my hat in the ring....

 

so when I started playing at 13 (late 80's) I played Sabian B8 Pro's, once I saved up enough I went out played a bunch of HH's & rides and came home with AAX stage, at the time (1993) they were what spoke to me best. I still use the HH's as my primary, but over the course of time and some experimentation, I have settled on an set of Paiste 2000 heavy hats as my 2nd's.

 

Exploring the range of crashes, I found that Sabian's again spoke to me for a long time, going through 16's & 18's of AAX's and AA's. More recently I have begun to find that Zildjian's are sounding more to my liking, so I've been picking up those in the last year or two. Currently running an 18 K Constantinople and a 20" Medium A crash. Going out to pick up a 20" Oriental crash of doom tonight. I'm still going on sound, but tastes change. As does my ride which is now an 70's 22 A.

I pledge allegiance to no manufacturer, just SOUND.

 

another way of looking a it though is: my cymbals keep getting BIGGER!!!