Members chino_151 Posted July 15, 2004 Members Share Posted July 15, 2004 How do you go about getting paid gigs? What is a fair rate to ask for? Anything that you could tell me about making money gigging would be greatly appreciated because I am totally clueless at this point in time:o Thanks for any help:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 15, 2004 Members Share Posted July 15, 2004 I can offer you some real world advice, but I need to know a few things first since there are so many different kinds of people here. 1. How old are you?2. What kind of music are you playing?3. Where do you live?4. What is your goal? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murphmusik Posted July 15, 2004 Members Share Posted July 15, 2004 are you a cover band, or originals?that makes a HUGE difference.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 15, 2004 Members Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by murphmusik are you a cover band, or originals?that makes a HUGE difference.... That was one of the things I was driving at-Also, if you are 15 years old, your gigging options are limited... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chino_151 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2004 Originally posted by BryanMichael I can offer you some real world advice, but I need to know a few things first since there are so many different kinds of people here.1. How old are you?2. What kind of music are you playing?3. Where do you live?4. What is your goal?B 1. I am 18 and I'm the youngest one in the band. Our ages range from 18 to 20. 2. This question has always been so hard to answer. I would say we are metal oriented but melodic with a marketable sound. 3. We live in Texas about an hour away from San Antonio and Austin. 4. Our goal is to play music for a living. We just go with the flow not getting caught up on anything. We are not anti-mainstream and at the same time we arent trying to be mainstream. We do want to make money doing what we are doing though and are willing to do what it takes. We are an original band but we can play covers if we need to and often throw one into our set for fun. We are mainly looking to market our own music though. I hope that answers you questions well enough and I really appreciate your help. Thanks:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LANSTARR Posted July 16, 2004 Members Share Posted July 16, 2004 The cover band scene is big around where I live. They get the big bux. People often tell my band we should do covers so we can get paid more. We tell them hell no, for us it's all about the fun and we like playing our own original music, not covers. But now people are starting to get bored with the covers and they love my band. We get regular paying gigs now. But at end of the day it is all about having fun. Hey I notice all the members of your band are under age 21. That will limit where you can play greatly. At least it does where I am from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrjones Posted July 16, 2004 Members Share Posted July 16, 2004 I don't know much about the scene in Big Tony, but have been playing in Austin for a few years... here's what you do... select a few clubs that look like venues that are appropriate for your music and your level... there's no point in asking the people at Stubbs for a gig if you've never played in Austin... call the clubs and ask when would be a good time to meet w/ the booker, that you would like to talk to them about gigs... when you meet, have a CD w/ a few songs, a bio, copies of any press your band has had, maybe references for clubs where you've played. the first gigs you get will probably be early sets on weeknights... this is to see if your band can make it through a set, and to see if you can bring a crowd - make sure you are ready to do both... if you can get 50 people through the door, you WILL get another gig... most bars here pay based on the number of people that come out - if you wanna get paid, you gotta bring the peeps... You won't get the 11:00pm Friday or Saturday gigs until you show that you can bring 100 people or more out to shows on a pretty regular basis... you might also wanna check-out www.austinindiealliance.com it's a kind of cooperative group of bands that work together to help promote and support each others' shows... it's a cool thing - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 16, 2004 Members Share Posted July 16, 2004 gtrjones gave you some good advice. If I may add my .02 Well, for starters- your band is still young enough that it would be hard to keep a consistant gigging schedule in my town, most places like to keep everyone 21 or older, but that's not a bad thing- it means you have plenty of time to develop. Secondly, there is a very big difference between "making a living playing music " and "making a living playing my original music " or sometimes known as "I wanna be a rock star" Third, metal and harder rock is kind of underground right now and even when it was "popular" It is still outsold every year by pop/rock, country and R&B so your style may be a hard sell. OK- here comes the rambling part- About me: I played in bands for 15 years, covers, originals, I've written radio jingles, songs for soundtracks-I even wrote two musicals for children! When people go out to bars, they usually are not going to just sit and pay attention to a band- they usually want to have conversations, meet chicks/guys, dance, have a good time, drink, and relax after a day at work. They are not going to be paying enough attention to every note and waiting to hear your "creative genius" unfold- they want to hear something familliar, and loud enough to make'em want to move, but not so loud that they can't have a conversation. That's the reality. If you want to make good money, you have to tap into that, which means doing covers. Popular covers. NOW- here is my advice. Create TWO SEPERATE BANDS. With TWO DIFFERENT NAMES and TWO DIFFERENT IDENTITIES. Learn 40 cover songs (again, songs that are popular) and be done with it- you will have to update your songs every three months or so, but once they are learned, it's easy and the money can be VERY good. Why TWO bands? Well-if you are trying to create an original product, you don;t want the identity of that product tied up with being a cover band, plain and simple. Your original project is probably not going to get as many gigs (especially at first) as a well-put together cover act. This is just the reality of the situation. So lets say you have BAND A (the cover band) playing two Saturday nights in two different clubs and one Friday after work gig for a local radio station or a Corporate Function- and then one Saturday you have BAND X (the original project) doing a triple showcase bill with two other similar sounding bands in your area. As gtrjones stated, most bars will ask you to "play for the door" so you most likely won't make much with BAND X, but you will have gotten your name out, played a full set, and met some others in the area that are trying to do the same thing- and exposed yourself to their "fan base". In the meantime, the three cover band gigs have brought in a total of 2000.00 or more. What can your band do with 2000.00? How about buying a small PA system so you can play anywhere/anytime or how about cutting that 5 song EP with the original band in the studio? Or how about upgrading your guitar/amp/effects/drums, etc.. Do you see where I'm going here? If you can get your original band out once a month and play a few cover gigs, your career as a musician will be paying for itself. You can always do less cover band gigs and more original band stuff as the situation changes. The thing I've found is that keeping things seperate allows everyone to know what the expectations are- you don't end up spending time worrying about covers VS. originals because they are two completely seperate things. This is just one way of making a living playing music. The vast majority of musicians that make a living off of playing, writing , and recording are NOT big stars, but backing musicians, studio musicians, composers, scoring, radio jingles, etc.. And they are simply MUSICIANS- they show up, they can play, read charts, arrange, etc. an entire skill set- and they don't worry about genre/style whatever- it's all MUSIC. A friend of mine is a drummer down in Nashville right now, and when he was here he was in at least three bands at a time. He would do a Jazz big band thing on Monday nights, He had a pop/rock cover band that gigged two or three times a month and he was backing a singer-songwriter that gigged out of state and around the region. He also did sub gigs for others that were also doing several things at once. he gigged all the time! and he honestly RARELY had a scheduling conflict. he was also very disciplined about rehearsals and learning the material. That's making a living playing music. Now- back to you. My advice is to find other bands in the area that are doing what you want to do and double up with them. Try to share shows. Also, get a good recording made as soon as you can - three songs should be good. It's easier to sell an original project if you have a product! Putting together press packs is also a good thing to do for both the original and cover bands- to start, a three song demo, nice black and white photo that can easily be reproduced in the newspaper, a brief statement/synopsis of the band all in a nice folder. Professional Business cards should be included as well. All of that will cost a little money. Now for my rant: I've seen lots of bands come and go, and honestly most "original" bands I've seen have sucked. The singer can't sing, the sound is like mush, there is no "arranging" you just have two guitar players playing the same thing on top of each other, the drummer speeds up and slows down and the bass player is not locked in with the drummer- Oh, and everything is so freaking LOUD that you can't tell what's going on anyway. Make sure you aren't one of those bands. Take some time to really listen at rehearsals- record them, listen to what is working, what isn't. The singer should really learn to work on being up front in the mix and work with their voice- even a limited voice can be very effective. Get someone in there that will give you some no-holds-barred criticism. I don't mean your girlfriend or mom or your cousin- Ask someone in a local band that you actually think is decent to sit in on a rehearsal and ask for their advice/opinion. Honestly, they will be flattered and probably be happy to show up. If you don;t like what they say, bite your tounge and thank them for coming- ask for them to keep you in mind for upcoming shows, ask if you can drop off a CD (when you get it done)- Then, when they are gone (after you stop cussing) really try to take what they said and see if ANY of it applies- try it anyway, maybe there is some truth in there. General advice- be nice to everyone, bar owners, other bands, etc... if you are "better" than another band, there is no need to be a dick about it-it will be painfully evident to everyone. .02 B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrjones Posted July 16, 2004 Members Share Posted July 16, 2004 BryanMichael - also good stuff, except that Austin is different from many towns... if I wanted to go see a cover band, off the top of my head I can think of two or three clubs, that MAY have a cover band... on Friday or Saturday... if I wanna go see live originals, I can think of 30 bars that I can chose from, even on a Wednesday... this town is swimming in live music. there is also a pretty respecable scene here for heavy music... I know of at least 3 or 4 clubs that support pretty heavy music all the time, and have been doing so for a number of years... Red Eyed Fly is not terribly heavy, but the Back Room is... and there are a few in-between (rockstars, room 710, beerland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nighthawkdude Posted July 16, 2004 Members Share Posted July 16, 2004 gtrjones is 100% right when he says that Austin is all about original music. It sucks, because you work your ass off and hardly make a dime. I wish I had a nickel for every time a bar stiffed the band because "they didn't make enough at the bar" or some other lame reason. Austin is a buyer's market when it comes to music; for every band that complains about how the club treats them, there are literally hundreds of bands that will play there for free, no questions asked. It makes it very difficult to really pull in the big bucks or to get the bar owners to change their ways. Plus, how can you make any real money when all you are doing is playing a single set. The boredom factor is really high, too, because since you are only getting one set, you end up doing all of your best material in that set. Multiply that by all the other clubs that you do those single sets in and you'll be playing the same dozen or so songs in over and over and over... You get the point. The last original band I was in had just enough material for one full CD, and we never had a gig where we ran out of material before our time was up. I was with them for two years, gigged 3-4 nights a week, and took home about $200, TOTAL! That's for two years!!! That's because $50 doesn't go very far after you tip the soundman, pay the band's bar tab and parking tickets for loadin and loadout, and then split what's left 5 ways. I agree with the two bands method. I don't mind playing originals in a 6th Street club for $50 (for the whole band, mind you) when I can turn around and make $500 playing covers doing a "street dance" or party at the VFW in some little town out in the country, or, if you can swing it, make really big bucks ($5000+) doing corporate parties and events. Around here, that's where the real money is. Use those cover gigs to feed the black hole that is playing in an all-original band. I'm doing corporate gigs now (I had a great gig in Portland OR in May for Intel & Applied Materials) and it's a mix of covers and originals. Our last gig was a two-hour party for a real estate agency that got us $1000. Beats the heck out of schlepping equipment up 6th street for my share of $8. Good luck, dudes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 16, 2004 Members Share Posted July 16, 2004 That's great that you guys are from around there and give more specific advice. Columbus has a great live music scene too- really. It's not Nashville, Austin, LA or New York but it's actually very fertile. Lots of places to play for original acts, lots of open stages, a thriving blues scene, some jazz clubs, reggae clubs, and tons of here today gone tomorrow style bands because of the university (Ohio State) and of course lots of bars for the after work crowd and plenty of other things to play at (arts festivals, comfest, jazz and rib fest, Red White & Boom (4th of July) the Ohio State Fair, Blue Jackets NHL Games, MLS Cols. Crew Games, hell we even have two caberets and some dinner theater and underground theater/improv places- tons of art galleries etc... Columbus is actually the 15th largest city in the US and has the largest college campus (always a tie with Texas... )so we have a huge shifting population of younger people here to keep things interesting. On any given night you can go out and see just about ANYTHING- Big Band jazz, acoustic blues, singer-songwriters-lots of cover bands-live reggae- it's pretty cool. But out of all of this I can really only think of maybe one or two clubs that support heavy music on a regular basis. My advice was only based on my experiences, but it does seem to be the same everywhere- you play all originals- then you gotta take the gigs you can get and don't expect to get paid- If you wanna make money, do the cover band thing and make alot of money to be a musician- it's the best part-time job you can have! You have to enjoy it as another facet of being a musician, being well paid to perform a service to people and not look at it as a replacement for writing and playing your own stuff- It just seems to me that so many musicians are so caught up in that it has to be ONE WAY or the other, when it can all co-exist as just part of what you do- you are a musician, so play music. Once I started to see it that way, I really enjoyed it all so much more. Of course there were those guys that would be working some {censored}ty part-time job and gigging once a month to nobody and telling me that I was some kind of 'sellout' But ya know, what is really selling out? Working part time at some {censored} job that gives you no time to work on your music at all anyway or working part time doing what you love; playing your instrument and making enough money to outfit your home studio, Getting out and playing in front of a crowd, polishing your vocals, and drinking free beer? My drummer friend really opened my eyes when we were in our early 20's when I saw how he approached the whole thing- It didn't matter what project it was, cover, original, jazz, rock, acoustic, country- whatever! he was a drummer and a musician that made his living playing. That is not selling out- that is succeeding. The sellouts are sitting in a cubicle somewhere punching numbers into a computer and complaining about what never was... Good Luck- Maybe one of you guys can go check out chino's band and give him some tips- (I assume y'all are a little older as well (I'm 34) Good luck- B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr. Jimmy Posted July 17, 2004 Members Share Posted July 17, 2004 Originally posted by BryanMichael gtrjones gave you some good advice. If I may add my .02 When people go out to bars, they usually are not going to just sit and pay attention to a band- they usually want to have conversations, meet chicks/guys, dance, have a good time, drink, and relax after a day at work. They are not going to be paying enough attention to every note and waiting to hear your "creative genius" unfold- they want to hear something familliar, and loud enough to make'em want to move, but not so loud that they can't have a conversation. That's the reality. If you want to make good money, you have to tap into that, which means doing covers. Popular covers. General advice- be nice to everyone, bar owners, other bands, etc... if you are "better" than another band, there is no need to be a dick about it-it will be painfully evident to everyone. .02 B +1,000,000,000!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chino_151 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hey thanks for all of the advice. I just had my first gig with my new band last night. Everything that could have went wrong did go wrong! We were only able to play 4 of our songs but we put on a good show and got $40. Its not much but considering we werent expecting to get paid in the first place and especially after everything that went wrong it wasnt too bad. We brought about 30 people from our home town (about an hour away) so the owner was happy about that and we made a lot more valuable contacts. Live and learn I guess. At least we know what "not" to do next time:) We are in a good situation though. We are all on top of our game and we arent your typical garage band. We are friends and have connections with the bigger bands from San Antonio and they are helping us out when they can which we are extremely greatful for. Once we get a cd out and a website up I will post some clips so you guys can check us out and to see what I mean about us being on top of our game. We do have a long ways to go though and I really appreciate your help. Thanks:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David Hooper Posted July 18, 2004 Members Share Posted July 18, 2004 Originally posted by chino_151 How do you go about getting paid gigs? What is a fair rate to ask for? Anything that you could tell me about making money gigging would be greatly appreciated because I am totally clueless at this point in time:o My advice is to concentrate on developing a good backend where you've got more than just a guarantee or door money. CDs, shirts, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chino_151 Posted July 18, 2004 Author Members Share Posted July 18, 2004 Originally posted by David Hooper My advice is to concentrate on developing a good backend where you've got more than just a guarantee or door money. CDs, shirts, etc... Yeah we are trying to get some merchandise going but you need money to make money unfortunately. In time though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bman Posted August 10, 2004 Members Share Posted August 10, 2004 I played in a "working" cover band in the late 80s, when it was a 'pay to play' situation all over. You had to buy tickets from the bar, and then sell them to friends. I just VERY recently got back into gigging. In fact, our first gig was Saturday. 1-hour, covers, at an outdoor fair. We made $200. I was shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members One_Dude Posted August 12, 2004 Members Share Posted August 12, 2004 I have to agree with BryanMicheal; I live in the Columbus area and definitely think that cover bands are the ones that work the most. There are several local bands here that have developed quite a following; one that recently disbanded is "Arnett Howard and the Creole Funk Band". I have seen them many times and they were one of the busiest bands in town. Saw another excellent group a few weeks back; "the British Invasion", a Beatles cover band. And a long time favorite; "McGuffey Lane". All of these local guys were/are primarily cover bands and getting a lot of work. The bands I have played in did almost all covers with an occassional original thown in. It's the "covers" that get the corporate, private party, and festival gigs. My experience is that many original songs just don't have that "audience satisfying" component. The more the listeners enjoy what they hear the more jobs the band will get. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted August 12, 2004 Members Share Posted August 12, 2004 In my area we don't seem to get much for a gig, so I pack in lots of merch to help out. You would be suprised how many CD's you can sell at a small gig. SO what exactualy went wrong at the gig. I have some good stories too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members maddog_mike Posted August 13, 2004 Members Share Posted August 13, 2004 Hey Chino, Have you heard of a band called Texas Radio? Greg, singer/guitarist, is one of my old neighbors. If these guys are still doing anything, he might be willing to help you out and introduce you to the people you need to know. If you hook up with him tell him to contact me via our website. The addy is in my sig. Welcome to rock and roll! Mike V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acesclone Posted August 13, 2004 Members Share Posted August 13, 2004 If you are doing Originals you better get moving. You need to travel to make any real money and get any following. Not necessarily a "national tour" but go at least 2 or 3 hours in every direction. Secondly, and this applies to cover bands as well. Do not play the same club/area more than four or five times a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted August 17, 2004 Members Share Posted August 17, 2004 Originally posted by acesclone If you are doing Originals you better get moving. You need to travel to make any real money and get any following. Not necessarily a "national tour" but go at least 2 or 3 hours in every direction.Secondly, and this applies to cover bands as well. Do not play the same club/area more than four or five times a year. Not where I live. If you can't maintain a presence in a major market venue every four to six weeks, and people don't see your name in the paper or weekend event calendar every weekend, you'll never get a following, and clubs these days are reluctant to to hire any band who can't bring a crowd with them. I just ran into this, and have decided to throw in the towel, get out of the business and just play music locally without any aspirations. For the last four years I have been playing a 500 mile radius. I went to Portland, Or, Seattle and Bellingham, WA; Boise, ID; and clear into central Montana. I have done festivals as well as club gigs in those places. And I still lose money on the bar gigs, because I have to pay for the gas, pay my guys, pay my agent's commission, and pay for motel rooms, because I'm asking them to hire me in place of a local band who will play for 300 or 400 bucks. I was going to those markets and while some of them paid for my rooms (mostly the smaller towns), most didn't, and after three or four trips to one city in 6 or 7 months and losing 2 or 3 hundred dollars a trip, I just couldn't afford it any longer. And they couldn't afford to hire me either, even if I just take the door, since 3 or 4 times in a club is not nearly enough time to build a following in a large city. And the towns where I get my rooms paid are not hiring me back after 3 years because their margins have become so small that even though I pack their clubs, they are paying me 6 or 7 hundred dollars plus motel rooms to play their club when a local band will do it for $300 or $400 and no rooms and bring in just as many people. So my choice is to play for nothing and lose money or ask for a decent wage and not get hired. It is almost impossible for a band to becomer a regional road band unless they have wheelbarrow loads of cash to throw away. Bottom line, what I'm finding out is that music is just another disposable commodity in our culture, and the market is glutted with an increasing number of bands who are competing with a shrinking number of venues for crowds with an ever expanding number of entertainment options, and playing for less and less money just to get their 45 minutes on stage. So unless you can compete with guys giving it away, or even paying to play,you may as well stay home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members miles to go Posted August 17, 2004 Members Share Posted August 17, 2004 Originally posted by acesclone Secondly, and this applies to cover bands as well. Do not play the same club/area more than four or five times a year. I've certainly heard this reasoning a lot, but I'm curious as to how it relates to a band that is just starting out. How do you build a following without any exposure. For example, if you're an unproven band playing original music, chances are you're playing second tier clubs (or worse) on weeknights. Chances are you're playing for your friends and family and hoping the other bands on the bill bring out a few people as well. Even if you're converting a good percentage of those people into fans, you're just not gettting in front of enough people to really build a following. I certainly agree with not playing the same club too often, but how do you get any exposure only playing a few gigs a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted August 18, 2004 Members Share Posted August 18, 2004 Have you ever tried to get several bands together and make your own concert that can pan out sometimes. Try to get a few new bands and some better known ones and make your own little battle of the bands or woodstock. I have done that and it was decent. I sold sa good amount of merchandise that way at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PorridgeOfHate Posted August 20, 2004 Members Share Posted August 20, 2004 It's interesting how different each music scene is from each other. Here in Champaign, Illinois nobody wants to hear you if your a cover band. I know a couple of people in cover bands and they're always complaining about how difficult it is to get clubs to book them. Here you either have to be a DJ or an original band to make any money. That is, for the college age scene. If your older then being a cover band is an entirely different thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 69lespaul Posted August 20, 2004 Members Share Posted August 20, 2004 Like an Bluestrat said, here in the Portland area, it's tough for several reasons. And I've been in original and cover bands here for a long time so I am very familiar with the issues. First is the variety of music here runs the gamut, Blues is huge here. But so are classic rock, country, r&b, metal, even hip hop....well you get the picture. Then add to this the fact that you can't swing a dead cat over your head anywhere in the area with out hitting a band. Everyone here has a band. Then top this with a generous dollup of........"I'm the best singer on the west coast so let's go kareoke"...(it's huge here, my last band lost a regular one weekend a month gig to it, even thought our crowd was pretty good for over a year.) Don't forget the DJ'S that will set up for 50 bucks a night. The club owners dwindling profits, and remember why those profits are dwindling ! Mainly because in this state as in your's also, 2 beers will get you a D.U.I. That's why the clubs are empty around here. Even fans of the band are hesitant to go clubbing and risk the "WRATH OF HELL" that now accompanies a D.U.I. in Oregon and Washington. I think that is the biggest factor of all. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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