Members GCR Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 Anybody in my area willing to teach me? (And no dumb-ass comments about "swingers") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Big Daddy Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 (And no dumb-ass comments about "swingers") You took all the fun out of this thread:lol::poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCR Posted August 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 You took all the fun out of this thread:lol::poke: I know... but I knew right where it would go w/ this group. Seriously though... I'm a good drummer, been at this a long time... just can't seem to wrap my head around swing (rock drummer too long, I guess). I learn much better 3 dimensionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slap happy drums Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 I got a Lesson from Dennis Mackrell once , Drummer for Count Basie. He put it pretty simply , if you don't listen to it , you'll never get it. Listen , listen , listen , otherwise it'll always be foreign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cearleywine Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 +1, start listening to a lot of the greats. Also remember that in jazz the feel is a triplet or swung 8th note, so feel that subdivision when you're swinging. And don't be afraid to be totally loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carminemw Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 OK, you get two chains attached to a cross section of pipe, held up by an A frame pipe buried in concrete for stability. You can use a leather strap as a seat or possible a drilled 2x4. Oh sorry, you were talking about a porch swing. OK first you build yourself a pipe cage harness strong enough for.....huh...what...oh...sorry. Somebody let me out of the cage for a couple of hours... OK...what would you like to know, combo, big band, what? Punching a band, feel...what? Feel free to ask away. I will help if I can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D Carroll Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 Get loose, if you play even remotely tense, you will fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members turdadactyl Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 Step one you can do on your own. We rock drummers think in terms of eighth notes (1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &). You can do that with your right hand all day long without thinking about it. Next you throw in the one and 3 on the kick and the 2 and 4 on the snare. Time to put that away for a while. Start thinking in terms of 1 2-ah 3 4-ah with your right hand. Do it over and over and over until it's just as easy as 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & was. Now forget everything you know about "backbeat." There is very little, if any, 2-4 snare in swing. Just keep that right hand going and close the hi-hat with your left foot on 2 and 4. Now you're playing basic swing. After you get that rolling the left hand and kick are about punching the accents. Pick up some listening. And here's a MAJOR favor you can do for yourself. Go to http://www.berklee.edu/admissions/general/drums_and_percussion_playalong.html?transposition=Concert&instrument=Drums. Click on "Vamps" and then "Jazz Vamps". Play along to those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCR Posted August 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 OK...what would you like to know, combo, big band, what? Punching a band, feel...what? Feel free to ask away. I will help if I can... Think Sing, Sing, Sing... High Engery Swing Stuff... Not Jazz :yawn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Listen to everything by Basie you can lay your hands on. [YOUTUBE]M4-ZBQ_UYgM[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carminemw Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Think Sing, Sing, Sing... High Engery Swing Stuff... Not Jazz :yawn: The main thrust of swing is that 4 on the floor cymbal thing.....1234...ging ging ging ging over and over...the swing comes with the offbeat 1 2 ah 3 4 ah ...ging ging ah ging ging ah. It's a happy bounce that is centered around that whole 1234 thrust. Try not thinking about 2 and 4...it's not a backbeat type of feel. Get in your head that cymbal pattern alone first. Everything else turns into accented punches, horn hits, off beat single shot fillers, bass drum punches. PM me if you care to and we'll discuss the intricacies of driving different types of swing bands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members turdadactyl Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 The main thrust of swing is that 4 on the floor cymbal thing.....1234...ging ging ging ging over and over...the swing comes with the offbeat 1 2 ah 3 4 ah ...ging ging ah ging ging ah. It's a happy bounce that is centered around that whole 1234 thrust. Try not thinking about 2 and 4...it's not a backbeat type of feel. Get in your head that cymbal pattern alone first. Everything else turns into accented punches, horn hits, off beat single shot fillers, bass drum punches. PM me if you care to and we'll discuss the intricacies of driving different types of swing bands... AKA..."what Doug said." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Instead of 8th notes, think 12th notes. Then drop out the second note, 5th, 9th and 12th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slap happy drums Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cearleywine Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 I'm guessing you're referring to 12/8, which would still be thinking 8th notes. I guess which ever method works, but that seems confusing. If I have to count anything I do it in 2's and 3's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slap happy drums Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 still in 12/8 it aint really swingin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 The actual swing rhythm is indefinable, but you know it when you hear it. It lives somewhere between dotted-eighths and sixteenths and triplet eighths. That's why most swing charts don't even try to write it, they just put straight eighths and write "swing." For melodic instruments (drums, too, but to a lesser extent) it's also the inflection a swing player gives to the notes, louder on the off beats and softer on the beats. So ya gotta listen. And that's why the Basie band is a good beginning textbook. Listen to how, such as in the above clip, one section can lag behind another by the tiniest margin yet all are playing together. Then listen to "Li'l Darlin'" and marvel at how an entire 16-piece band can all be just that tiny smidgen late, yet everyone is doing it all at the same time, perfectly together. That's brutally hard, but hardest for me when I played with a big band was for everyone to stay on the front edge of the beat on up-tempo numbers. It all looks, and sounds, so easy. One thing my teacher had me do was play any page out of Stick Control swinging. Once you get some swing feel happening with the rhythm, put in the inflection--not so much by accenting the off-beats but lightening up on the on-beats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 ??? In a blues shuffle, there are 4 sets of triplets. Instead of explaining a triplet, just tell them there are 12 over 4 beats. 12th notes...lol The second part of my explaination was way off though... Anyhow, the difference between a blues shuffle, and swing, isn't that much...the feel is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slap happy drums Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 that's what I thought you were getting at , but I'd rather just call a triplet a triplet then switch to a 12/8 count. Especially in Swing , in swing the triplet is to be understood and celebrated , then and only then do you have a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Yeah. But..... +1, start listening to a lot of the greats. Also remember that in jazz the feel is a triplet or swung 8th note, so feel that subdivision when you're swinging. And don't be afraid to be totally loose. Sometimes to swing, ya gotta play more 16ths feel: ONE e a UH TWO e a UH.And you also have to know how to swing simple quarter notes. Think about playing something like Mr.P.C. at high bebop tempo. There's simply no room to play anything but quarters! But if those quarters are straight instead of swing, it'll sound like crap. And it's gotta be clean, so loose does not quite work either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carminemw Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Got the perfect swing tune for you to listen to...very simple...stright and to the point. The big band feel and everything, with horn hit accents and a good drive. Don't laugh now...go rent yourself or watch on AMC...Escape from New York. In there, find the segment with Ernest Borgnine in the cab (or even at the end with Donald Pleasance) when he listens to the theme from "American Bandstand" Good hard swing tune with lot's of jump!!! Here's another rendition but it has the same feel...classic swing... http://www.televisiontunes.com/American_Bandstand.html http://cinema-free.blogspot.com/2008/08/escape-from-new-york.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wellhungarian Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 Just as a general rule. Most rock drumming is very bass drum, snare oriented, so listening to swing music is critical because your ear is used to hearing boom-chick or strong weak. Like others have said, swing is driven more from the ride cymbal and the hi hat, where the ride cymbal is subtle and the hi hat is a strong chick that propels the rhythm, so your ear hears weak, strong. Also like other have said, you have to put your mind into thinking triplets, but still being able to deliver a solid quarter note pulse/feel. A good book for you to look into would be Ed Soph's book, "Musical Time/A Source Book for Jazz Drumming." It takes through jazz/swing at a very slow pace that would give you a strong foundation to work from. The play a long would help you tremendously with your ear training as well as coordination. The DVD would help you visually. Here's kinda of a taste from the book. A simple place to start would be set your metronome to a quarter note equals 70 bpm. Play quarter notes on your ride cymbal and be aware of the upstrokes as well as the downstokes to make the 1/4 sound even.(This is what the other musicians in the band are listening to). Feather the bass drum on the quarter note pulse, then use the following heel toe techinque for playing the hi hat. You start with you heel up and it goes down on one and the toes come up. On two, the toes goes down and the heel comes up in a rocking fashion making sure that two and four are strong nice chicks. Once you get that down and dynamically everything is even except to the two and four chick on the hi hat(which is louder) drop in a couple of snare drum notes with your left hand on the third part of a triplet. (a or let) You be swingin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCR Posted August 23, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2008 Thanks All For The Great Advice... I will be taking it. I may even come visit Carm a time or two. Attached is a clip for the title song on the new album... This new album, although we still have that "punk" influence, is going to pull a lot of inspiration from dirty rock blues, Big Band Swing, and Straight rock... So, the clip is the tentative intro to Jezzebelle... It was recorded all in my Zoom H4 (Which I'm actually getting pretty good w/ that little thing. It took a lot of trial and error, but I found a way to get a good drum sound from my kit w/ just the 2 mics) It's "Inspired" by Sing, Sing, Sing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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