Drum tone for different situations

[kmok86]

Hey everyone.

 

It just kinda struck me recently (cuz i'm still kind of a noob).

There's a significant tonal difference from the drums between:

 

1: The drummer's position

2: Away from the drums

3: Mic'd drums into a PA

 

So what sounds good to me on the throne might not sound good to the audience. How do you guys approach that issue? Or is it an issue at all? Obviously with a mic'd gig, choice of mics and mixing does alot to the tone so it's up to the sound tech to deal with that.

[drumtechdad]

 

Hey everyone. It just kinda struck me recently (cuz i'm still kind of a noob). There's a significant tonal difference from the drums between: 1: The drummer's position 2: Away from the drums 3: Mic'd drums into a PA So what sounds good to me on the throne might not sound good to the audience. How do you guys approach that issue? Or is it an issue at all? Obviously with a mic'd gig, choice of mics and mixing does alot to the tone so it's up to the sound tech to deal with that.

 

 

This is an astute question, kmok86, noob or not!

 

Other guys here are far more experienced with miked situations than I, so I'll be glad when they chime in.

 

But I've spent 90% of my career unmiked, and currently tech for my kid, who plays in a rather loud rock band, almost always unmiked. A couple observations:

 

They sure as hell sound different from the kit than from the audience. Anyone playing unmiked ought to try to hear their kit from a distance in a venue-sized room. Preferably with the band playing. (I know--inconvenient.) It's an eye (ear)-opener that may lead you to change your whole tuning strategy and your desire for muffling.

 

Tuning for unmiked:

 

Generally speaking you want your toms tuned higher and further apart, i.e., bigger intervals between them. Toms tuned really low in thirds sound great under the mics, but sound like an undifferentiated rumble from the audience unmiked. Also: tune for maximum sustain, i.e., both heads to the same pitch. It's louder and punchier.

 

Tune your bass drum for as much boooom and sustain as you can get. This usually means a smidge higher than the usual JAW, and with both heads closer together in pitch/tension. No severely muffled heads, no port and nothing in the drum. If you don't do this, in most cases your bass drum will be inaudible.

 

[This is where your observation comes in. You'll hear the sustain at the kit, but the audience won't. They'll just hear louder drums.]

 

Muffling:

 

Leave it at home. That snare ring that drives you crazy at home is what gets it heard in a venue. If you do hear your kit from a distance the first thing you'll notice is that most of the snare ring is gone. A muffled snare, or one with excessive muffling built into the heads, will sound soft and lifeless from the audience. A snare that rings sounds loud 'n' lively.

 

Ditto tom and bass heads. Let 'em ring.

 

If having wide-open drums like this sounds bad to you at home in your practice space, throw studio rings on everything. Just take 'em off for gigs.

 

There's even more to your observation. Such as: you should always evaluate cymbals in the biggest room the shop has, and you should listen to them at a distance as well as close-up.

 

Now I'll let the guys who play miked all the time take over, 'cause that's a whole 'nother ball game.

[boxofrocks]

Agree with a lot of the above..

I don't usually mic anything, so I tune everything wide open, no muffleing, except a blanket in the bottom of the kick, let it ring let it sing. But if I were to close mic them, maybe a moon gel or two to dampen the ringing through the mics, but when I did mic I found there was no need for overheads, the cymbals, came through the drum mics and vocal mics just fine. That's about all I can say. Wide open unmic'ed, muffled a bit for mic'ed.

Watch Austin city limits, they will usually give you a good look at the drums and drummer through the show, take a look at what he is doing, that'll give ya some good ideas.

[JMR]

I recently found out (after breaking my front bass drum head - don't ask)I liked the sound of my kick drum without the front head, but with a little muffling, but that's in a small-ish room.

[the DW]

OK, here's the mic'd side of the equation.

 

Generally speaking, you want to use stuff like moongels or zero-rings when micing drums to cut down on feedback problems and so the audience doesn't get a long "booooooooom" when you hit the toms or bass drum. That tends to muddy up the mix fairly quickly. Usually, only the top head on toms are mic'd, so make sure they are tuned real good. You'll definately want to use a ported reso head on the kick, so the sound guy can aim the mic through the port to get some attack from the batter head. Again, you don't want too much boom in your tuning, but it doesn't have to necessarily be a dry 'thud' either.

 

That's all I can think of for now. More to come if I remember anything worthwhile.

[fusionfunk]

I'm opposite of drumtechdad, in that most of my career, I've been miced. The exception is acoustic jazz gigs, where I would use a smaller kit, tuned up higher, to cut through. Also, higher tuning is more in line with that genre of music. I'm talking about small combo "Bop" gigs.

 

For the miced Fusion or Rock gigs, I go for lower tuning.

 

I've always tried to get someone to play, while I've walked the room, to hear the kit, but, that is not always an option, so I have to rely on my sound engineer.

[zildjian@consol]

I'm opposite of drumtechdad, in that most of my career, I've been miced. The exception is acoustic jazz gigs, where I would use a smaller kit, tuned up higher, to cut through. Also, higher tuning is more in line with that genre of music. I'm talking about small combo "Bop" gigs. For the miced Fusion or Rock gigs, I go for lower tuning. I've always tried to get someone to play, while I've walked the room, to hear the kit, but, that is not always an option, so I have to rely on my sound engineer.

 

Yes, I use someone else in the band to play the kit so I can adjust the mixer for the room,and I also go for lower tuning.Some feedback problems you can adjust out at the board or from the equalizer

[cearleywine]

I've grown to tune on the tight side not matter what these days. The lows project more than we can hear from the set. Using coated heads on both sides with no muffling. For miced gigs I'll use my ported 20" with a superkick, unmiced 18" unported fiberskyn and ps3.

[Wellhungarian]

I approach the issue by having someone else in the band just hit each drum and cymbal while I stand out front, but I agree with DTD regarding tuning unmiked as I mainly played in small clubs. The only difference from DTD's advice is that my bass drum is ported.

 

Just last week though from advice from a trusted friend, I decided to buy some mikes. I just bought two, a AT 873R condenser choir mike and a Audix D6 for the bass drum. It seemed to work well with the same tuning on a four piece kit and it only took up two spots on the board.