Members Carpathian Posted April 22, 2010 Members Share Posted April 22, 2010 Alright so my set came with 1.6mm steel. They don't stay in tune for very long, couple days of playing then re-tune. Not a big deal as I need the practice but is a better hoop going to make much of a difference There seem to many options and I understand it based mainly on personal preference but could some of you give me a helping hand on which ones I should be choosing. Brands ---Where can I purchase new hoops? 2.3, Diecast ---What sound qualities do each offer? Do they provide a more stable tuning?Sticksaver, Triple FlangedDo these apply to the 2.3/Diecast or are they in their own league? I can't think of any other questions but please provide me with as much info as possible. You can exclude the wood hoops as I have no interest, unless you wish to shine the light on those for someone else. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted April 22, 2010 Members Share Posted April 22, 2010 Going to 2.3 hoops is almost always an improvement over 1.6s, IMO. More punch, a little less ringy, and more tuning stability. YMMV. Diecasts, however, may choke the drums too much for your taste. Or not. No way to tell without trying them, which is extremely expensive. You can get hoops here, here, andhere, among other places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eyehearya Posted April 22, 2010 Members Share Posted April 22, 2010 Light Shine Request: If anyone has tried the wood/metal hoop hybrids please sound off. Considering trying one for my 6 ply maple Yammy TC snare. thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted April 22, 2010 Members Share Posted April 22, 2010 carp, i've always gone the 2.3 route, mainly due to cost. recently put together my rogers kit with 'em and couldn't be happier. they were just shells, but i had 1.6's laying around. didn't care for them, but replaced them more for cosmetic reasons. i did notice more of a "cleaner" sound with the 2.3's. better sustain? maybe in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RumStik Posted April 22, 2010 Members Share Posted April 22, 2010 Going to 2.3 hoops is almost always an improvement over 1.6s, IMO. Glad you said "almost" and "IMO." There are differing schools of thought there. I know a couple old-timers who wouldn't dream of weighing down a tom with 2.3mm TF hoops. (One in particular will go to his grave insisting on only single-flanged hoops.) There's a theory that the added rigidity of a 2.3, (over a 1.6 or SF), enhances tune-ability, but that theory can be turned on its head too. A more rigid hoop also causes the tension on one rod to have a greater effect on neighboring and opposite rod-points. It's been argued that someone with a good tuning ear might actually prefer some flex in the hoop to promote T-rod tension-independence. Snare drums can more often benefit from the added weight and rigidity of heavier hoops, depending on how much ring you want to keep or kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carpathian Posted April 22, 2010 Author Members Share Posted April 22, 2010 Excellent responses so far... I did notice those hybrid hoops but they are way out of my price range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted April 23, 2010 Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 Glad you said "almost" and "IMO." There are differing schools of thought there. I know a couple old-timers who wouldn't dream of weighing down a tom with 2.3mm TF hoops. (One in particular will go to his grave insisting on only single-flanged hoops.) There's a theory that the added rigidity of a 2.3, (over a 1.6 or SF), enhances tune-ability, but that theory can be turned on its head too. A more rigid hoop also causes the tension on one rod to have a greater effect on neighboring and opposite rod-points. It's been argued that someone with a good tuning ear might actually prefer some flex in the hoop to promote T-rod tension-independence.Snare drums can more often benefit from the added weight and rigidity of heavier hoops, depending on how much ring you want to keep or kill. Qualifiers R Us. Yeah, and I understand there are some boutique makers who insist on 1.6 hoops. Still, as evidenced by your qualifiers, there are not so many who, ahem, go the other way. I've done this (swap 1.6s for 2.3s) on a number of kits, all with positive results. It's actually a way to make a modest kit (which is more likely to come with 1.6s) sound better for relatively little outlay. On the other hand, putting a heavier hoop on something like, say, an Acrolite would be madness. And while I have no theories worth a damn, my experience is that tuning ease and stability are better with 2.3s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carpathian Posted April 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 I have made my decision and I will be going 2.3 on all my drums. Drumaker had nice prices but They are located in TN and I would be charged sales tax so I looked through M123 and they offer Gilbraltar ones. They would be fine right?Plus I can get 15% off my order w/ coupon code aprnew15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted April 23, 2010 Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 I have made my decision and I will be going 2.3 on all my drums. Drumaker had nice prices but They are located in TN and I would be charged sales tax so I looked through M123 and they offer Gilbraltar ones. They would be fine right?Plus I can get 15% off my order w/ coupon code aprnew15 those are what i put on my rogers. they're pretty good, imo. helluva lot better than what i was using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carpathian Posted April 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 sweet, I'm going to snag new heads while I'm at it. Finally getting some coated emps!! Whoo hoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted April 23, 2010 Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 sweet, I'm going to snag new heads while I'm at it. Finally getting some coated emps!! Whoo hoo ok, that reminds me, and not to thread steal, but has anyone used the ambassador-x on toms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carpathian Posted April 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 No but I saw those and they might be just the ticket for those who find the emps to dark and the ambs to bright... I haven't ordered them yet so i might just change my mind. Here's a review that got my attention on MF.. credit goes to "JAGGED" EXCELLENT HEADS! Playing in a cover band for 3 hours a night, set after set, night after night can wreak absolute HAVOC on your drumheads, particularly your snare head. What Remo has done here is create a drumhead that allows all the same sensitivity of it's 10mil counter part with the added durability of the 12mil film. The sound is slightly drier than your 10mil with the focus you would expect from a two ply Emperor. That is not to say these heads do not "ring out" like the standard ambassador because due to the added thickness, the impact from stick to head -to air pushing down to the bottom head- to rebound back to top travels travels at the same distance but enhances the decay. The physics behind it can be simply described as a "thicker" ONE ply head will reverberate LONGER than a "thinner" ONE ply head as the added mass takes longer to stop vibrating. Many people (myself included) believed applying a Diplomat on the underside of my toms would create longer decay than an Ambassador but the exact OPPOSITE is actually true. Enter an Ambassador 12mil head and you have even MORE shell presence in your sound. IMO, there is no head like your standard coated Ambassador for a snare drum be it in the studio, live, your ear...whatever. These heads have me wondering if my beliefs still apply. The added "shell" focus was always the reason I would go for an Emperor in the studio (if ever) but this new head has an almost identical feel to the original Ambassadors....maybe better. Look at it this way....you have a thin and a thinner piece of rubber pad to work your chops on......both are one solid piece and both provide rebound. BUT, the "thicker" of the two will have slightly less "give" and more "kick back" to your wrist....a real commodity when executing fast doubles on your snare drum. Singles, doubles, paradiddles....all feel amazing and these heads are great. I semi-seated the 12" for my Kodiak figuring I would have to tune it again today....WRONG....stayed in perfectly. Just put the 14" on my other Kodiak without seating it and same thing..........these heads seem to lock onto the edge better than the 10mil. More shell, less head, same sensitivity, better rebound (singles are effortless even cranked tight)- these heads are very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted April 23, 2010 Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 hmmm. do they make them clear? or are they only coated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carpathian Posted April 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 I think just coated. I searched for them and the coated popped up, no other search results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carpathian Posted April 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 probably just like the emperor x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted April 23, 2010 Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 yeah, i saw that, too. bumma. i loves the clear. currently playing clear dots on the toms, clear ambs on bottom. good combo, but when the x's came out, i really paid attention. might try them out on the snare, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carpathian Posted April 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 I love the x's on my snare... I tried the black suede x when I threw the BS on my toms but didn't like it so I went back to the emp x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted April 23, 2010 Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 i've tried a bunch of different ones, snare-wise, but i always seem to go back to CS reverse dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carpathian Posted April 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 very similar to the x's just ambassador right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted April 23, 2010 Members Share Posted April 23, 2010 very similar to the x's just ambassador right? not sure. i've never seen a thickness listed for the cs series. they call it "medium," tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted April 24, 2010 Members Share Posted April 24, 2010 very similar to the x's just ambassador right? The Ambassador Xs use a 12-mil film instead of the Ambassador's 10mil. Still single-ply. Not to be confused with the 2-ply Vintage Ambassador. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted April 26, 2010 Members Share Posted April 26, 2010 No, but next time I rehead I'm tryin' 'em. Been an Ambassador man since forever, but I'd love to get a smidge more sustain from the thicker heads since I play unmiked almost all the time.Coated only so far. Can't see why they wouldn't offer a clear at some point, since they'd have the same film as the coated.The Ambassador Xs use a 12-mil film instead of the Ambassador's 10mil. Still single-ply. Not to be confused with the 2-ply Vintage Ambassador. interesting. would love to hear your thoughts on the x's, dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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