Keep your day job, or commit 100% of your time to music?

[BryanMichael]

 

Originally posted by BIGD I can tell you that you should go 100% if you are under the age of 25. Suffer for a few years and see what happens. I'm in an indie lable band that has sold a few thousand records in the last 5 years and has gotten rave reviews in magazines like CMJ, Alternative Press, etc. The reason we are told that we can't get on a major label or a much bigger indie is this: we've been around too long and we don't tour enough. Everyone in the band has a decent job. We'd all quit our jobs for a few years if we got signed to a major. But a lot of AR guys think that our time has passed despite the fact that we have a fanatical cult following and great press. You can always go back to school. As far as I'm concerned, my band should have shacked up in a house, bought a van and toured like mad when we were younger. Now we're all pushing 30 and it feels like time is running out despite the fact that we've managed a relative level of success. There are just SOOOO many younger bands out there. Most of them suck, but still.......

 

 

But if you would have stayed in school, you would have been out when you were like 22...you can't even rent a hotel room until you are 25.... and you'd have something to fall back on now since you aren't getting signed.

Good Luck brother-

you got a website or some links?

I'd love to check you out!

-Bry

[MorePaul]

It's been said before I'm sure, but you might want to review what "making it" really means.

 

With a lot of hard work, you can become very very good, play weddings and such (don't knock is - I've been to weddings where world class guys were playing), do some instructing -- maybe even land a professorship if you go the academic route.

 

"Good" you can control, "professional" you can do

"MTV rockstar famous / well known"... that is the listening *marketing?) choice of others.

 

One thing I continue to find as I get older - with desires I achieve.

 

Things are never like what you think they will be like. Not worse or better, just not like what you thought.

[MorePaul]

It's been said before I'm sure, but you might want to review what "making it" really means.

 

With a lot of hard work, you can become very very good, play weddings and such (don't knock is - I've been to weddings where world class guys were playing), do some instructing -- maybe even land a professorship if you go the academic route.

 

"Good" you can control, "professional" you can do

"MTV rockstar famous / well known"... that is the listening *marketing?) choice of others.

 

One thing I continue to find as I get older - with desires I achieve.

 

Things are never like what you think they will be like. Not worse or better, just not like what you thought.

 

 

I'd say go to college....but for maybe a different reason

1) You say your living in teeny town - you need to get exposed to being around really good players, it will help you gauge just what's going on, then you can make an informed decision

 

2) college is a GREAT music scene for up-and-coming bands. Chances are you are right now) insterested in playing music that appeals to that crowd anyway, the semi0structured environment will help you hook up with other player, etc

[BIGD]

 

Originally posted by BryanMichael But if you would have stayed in school, you would have been out when you were like 22...you can't even rent a hotel room until you are 25.... and you'd have something to fall back on now since you aren't getting signed. Good Luck brother- you got a website or some links? I'd love to check you out! -Bry

 

 

Everyone in my band has graduated college. I did when I was 23.

[HoHum]

Originally posted by EcHoplex Well said. I agree, it's great to be spirited about your craft and take the stance that nothing will stop you but, when you go through some experiences that test that notion and end up different from where you expected to be, that's when you realize you don't have the power to control the odds. The only real power any of us have is preparing ourselves for an opportunity . Without opportunity, you have nothing but your pride, dignity and hope on the line.

 

I like this debate. Although I disagree with you. There's an old saying and it was a good friends father (and great piano player) who told me it while discussing what it takes to be successful, "It's amazing how lucky you get when you work at it, when you commit yourself all kinds of doors open up and opportunities present themselves that otherwise never would have." Opportunities are made, they don't just magically appear. Now my friends dad and all his four sons are extremely successful, all in very different walks of life and with little help from dad. You stated " that's when you realize you don't have the power to control the odds" To me, that is a defeatist attitude, you cannot get something if you don't believe you can 110%. I think overwhelmingly the odds are in your favor, as a matter of fact, It's my belief no one but you can determine your destiny. Everyone talks about how hard it is to be a success in the music biz, that it all rests on the shoulders of the labels or A&R or publishers etc... Do you know how many of those people there are? People act as if there is one or two Gods of the music biz that can write you a ticket, there are thousands of people and ways to make it. You don't give up at the first or second or 20th rejection, you get right back to business and nothing can stop a truly determined person. I don't believe this is a pipe dream, I believe all the successful people in the music and any other biz felt the same way I do and "that's" why they are where they are.

Anyway, no offense, just stating my feelings.

[BryanMichael]

Originally posted by BIGD Everyone in my band has graduated college. I did when I was 23. www.doubleagentrecords.com My band is called "My Favorite"

 

Went to the website- NICE STUFF!

Congrats.

 

But do you really think that going to college hurt your career?

I can't buy into that. If you were 23 when you graduated (or in some cases 22 or 21 even!) You are barely old enought to )legally) play the clubs you would play on campus anyway-

and five years in (making you 26, 27, or 28) you could still tour.

It's always hard to figure out what exact factors have "prevented" your overall "success" - But I feel that you all are much better off having gone to school first and just getting it out of the way.

 

HoHum- The point I was driving at wasn't that you shouldn't believe 110% in what you are doing, but that choosing "Smart" steps to achieving what you want can vastly improve your odds. While some may have seen taking a part time job at a music store and going to college for music as a "distraction" from music, on the contrary, he was surrounded by what he loves every day-just in various forms. You have to have a part time job-why not music? Gotta get a degree for later in life...why not music? Gotta earn some extra cash...why not teach..music?

 

There is a vast difference in the "rock star dream" that many have and the actual world of a "professional musician".

 

Peace,

Bryan

[BIGD]

 

Originally posted by BryanMichael Went to the website- NICE STUFF! Congrats. But do you really think that going to college hurt your career? I can't buy into that. If you were 23 when you graduated (or in some cases 22 or 21 even!) You are barely old enought to )legally) play the clubs you would play on campus anyway- and five years in (making you 26, 27, or 28) you could still tour. It's always hard to figure out what exact factors have "prevented" your overall "success" - But I feel that you all are much better off having gone to school first and just getting it out of the way. HoHum- The point I was driving at wasn't that you shouldn't believe 110% in what you are doing, but that choosing "Smart" steps to achieving what you want can vastly improve your odds. While some may have seen taking a part time job at a music store and going to college for music as a "distraction" from music, on the contrary, he was surrounded by what he loves every day-just in various forms. You have to have a part time job-why not music? Gotta get a degree for later in life...why not music? Gotta earn some extra cash...why not teach..music? There is a vast difference in the "rock star dream" that many have and the actual world of a "professional musician". Peace, Bryan

 

 

I think that hedging our bets a bit hurt our career, yes. We had a vinyl 7 inch that was played on the John Peel show in England back in 1994. I think there was a legitimate radio hit on that record. Knowing what I know now, we should have gotten on a plane and toured in England, and then PR'd and toured the {censored} out of those songs. Instead, a few people went to grad school, we put a a few more 7 inches and played a smattering of weekend tours, didn't release a full album or anything on CD except compilations until the end of 1999. We were young and doing everything ourselves.

 

As for a full time job in music, I like pop-music. I've given a few lessons here and there, but overall, if it's not music I love I can't do it. I don't want to play covers or teach little Johnny how to play the next P.O.D release. The only part of the biz I'm really interested in outside of being in a touring/working band is music production, which I'm working on slowly but surely as we speak. I don't knock people in cover or wedding bands, but I'll never do that.

[BryanMichael]

Not to belabor the point-

but that's great you guys had some success!

But going off and touring England would have been a cool life experience...but it wouldn't gaurantee success anymore than staying behind gauranteed "failure".

It's good that you have clear cut goals and know how you want to place music in your life. To me, any day making music (whatever it is) was a good day- and any day I was getting paid for it (playing covers, doing jingles for radio, scoring for local TV, audio remix editing for video) was an even better day!

And of course I write my own stuff and compose score type stuff on occassion

(Check out the motion picture "Bullethead" if you can find it at your local video store...I wrote the song used in the end credits called "No Saviours" which they recomposed into some kind of techo industrial stuff using my lyrics...Oh well, I still got credit for it in the film )

You had a reare opportunity, and perhaps waiting on it let it pass you by-but you never know, you may have come home broke and tired and had to start up school again anyway.

 

Good luck with your future endeavors-email me anytime.

 

peace,

B

[EcHoplex]

I like this debate. Although I disagree with you. There's an old saying and it was a good friends father (and great piano player) who told me it while discussing what it takes to be successful, "It's amazing how lucky you get when you work at it, when you commit yourself all kinds of doors open up and opportunities present themselves that otherwise never would have." Opportunities are made, they don't just magically appear. Now my friends dad and all his four sons are extremely successful, all in very different walks of life and with little help from dad. You stated " that's when you realize you don't have the power to control the odds" To me, that is a defeatist attitude, you cannot get something if you don't believe you can 110%. I think overwhelmingly the odds are in your favor, as a matter of fact, It's my belief no one but you can determine your destiny. Everyone talks about how hard it is to be a success in the music biz, that it all rests on the shoulders of the labels or A&R or publishers etc... Do you know how many of those people there are? People act as if there is one or two Gods of the music biz that can write you a ticket, there are thousands of people and ways to make it. You don't give up at the first or second or 20th rejection, you get right back to business and nothing can stop a truly determined person. I don't believe this is a pipe dream, I believe all the successful people in the music and any other biz felt the same way I do and "that's" why they are where they are. Anyway, no offense, just stating my feelings.

 

 

 

HoHum - no offense taken. Opinions are opinions and all of us are going to have our own definition of "how to get to the next level". I think it's great that you have a "don't quit" attitude but, just to clarify, I never implied anywhere that a person shouldn't believe in themselves 110%. Quite the contrary, people should believe in themselves but, that's not the only part of the equation that creates success. I firmly believe that no one gets to the next level in life without the help of someone else. People of all walks of life rely heavily on other people who have connections, money, political clout or wisdom to open doors for them. In short, lead or guide them to Right of Passage.

 

Make no mistake about it, the music biz is controlled by powerful people, trends and politics. If it were just up to us by ourselves then, there'd be no need for managers, lawyers, A&R reps and labels, radio or MTV. These are the opinions of important people who hold the power to make you or break you hence, my statement about "controlling the odds".

[Cashdollar]

Grow Pot!

for the legal medical clubs of course!

[klubjunk]

2 things..

 

1. Luck is preparation meeting opportunity.

-- if your not ready to capitalize on an opportunity, your not going to be lucky.

-- you work hard and go in that direction, things will open up that you WILL be ready for... what luck!

 

2. You should be blaming yourself if you blame the man.. cuz you ARE the man.

-- this is for girls too.. (it just doesn't have the same umph with 'person'.)

 

ANYWAY

HoHUM.. your right on this.

I think some of these OLD farts are still suffering from depression, like I was about 4 months ago.. I got royally {censored}ed. And things like that take some time to get over.. your outlook is not healthy and carefree.. it becomes jaded and protectionist. You start sounding like your mother in other words..

 

Every path you take, take it with pride, take it with passion and take it with great care... but if you don't take a path out of fear, you will never be happy.

 

I decided I would start a magazine to get the A&R, labels, and everyone else I would want to meet as an artist.. TO COME TO ME!! and guess what, it was the best thing I ever did. It worked like a charm. I know the ins and outs of what they look for, I networked and have connections out the ass, and I made everyone proud... including myself. But then..

It was gone. We let in a new partner, we shifted ownership of some % of the company and next thing you know.. BANG.. my partners {censored}ed me. All of a sudden, i'm out $40,000 and thrown out on the street with no income, no place to live... nothing.

 

So..

I go back to the reason I started that {censored}ing magazine in the first place.

music.

a little older, a LOT wiser, and after recovering from the hurt and anger of it all.. a lot more driven than I was before. KNOWING, that I did what I did, and I can do it or anything else I put my mind to.

There is nothing that can stop you, only YOU can stop you.

BUT.. you can also stop yourself unconsciously, by being arrogant, and many other reasons.. so my advice is GO HARD, but keep yourself grounded mentally. Keep your head in check.. try to round out your life in other areas, or you will burn out, become an asshole and be hated... instead of respected and loved. Which is what I think is what we all really want.

 

oh yes..

and grow some pot.

[Hydrospin]

Hey guys,

As you can see I am noobie.

 

Reading this thread inspired me to add my progress to this thread in hopes that it may inspire or help the confused or frustrated.

I just wanted to say that this is the best thread I have ever read.

The knowledge and personalty I see here is quite refreshing compared to what I have scene on other boards. I commend all of you:cool:

 

I started playing again about 2 years ago (for the record I am 28)

 

I played a few years in my teens. Had a band, played a couple shows. Nothing big but it was fun. I started a 65 hour a week job when I was 20. Lost my whole damn life. sold my gear and so on.

 

Well, 5 years later fed up with stress I quit. Picked up a much better 40 hour a week job. As I lay in bed one night I think back about things I missed during this job and how it had changed me as a person. (Not in a good way either)

I kept dwelling on the feeling of playing music and the satisfaction of playing live. Well, at that point I realized I want to be involved in music for the rest of my time in this life.

 

I set my self on a 6 month mission to do a little research. Gear, the biz, resources, etc. I am way too much of a thinker and perfectionist to just jump without a plan.

 

Once I was comfortable with that I purchased another guitar and started playing and writing.

 

As of now it is my mission and 110% committed goal to "Make it in the music biz". Now by make it I do not intend to be on cribs and have a bunch of dumb companies looking for endorsement for their new pickle flavored pork rinds. This is for me. I want people to like my music. That is all. There is so much crap out there right now it makes me sick. No emotion,bland, and over rated at is best. I want put out something real.

 

At this point this is the happiest I have ever been. Once I decided this I have had no negative thoughts towards this. For me it is not "if" it is "when" this may be a bit flaky but it does drive me more. No matter what negative response I get from anyone.

 

I have endless amounts of info on everything that I believe I need to produce and self release my first album. Along the way I have also made ties with a few labels, getting decent gigs, and a few ties to a couple "Famous musicians". I also have a pretty good grasp on the buisness part.

 

About 6 months ago I went to a friends house to hang out while his band practiced. They were very good by the way. Afterwards I messed around with the guitar player and drummer. Man, I was so nervous. This was my first so called performance with the exception of my girlfriend.

I played 2 songs I had written, and some stuff I was working on.

They were blown away. The guitar player stated that a couple of my riffs were some of the "catchiest stuff he has heard" Not in a pop way.

 

They asked me to do a side project with them using my material.

I am the lead man, I write the main structure and let them add the rest.

 

I do not tend to rely on other people for things. I am a very big DYI person and tend to look at things a little different than most.

I plan on doing it all except for reproduction of course.

 

The comments from the guys I play with came as quite a shock to me. I lack confidence sometimes. When I started playing again I could not remember anything.

For the first 6 months I did not take one lesson, look at music or anything. I just sat and noodled around getting familiar with the guitar itself. I wanted to develop my own style. I think of the guitar as more of a tool than a instrument.

 

Once I was comfortable I started reading some lessons, learning theory, chords, scales and so on. As of now I have not learned anyone elses music. Everything I have played has come from me. I do understand that learning others people material can help you but I do not get any satisfaction from it. So, you can understand why the compliment meant so much to me.

 

As of now we are practicing and getting ready to start gigging this spring. I know there will be times that things do not go my way but, I do not let it get me down. I may be chasing a dream but it is my honest opinion that it will work out in the end.

 

Whew, that was alot to type. Sorry for all the babbling. If you did read all of this. Thanks

 

 

The only person that can stop you is yourself.......

[BlueStrat]

The only person that can stop you is yourself.......

 

Um... well. I'd have to say maybe the FIRST person who can stop you is yourself, but certainly not the only one. If sheer tenacity were the only criteria, there'd be a whole lot more successful bands out there. It's not quite the same thing as plugging away until you get your master's degree, or finding a way to buy that car. With music, though, it's much like saying "I'm going to be an actor for a living!" (or writer, or painter, fill in the blank with the artistic pursuit of your choice). So much of the outcome depends on so many factors outside your control. That's why there are so few who actually do it, because even with all the preparation in the world, you still have to contend with luck and chance.

[HoHum]

klubjunk & Hydrospin

 

You guys have already won half the battle. Keep it up, no one said it's easy but with attitudes like yours, your both sure to get what you want out of life!

[HoHum]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat The only person that can stop you is yourself....... Um... well. I'd have to say maybe the FIRST person who can stop you is yourself, but certainly not the only one. If sheer tenacity were the only criteria, there'd be a whole lot more successful bands out there. It's not quite the same thing as plugging away until you get your master's degree, or finding a way to buy that car. With music, though, it's much like saying "I'm going to be an actor for a living!" (or writer, or painter, fill in the blank with the artistic pursuit of your choice). So much of the outcome depends on so many factors outside your control. That's why there are so few who actually do it, because even with all the preparation in the world, you still have to contend with luck and chance.

 

 

That attitude will get you nowhere in life. There is no such thing as luck, and chance is brought on by you, the only factors in the longrun is how serious you are about what you want in life. EVERYTHING depends on you and you alone, anyone else you meet along the way who can help you is a result of your actions.

[EcHoplex]

There is no such thing as luck, and chance is brought on by you, the only factors in the longrun is how serious you are about what you want in life. EVERYTHING depends on you and you alone, anyone else you meet along the way who can help you is a result of your actions.

 

 

Hohum -

 

You're absolutely right about that. At first, I didn't want to believe that but, it's true. Actions do determine reality. Anyway, thanks for that. Sometimes I need a good swift kick in the ass. Best of luck to you.

[Kingnome]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat That's why there are so few who actually do it, because even with all the preparation in the world, you still have to contend with luck and chance.

 

 

I'd have to agree with this. So many variables that are out of a person's control. Sure, you can go through life focused on your "dream" of success, and make all the right choices about girls to date, jobs to take, places to live, schools to attend, but LIFE HAPPENS TO EVERYONE. Cars break down, phone numbers and e-mail addresses get lost, CDs misplaced, club owners get a case of the ass, your big connection turns out to be the father of the guy whose ass you just kicked, etc. Money or benefits become an issue, your girlfriend gets tired of you bumming gas money, your mom gets tired of doing your laundry, your dad thinks a thirty-year-old shouldn't be living in any basement, let alone HIS basement, and on and on.....

 

It's nice and "Disney" to think that if you believe in yourself fairy tales can come true, but it's closer to the truth to say that hard work and planning for opportunity is only half the battle.

 

It still won't get you past security at

FREAKIN' HUGE RECORDS, INC.

[Hydrospin]

There will always be the issue of luck and chance. Things falling apart, connections going bad, and so on.

 

Personaly I have never been considered a "Lucky guy" Some of you may know someone that is always lucky, right?

 

But, I have never failed at anything goal or project I have set out to do period. This may sound like a bold statement but it is true.

I am probably the most persistent person I know. I do not stop until I am satisfied. This has always worked for me in the past.

And will not change. Regardless of what people say, regardless of my road blocks I keep going.

 

The fame the fortune the people, this is just a bonus for me.

Like I said I am in it for something different. I want something different I crave something with more meaning. I am sick of the every day grind. Don't take this the wrong way.

I have a wonderful girlfried that backs me all the way, we own our home, and we make a decent living. I am happy with this aspect of my life. And I do have "backups" if I fail.

 

I may a bit of a optimist at times but.

I really think that you can do anything you want if the dedication and will power is there. You decide your own level of commitment, your put in the time. If what you do is honest, heart felt, and shows real emotion it will payoff in the end.

 

When I stand in front of the mic with my guitar I am a different person. I am not who I am in my everyday life. It is the only way I have found to express my self as a whole. Making a album is a true art form to me. From the artwork to the order of the tracks.

It is a expression of me and what I have been through. I am not saying that the things I have gone through are horrific or require special attention. But it is an expression of myself.

 

Or, I'll end up like Ed Wood, with the exception of making some adult movies.

 

 

 

[HoHum]

Originally posted by Kingnome I'd have to agree with this. So many variables that are out of a person's control. Sure, you can go through life focused on your "dream" of success, and make all the right choices about girls to date, jobs to take, places to live, schools to attend, but LIFE HAPPENS TO EVERYONE. Cars break down, phone numbers and e-mail addresses get lost, CDs misplaced, club owners get a case of the ass, your big connection turns out to be the father of the guy whose ass you just kicked, etc. Money or benefits become an issue, your girlfriend gets tired of you bumming gas money, your mom gets tired of doing your laundry, your dad thinks a thirty-year-old shouldn't be living in any basement, let alone HIS basement, and on and on..... It's nice and "Disney" to think that if you believe in yourself fairy tales can come true, but it's closer to the truth to say that hard work and planning for opportunity is only half the battle. It still won't get you past security at FREAKIN' HUGE RECORDS, INC.

 

 

Or you can look at it like this....

 

That for every car that breaks down, someone gets a new one.

 

For every crabass club owner, theirs one that pays you a extra tip for a good night.

 

Your big connection turned out to be the kids father you just saved from drowning.

 

If you give up because a phone number or email got lost then you certainly have no will at all.

 

Your mother? DO YOUR OWN LAUNDRY!

 

And if you are 30 and still living in your fathers basement then you are not going to make it in any walk of life.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The reason only a few make it is because most don't believe they can. The glass half empty or full?

 

Remember, for every road block there is a detour, usually many alternative routs

[HoHum]

Originally posted by EcHoplex Hohum - You're absolutely right about that. At first, I didn't want to believe that but, it's true. Actions do determine reality. Anyway, thanks for that. Sometimes I need a good swift kick in the ass. Best of luck to you.

 

EcHoplex,.. I think I need to step back, I'm turing into Tony Robbins! I'm not here to preech, Music is so wonderful, It's important for people to not give up.

[EcHoplex]

I'm not here to preech, Music is so wonderful, It's important for people to not give up.

 

True. Everyone here has had something valuable to add to the thread. I think the main thing is, be willing to adjust goals and make assessments from time to time while in pursuit of your goals. Life never ceases to throw curves at us all.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by HoHum That attitude will get you nowhere in life. There is no such thing as luck, and chance is brought on by you, the only factors in the longrun is how serious you are about what you want in life. EVERYTHING depends on you and you alone, anyone else you meet along the way who can help you is a result of your actions.

 

 

 

This sounds wonderful but it is naive to think you can control everything about and everyone who can determine your music career. Ask anyone who has made it and they all say the same thing-they had the goods, sure, and were prepared, but they just happened to be in the right place at the right time and got heard by the right guy. You could not orchestrate that in a million years. They acknowledge that luck had a great deal to do with it. For every guy who makes it, there are 20 or 30 who work just as hard, are just as talented and whose songs are just as good who never hook up with the right people, and not for lack of trying. I once had a shot with an A&R guy at MCA records back in the early 80s, and right before we were going to have a meeting with the producers, he was fired for personal misconduct, and all of his prospects were dropped. By your logic, I guess I should have been able to prevent that.

 

I have a friend here where I live I used to gig with. He started doing a swing band back in ther mid-90s when it first started getting hot. He sent a CD to all his family members, including his siter, who (unbeknownst to him) happened to be good friends with a gal who had just been hired as a casting director for a broadway play. Riding in the car to go shopping one day, his sister popped the CD in. The other gal heard it, liked it, and mentioned she was casting a play about a bunch of swing guys. Next thing you know, my friend gets a phone call, gets flown to New York where he is informed that some of his music is going to be used in the play if that's okay with him, and they needed someone to play the emcee and bandleader in the play. He auditioned and got the role, and spent almost 3 years in a Broadway play in NY. Now, did he plan any of it? Nope. In fact, had he tried, he likely would not have made that happen in a lifetime. It was just the random convergence of events that led to that success. Now, you can believe what you want, that's okay with me, but I know what I'ves seen and what I've been personally told by pros I've known about luck in the past 33 years. But if you really think you can do it and it's all up to you with no luck involved, I'll look for you on MTV in a year or so promoting your platinum album. If it's all up to you, you should be able to make that happen.

[Treves]

I think this thread is turning into dueling ideologies ("Work hard! You never know what'll turn up!" "No, work hard and plan everything!")

 

I like to fall back on my favorite Ben Franklin quote: "I find that the harder I work, the luckier I get."

[BIGD]

Are some of you guys taking mind altering drugs? What Bluestrat is saying is completely logical. You should work hard because it can help, but when it comes to the music industry, you need breaks REGARDLESS of how hard you work. I don't know why you guys keep arguing this. It's like you've been to some Tony Robbins seminar and he has you brain washed. Jeez-o-criminy.

[BryanMichael]

Yes, work hard, be prepared-if you go back and read my original posts I was making the suggestion that "being prepared" could be by working in a music store, learning to read charts, gigging yer ass off, learning to sing, etc. But no amount of working hard will automatically MAKE IT HAPPEN. It's very hard to plot out a "real world" plan for success with people that are only interested in persuing a "dream".

 

Peace,

B