Pitch correction cheating or an everday tool?

[Demonlight]

Love her or hate her (her music I mean; by most accounts she is a very nice person) the girl can *sing*.

 

But still I seriously doubt if she is as pitch perfect as a machine..

 

Also if you have to get autotune to yank your voice around, you have failed... Do it again...

 

 

HERE IS THE EXAMPLE IT IS F*** HILARIOUS..

[RobertS]

Why use technology to "fix" your pitch, when you can use it to perfect your pitch intead?

There are a lot of ways to fix a vocal performance, just like photoshop can be used to doctor photographic images. But the singer remains just as flawed as before the correction.

 

Take the time to train your ear, and then learn to connect your ear to your vocal cords.

Here is a great tool for doing that:

http://freeonlinesinginglessons4u.com/Perfect-Pitch-Training.html

[Demonlight]

Why use technology to "fix" your pitch, when you can use it to perfect your pitch intead? There are a lot of ways to fix a vocal performance, just like photoshop can be used to doctor photographic images. But the singer remains just as flawed as before the correction. Take the time to train your ear, and then learn to connect your ear to your vocal cords. Here is a great tool for doing that: http://freeonlinesinginglessons4u.com/Perfect-Pitch-Training.html

 

Lol I know how to sing buddy also I work with professional well paid singers, but none of them are perfect..

 

I have been a guitarist for 12 years and done more scale runs than I care to remember.. I know a note when I hear one and I know what note it should be played.. I'm also classically trained and do music, music theory and was trained to do audio engineering / music performance as my major and I also do it for a living.. Now including singing..

[Jersey Jack]

But still I seriously doubt if she is as pitch perfect as a machine..

 

But, again, what is so interesting about being as perfect as a machine?

 

Remember that humanity is incompatible with perfection. The more perfect, the less human--and the less interesting. As David Byrne once wrote: "Heaven is a place, where nothing ever happens." Or Tolstoy: "All happy families resemble one another, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." What's interesting is the struggle for perfection; what makes great art is the peculiar way that each artist fails. Leonard Cohen: "There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in."

 

Listen to some Neil Young....It's all there.

[kwyn]

Question: how does pitch correction work in real time? For exsmple maybe the song I'm singing is in G but there is a note or 2 off the scale. Will the pitch correct change my note?

 

Also, what is the point of a chromatic setting in pitch correction? Wouldn't that mean the software thinks all 12 notes are good? So what would it correct? When you're between half steps?

 

Sorry. Don't know much about singing, and I'm awful, so I'm very interested in pitch correction tools.

 

THX!!!

[Demonlight]

But, again, what is so interesting about being as perfect as a machine? Remember that humanity is incompatible with perfection . The more perfect, the less human--and the less interesting. As David Byrne once wrote: "Heaven is a place, where nothing ever happens." Or Tolstoy: "All happy families resemble one another, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." What's interesting is the struggle for perfection; what makes great art is the peculiar way that each artist fails . Leonard Cohen: "There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in." Listen to some Neil Young....It's all there.

 

I partially agree with you, Neil young is an old school singer out of touch with the current market and also only represents a very, very small share in the consumer market... Masses of yester year singers would bow to pressure and be sent through the machine nowaday's.. They just wouldn't cut it other wise. Especially the younger end of the market have been brought up with this since the early 80's / late 70's when pitch correction was going on even then, they don't know any different and it's odd to them not to have what has become a natural evolution..

 

I have heard ton's of famous old school singers some close, but none of them ever like the vocal track's they produce today... Because it's beyond human reach.

 

I have my own studio and could comp a take for the next couple of months if I choose to do so, but why?

 

It boils down to this.. In today's market especially as it is so competitive, A) Do you have a choice not to sound perfect?

 

B) With time restraints and budget's getting smaller, musicians and labels together why would you spend so much time going to the hassle.. If the tone and the feeling is right and your pretty much close to it anyway, why not tidy it up to get the best possible results?

 

Plus with the clarity of mixes nowaday's any small imperfection is easily scrutanised..

 

On the other hand I can still sing my song's live, you won't notice more than a bit of a slight dull note here and there.. Live you can get away with it and I really get complimented for my live singing..

 

Not like most of the pop singers out there.. Damn it why am I not going anywhere?? Need to leave the metal me thinks.. Go mainstream

[Demonlight]

 

Question: how does pitch correction work in real time? For exsmple maybe the song I'm singing is in G but there is a note or 2 off the scale. Will the pitch correct change my note? Also, what is the point of a chromatic setting in pitch correction? Wouldn't that mean the software thinks all 12 notes are good? So what would it correct? When you're between half steps? Sorry. Don't know much about singing, and I'm awful, so I'm very interested in pitch correction tools. THX!!!

 

 

What software generally does is snap the note to the nearest semitone, if you are far out you can manually put it in place but it may be noticeable... You should always try to get as close as possible before thinking of using autotune / Melodyne, or people will notice and you will sound like some crap singer trying to sound good.

 

If you are doing it live, it can be even more noticeable when you go out of tune badly and the facility grabs your voice and snaps it to your desired key, You will get robotic artifacts. Generally Chromatic pitching doesn't work well live unless you have a bucket load of money to spend on some decent hardware like an eventide..

 

No matter which way you look at it, if you want it to sound like your not cheating or a robot you still have to be a good singer.

[tehJESSEH]

Before I contribute anything to this thread, let me just say that have used autotune and plan to continue to use it. Pitch is a problem for me and I already have enough trouble trying to get vocal takes with a tone I like, phrasing I like, power I like etc. I'm not a trained singer so I struggle with these problems... I do plan on taking lessons.

 

My opinion: autotune, in pretty much any shape or form, is acceptable. The RnB use of autotune now is an "artistic" stylization more than anything else, including "fixing" someone's voice. The use of autotune on pop singers is something that is not only an industry standard, but an industry necessity. I would be willing to bet that even the most talented, most praised and most recognized pop singer has their vocal takes autotuned to some degree. Having had experience with it, I have realized that it really does exactly as advertised: corrects the pitch of the vocal take, but does not detract from the tonality or character of the voice. If you can notice it, it isn't done right. OR, if you can notice it, the singer isn't good to begin with. Autotune cannot fix a bad vocal take. It can only make a good take, better.

 

I like using autotune because it makes the take feel tighter, more controlled, and overall more polished. The ironic thing is that I play indie music, where virtually ANY vocal style flies and any mistake made can be left in for artistic purposes (happy accidents). But the bulk of the recordings I have done have been covers and therefore, autotune has been used.

 

Demonlight, you got any examples of projects where you've used autotune?

[Demonlight]

I have done some mixes where I have used it before, I would have to ask for band's permission before posting.. I suppose I could whip up a quick track and post it..

[DeadNight Warrior]

Well I do production and engineering anything to make money, so I ran my voice through melodyne a fair few times to see the results, out of a thousand notes I was nearly a semitone out on 5 of them.

 

Nearly a semitone? If you're hitting notes nearly a semitone from what it should be, I'd find it pretty hard to call that 99.5% accuracy in anything but the most irrelevant sense.

[grace_slick]

I agree, I like Fleetwood mac but still if it was recorded today for the consumer market.. People would be like what the hell is this? Why do the vocals sound weird? Especially the teen to mid 30's market that have been listening to active pitch and relative note length / elastic audio editing all there life... Point I'm getting at is it's been going on for so long now in Pop / Rock / Metal / Country every genre of the mass consumer market, that it doesn't sound right not to do it ..

 

I don’t think so at all. They just sound like normal, good-singer people if you ask me. Not EVERY song is auto-tuned obviously these days…not EVERYONE listens ONLY to pre-pubescent Justin Biebers and that hideous girl who has a song on that other thread about party party fun fun…*vomit*

 

And if they DO truly only want auto-tuned and “perfect” sounding voices? Then I refuse to conform and I’ll just sing and make music for my own private enjoyment and the enjoyment of anyone else who feels the same.

 

Also, I LOVE the quote from Leonard Cohen about everything having cracks and that’s how the light gets in. Gorgeous and true! I consider “perfect” in terms of singing and vocals and music to be something which moves a person to some sort of state in their mind and ears and heart…a state of bliss, extreme overwhelming happiness or just sheer emotion…and it’s really got nothing to do with having 99.5% of notes correct.

[staticsound]

The machines have become self-aware

[KingOfBling]

Don't worry folks, I'm coming in here with the bottom-line.

 

If a record company decides to sign you to a label & make you a record, you WILL use autotune. That's just how it is. The engineers WILL fix a note here or there. You will NOT record direct to tape, and you WILL use protools with all the nifty plugins.

 

If you finance your own record, why the hell not use autotune to fix a note here or there. It's a tool, get over it.

 

If you record yourself by yourself on your home PC, you can do whatever you want.

 

If you practice your arpeggios, scales and licks, you WILL NOT use autotune. That is an order.

[amx13]

I just cant wait for the day they stop over-using it on every damn song on the radio to get that robot-like voice, I am so sick of that

[KingOfBling]

well that ain't gonna happen my man.

[amx13]

well, Glam Rock only lasted a few years...(long ones though), so theres always hope

[rockinrobby]

I think the more crazy someone looks in their Avatar? The more they need pitch correction... And based on that? There are some people here who need it? "A lot..."

[jvardon]

How bout the avatar-less people?

[Jersey Jack]

I partially agree with you, Neil young is an old school singer out of touch with the current market and also only represents a very, very small share in the consumer market... It boils down to this.. In today's market especially as it is so competitive, A) Do you have a choice not to sound perfect? ...

 

You know, I think we're simply looking at autotune from different perspectives. I agree with you that mass market success requires autotuned vocals; it's just that I don't much like today's commercially successful music. And it's not simply that I'm an old curmudgeon who wants to turn back the clock to the good old days, it's that the sound quality of today's successful recordings--for all their perfection--is noticeably inferior to that of older recordings. In this area autotune joins forces with hopped-up volume and extreme compression to create music that is perfect (in some robotic sense) but at the cost of dynamics, of "air" in the mix. One can't breathe inside a Justin Bieber or Britney Spears recording.

 

Now Britney and the Biebz are extreme cases, but almost all commercially successful music suffers from this syndrome--loud, compressed, and perfected. And I personally have nothing against the use of autotune (though I prefer it very light or very heavy--where it's obviously an effect); it's just that I'm troubled by what autotune stands for.

 

I'm not a purist--I have nothing against comping vocals, for example. In the same way I've made my peace with digital sound processing.

 

I fully realize that these mass market values have carried the day. But from my little corner of the world, I can say "no" to these values. Being "out of touch" may have its benefits. Luckily, I'm not interested in breaking into full-time showbiz, let alone the Top 10!

 

If you want to hear what good recordings sound like, check out John Mellencamp's latest, produced by T-Bone Burnett. Lot's of air in the mix.

 

:soapbox: [end of rant]

[Demonlight]

 

Hell Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.. The day's of talented people doing emotional songs has disappeared.. I have singers pride if nothing else, I enjoy being able to sing without help from a machine... That's why I enjoy doing it live, some of the songs I enjoy have some of the crappiest recording qualities... But as a musician I have to pay the bills

 

Problem with technology is now everyone is doing it, you have to wade through the crap to get to something good.. Which alot of time's people can't be bothered.

[staticsound]

This is the thread that never ends!...this dude could use some auto-tune bty

 

[video=youtube;EHyuMwqS_ms]

[KingOfBling]

 

Problem with technology is now everyone is doing it, you have to wade through the crap to get to something good.. Which alot of time's people can't be bothered.

 

 

there's always been 99% crap for 1% good stuff. just internet makes everything more prevalent

[tehJESSEH]

 

there's always been 99% crap for 1% good stuff. just internet makes everything more prevalent

 

 

I want to believe wholeheartedly this is true... being young, and growing up with the internet as a huge part of my life, I wonder if it is true? I'm inclined to believe that it is, but another part of me sees the internet as the culprit in the first place of the gratuitous amounts of crap that's floating around.

[KingOfBling]

 

I want to believe wholeheartedly this is true... being young, and growing up with the internet as a huge part of my life, I wonder if it is true? I'm inclined to believe that it is, but another part of me sees the internet as the culprit in the first place of the gratuitous amounts of crap that's floating around.

 

 

nah, if you can get actual recordings of radio shows in the 70s, 90% of the bands sucked then too. for every Led Zep and Who, there were 80 one-hit wonder second-rate clones.

 

same with elvis, in the 50s, there was Elvis, Buddy Holly, and a few others, but an assload of poor imitators who suck suck suck.

 

i suspect the only time things were different were back in the time of beethoven and mozart. if you couldn't write {censored}in symphonies by the time you were 14, they found a new career choice for you. either you had it or you didn't, and if you didn't, you didn't keep trying to "make it" because you were absolutely forced to find something new to do.

[JohnBenussi]

 

Well the art of pitch correction has been around for nearly 40 years in some shape or form.. E.g. Varispeed, Eventide, Autotune, Melodyne. After most big produced records for many years getting treatment, in some form or another do you think it is now an everday tool? Or do you think it should still be disregarded? Myself, I'm quite lucky I probably have a 99.5% hit rate with my pitch ( and the rest is probably not noticeable).. I recorded my Demo with no autotune but that .5% may be what stands between success and failure as we now live in a world of superhuman sounding vocalists. As a vocalist you may be an excellent singer but can you do it without any engineering aid? Does it bother you? Do you think recordings sounded better with slight mistakes e.g the 60's an 70's?

 

 

Dude, it's cheating no bones about it.

If you can't sing a song on your own because you're either tone deaf, failed to practice long and hard enough or just generally

have {censored}ty pitch: auto tune/pitch correction shouldn't be used.

 

If you're slightly flat or sharp but reasonably in tune a judge wouldn't call you out for that.

Alicia Keys can't hit those notes she's always flat. It just means you haven't practiced enough.

 

Although you can't sing perfectly in just one take naturally, I feel it takes practice, time and effort.